Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #19

[Lalalacasbah]

No lashings for this please, I'm not being negative about LE here, it's just kind of weird. I would think this info is current and not a clerical error like the crime map, perhaps I'm misinterpreting this info also. Curious to hear if others read the info differently…

CPS website has crime stats like a 2014 Excel file and then 2014 monthly stats in PDF formats. Now, the excel spreadsheet does not have the category 'homicide' on it, but has Violence 'Other' (non-domestic), does homicide fall under this category or is homicide not on this list??? On the screenshot AF=June and AG=July. I find it strange homicide is not on this, which could be the case so nothing weird about it…The screenshot is for Parkhill neighborhood.


Now the monthly PDF stats…June 2014 is missing (of course the one I want to see the most, it's a duplicate of July).

So I took screenshots of May and July.
- May had zero 1st degree homicides, with year to date=9
- July had one 1st degree homicides, with year to date=11
- So that would only make one 1st degree homicide in June, why one and not two??

These PDFs are updated monthly, I don't get the reason!




http://www.calgary.ca/cps/Pages/Statistics/Calgary-Police-statistical-reports.aspx

 

[Lalalacasbah]

from:
http://www.canada.com/story.html?id=ea30b158-07ed-4c89-a7ce-dffa730d8c19



According to friends/family, she was known to be crack addicted. Not much of a stretch into street work, but ??

http://www.canada.com/story.html?id=991e3730-c59a-4bf0-9829-e5033683ac4a



I don't recall the reference to chemical industry .. she had worked in secretarial, waitressing, and had taken a legal assistant course at SAIT in 2004.

Thanks sillybilly, so much info, so hard to remember what was discussed and read in MSM. I'm probably getting mixed up about her connected to chemicals, I wonder what company she worked for.

So we don't know for sure if she worked in the sex trade, if she was known on the streets she might have been mistaken for one, but hard to say.

 

[LoisLane]

No lashings for this please, I'm not being negative about LE here, it's just kind of weird. I would think this info is current and not a clerical error like the crime map, perhaps I'm misinterpreting this info also. Curious to hear if others read the info differently…

CPS website has crime stats like a 2014 Excel file and then 2014 monthly stats in PDF formats. Now, the excel spreadsheet does not have the category 'homicide' on it, but has Violence 'Other' (non-domestic), does homicide fall under this category or is homicide not on this list??? On the screenshot AF=June and AG=July. I find it strange homicide is not on this, which could be the case so nothing weird about it…The screenshot is for Parkhill neighborhood.
View attachment 63607

Now the monthly PDF stats…June 2014 is missing (of course the one I want to see the most, it's a duplicate of July).

So I took screenshots of May and July.
- May had zero 1st degree homicides, with year to date=9
- July had one 1st degree homicides, with year to date=11
- So that would only make one 1st degree homicide in June, why one and not two??

These PDFs are updated monthly, I don't get the reason!

View attachment 63608
View attachment 63609

Looks like an administrative error. I think it is sloppy. I wonder if they would correct it if it was brought to their attention.

ETA.. CPS would probably just tell us to refer to the disclaimer.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Looks like an administrative error. I think it is sloppy. I wonder if they would correct it if it was brought to their attention.

Probably is but two clerical errors?

Didn't some of us on WS think there should be 3 homicides on the crime map but there's only 2? Then, only one 1st degree homicide for the month of June? I wish I could see June's PDF report for clarification, it would help.

If the 'Violence Other (non-domestic)' category on the excel spreadsheet means the same as homicide, then the spreadsheet matches the PDF - One in July and zero in May. So that would mean no errors I would think...I might compare Aug/Sept to see if they match also.

 

[LoisLane]

Probably is but two clerical errors?

Didn't some of us on WS think there should be 3 homicides on the crime map but there's only 2? Then, only one 1st degree homicide for the month of June? I wish I could see June's PDF report for clarification, it would help.

If the 'Violence Other (non-domestic)' category on the excel spreadsheet means the same as homicide, then the spreadsheet matches the PDF - One in July and zero in May. So that would mean no errors I would think...I might compare Aug/Sept to see if they match also.

I will look at it tomorrow as well. I may as well shoot of a message to them and point it out...unless you would like to.

I am overly grumpy about all this tonight and am reflecting again. When I look back at articles and statements and past cases I can't help but think this court case is going to be a disaster.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I will look at it tomorrow as well. I may as well shoot of a message to them and point it out...unless you would like to.

I am overly grumpy about all this tonight and am reflecting again. When I look back at articles and statements and past cases I can't help but think this court case is going to be a disaster.

Well, I'm thinking I'm reading the stats wrong…I'd definitely need someone else's fresh eyes to check!

Actually, maybe the homicides aren't under the Parkhill jurisdiction for stats, I look on a google map and maybe the L's house can fall under another neighborhood in the stats aspect which is probably the case here. The L's homicides are probably listed somewhere under a different area maybe….but….I still think fresh eyes would help.

I really hope this court case isn't a disaster, hopefully the truth will come out whatever it is.

And I hope your grumpy time passes LL!

 

[LoisLane]

Well, I'm thinking I'm reading the stats wrong…I'd definitely need someone else's fresh eyes to check!

Actually, maybe the homicides aren't under the Parkhill jurisdiction for stats, I look on a google map and maybe the L's house can fall under another neighborhood in the stats aspect which is probably the case here. The L's homicides are probably listed somewhere under a different area maybe….but….I still think fresh eyes would help.

I really hope this court case isn't a disaster, hopefully the truth will come out whatever it is.

And I hope your grumpy time passes LL!

The crime map was specific to Parkhill so if they jump neighborhoods that is some strange organization of the stats. Was the spreadsheet you posted part of the crime map? Fresh eyes and fresh attitude from me tomorrow.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Since you reposted the moderator's post, why is it so difficult for some to allow opposing views? I'm not really sure why you are posting this link of CP's. I do not believe that I have been disrespectful of someone else's opinion. I only ask that opinion be stated as opinion and not as fact. Thank you. BBM.

Yes, I'm curious to why the mod's post has been reposted? Those of us that are considering other possibilities have been heavily challenged regarding any opposing views, wholeheartedly and vehemently, the posting poster being one of the most critical of any opposing or different theories. Seems to be a big contradiction here. JMO

 

[otto]

I think Otto did a map of where she was found in relation to the Garland acreage. It was REALLY close IIRC.

The one criminology fact that keeps creeping into my blonde brain, is that murderers don't generally start off with a pre-meditated, triple murder that includes a very innocent child. They generally have a history of violent crime or at the very least, some indication of possible violent psychopathy. Everything we have uncovered does not correlate to such predisposition.

I am glad this other possible case has been re-introduced here... Perhaps it is a viable and productive angle to sleuth.

This is the location where Helena was found. Based on the roads that were named, I placed a marker more or less where she may have been found. After making the map, I wondered if she was found closer to the patterned area on Twp Rd 280 - which represents water.

"Two months after Mihaljevic’s remains were found in a field near Airdrie, people still call her cellphone number to hear the recorded voice mail message. That Mihaljevic’s cellphone remains active months after her disappearance and death is just one more troubling aspect of the mystery surrounding her violent death."

http://jasonvanrassel.wordpress.com/unsolved/

 

[otto]

It's funny, I always pictured you as a blonde - not in the stereotypical way.
[emoji12]

Either someone on a desktop with faster searching capabilities or Otto himself can re-post that map showing where she was found. IIRC, there were other bodies found close by as well.

Another body was found on the South edge of Airdrie. Helena is the 2007 body that police were investigating in connection with Garland. For some reason, I didn't include the name of the other victims.

 

[otto]

It is possible that DG may not have committed murder. He has been accused, but we don't know yet. Whenever a person is accused of a heinous crime, LE would be remiss if they didn't check out the possibility the accused may have been involved in other, yet unsolved, crimes, kind of like when the accused was arrested in the Hannah Graham case, they found that his DNA may be connected with another unsolved rape case, for which that accused has now also been charged. LE already has clues from previous unsolved crimes and they try to find links to the accused. We haven't since heard that anything was found to link DG to HM, or any other murder, which linking in other cases seems to happen quickly. The fact that DG seems to have kept his nose clean since his 1992 and 1998 charges around 2 decades ago, and that those charges were minor in comparison to the new charges, and that no violence was involved, does lead one to wonder, doesn't it.

Garland had weapons and assault charges, but he had never been convicted for violence. http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...dparents-has-well-honed-sense-of-entitlement/

I doubt that he stayed out of trouble, instead I think he got better at not getting caught. If his green truck had not been seen on surveillance video, police might still be looking for a suspect.

 

[otto]

What? You didn't picture me as Sam Elliott?! I tried to be incognito for awhile, but…..now I've surrendered to my blondeness and figure I'd go with Daenerys Targaryen, I can identify with her more than Sam lol!

Speaking of stereotypical, this might sound stereotypical of me to say but, I think it's quite common for certain men who might have a criminal backgrounds, lack social skills (probably with women also I'm assuming) and maybe even lack close and intimate relationships with people in general to frequent prostitutes.

I wonder if Helena was briefly involved in the sex trade at all? I know she had a job but wasn't showing up at work. I don't want to sound crass or assume every woman with a drug addiction does this, that's not what I think, I am just trying to make a connection. I think she was using crack which can lead people down a downward spiral fast.

And IIRC, didn't someone say HM also worked in the Pharmaceuticals or chemicals industry? This could also be a connection. Just brainstorming...

She was last seen at the Calgary Stampede on July 7, 2006. She probably was using crack cocaine again. She had pawned her things to pay for drugs, so she may have reached that point where she turned to prostitution to pay for drugs.

She had completed a legal assistant program at SAIT, but she stopped showing up for work due to cocaine addiction. There's no information that I can find suggesting that as a legal assistant she work in the pharmaceutical industry. In fact, with a drug addiction problem, that would be a very unlikely place for her to work.

 

[otto]

And I was actually responding to LL's post about some of us jumping the gun and assuming that it was blood being cleaned off the walls when it could've been something else (like the purple stuff).

It was more of a speculation of what would trigger JO to call 911 if there was no blood or only a small amount of blood, not enough to think a crime happened. So that's when I tossed out some things that might trigger someone to know something's off.

I don't want you two lovebirds fighting, so settle down!

According to the neighbour of Nathan's parents; the man that started a fundraiser, and whose brother's company used Vieworx Technology in helicopter searches, it was a bloody crime scene.

"Greg moved to Calgary in 2005 and lives next door to Nathan’s parents, Rod and Jennifer O’Brien. ...

“You always hear people say, ‘Our worst fear is outliving our child,’ and you know in this case it’s even compounded. I mean, you start with June (30), Jen goes to pick up Nathan and there’s lots of blood and no one there. And that’s where it starts and then for two weeks…you have some hope and then you don’t have hope,” said Greg."

http://www.dailyheraldtribune.com/2014/07/24/gp-company-aiding-police-in-murder-investigation

 

[otto]

No lashings for this please, I'm not being negative about LE here, it's just kind of weird. I would think this info is current and not a clerical error like the crime map, perhaps I'm misinterpreting this info also. Curious to hear if others read the info differently…

CPS website has crime stats like a 2014 Excel file and then 2014 monthly stats in PDF formats. Now, the excel spreadsheet does not have the category 'homicide' on it, but has Violence 'Other' (non-domestic), does homicide fall under this category or is homicide not on this list??? On the screenshot AF=June and AG=July. I find it strange homicide is not on this, which could be the case so nothing weird about it…The screenshot is for Parkhill neighborhood.
View attachment 63607

Now the monthly PDF stats…June 2014 is missing (of course the one I want to see the most, it's a duplicate of July).

So I took screenshots of May and July.
- May had zero 1st degree homicides, with year to date=9
- July had one 1st degree homicides, with year to date=11
- So that would only make one 1st degree homicide in June, why one and not two??

These PDFs are updated monthly, I don't get the reason!

View attachment 63608
View attachment 63609

http://www.calgary.ca/cps/Pages/Statistics/Calgary-Police-statistical-reports.aspx

Perhaps the person that is responsible for updating the data is backed up. This Calgary crime map, from August 2014, shows two homicides in Parkhill.

 

[otto]

I will look at it tomorrow as well. I may as well shoot of a message to them and point it out...unless you would like to.

I am overly grumpy about all this tonight and am reflecting again. When I look back at articles and statements and past cases I can't help but think this court case is going to be a disaster.

It won't be a disaster. Whether we want to accept the information or not, police have said that they have evidence that the victims are deceased. That's step one in terms of confirming that the murders occurred. Step two is connecting those murders to the accused. The surveillance video of the truck with nothing in the truck bed is not enough to connect Garland to the murders, but if there are additional images (most likely there are) with something in the truck bed, then Garland is connected to the murders. There might be evidence that was collected from the truck, such as blood evidence. It seems obvious to me that the victims were dragged out the side door and placed in the back of the truck, so there's very likely some evidence on the truck. There could well be evidence of Garland in the house. Step three is making a connection between the victims and the Airdrie acreage. Garland was burning something after the murders, and there could be evidence in the firepit that connects the Airdrie acreage to the Parkhill murders. The last step is to offer conjecture about motive - which could relate to the Mexico condo.

Past cases in other places have nothing to do with this case. I think we should have faith in the Calgary Police Service and the Crown Prosecutor's Office.

 

[deugirtni]

Garland had I believe one weapon charge (possession of prohibited weapon) dismissed, and 'prohibited weapon' could mean many things (other than firearm), (see link below). And if a charge is 'dismissed' can we just assume he was guilty anyway and that it should have a bearing in this case? That, I believe was a charge from 1988 when he was 28? And then an assault charge in 1989 which was 'stayed', and never brought forward after that, so no convictions or presumed guilt in those regards.

One could presume that he just kept on doing bad, illegal things after spending a few months in jail in his younger years, even into middle age, without any evidence or even hearsay of that, and assume instead that he was just 'better at not getting caught'.

Or one could presume that after spending a few months in jail, he cleaned up his act and didn't get into any more trouble, grew up, got properly medicated if needed perhaps, got counselling perhaps, became involved in his own business venture, took over management of the acreage, whatever. If there was anything derogatory to dig up on DG during the years after he plead guilty to the meth lab charges, I'm certain, imho, that MSM would have dug it up to let the public know, as they have with every other derogatory thing they could find on him, including 'hearsay' about being expelled from university and the reason being cheating, even though that has not been backed up with fact as far as I have seen, but I haven't seen anything to suggest that he continued a life of petty crime, has anyone else?

It is correct that if he didn't have a green truck similar to the one seen on video, LE might still be looking along other avenues, or at different potential suspects. I'm not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing that they aren't looking, and seemed to drop other potential avenues and POIs (as LE had previously stated they were looking into) as soon as they found that DG owned a green truck. It will be sad if when the preliminary trial takes place, if it is determined there isn't enough evidence to prove guilt, or if when the trial eventually takes place, it is determined DG is not guilty.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadian_Criminal_Law/Weapons#Prohibited_Weapon (BBM)

The mens rea for offences regarding prohibited weapons, it need only be proven that either knowledge or recklessness with respect to the characteristics of the knife in question which, in fact, makes it a prohibited weapon.[2]

The test for establishing a weapon as prohibited is an objective one. The Crown does not need to prove that the possessor of the object "used or intended to use" the object as a weapon.[3]

Garland had weapons and assault charges, but he had never been convicted for violence. http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...dparents-has-well-honed-sense-of-entitlement/

I doubt that he stayed out of trouble, instead I think he got better at not getting caught. If his green truck had not been seen on surveillance video, police might still be looking for a suspect.

 

[deugirtni]

In your referenced 'step two', if evidence such as blood evidence from the missing were found in or on DG's truck, in my opinion that would be a pretty smokey gun that they found, but yet LE stated they had no smoking gun. If a video shows the truck bed 'with something in the back', how does that make DG connected to the murders?

In your 'step three', the trio may have been nowhere near that property and that wouldn't prove anything, one way or another, would it? LE may have spent boatloads of money, time, staff and other resources searching that property and still may not have found any concrete evidence. We know they took items from the property for testing, but we aren't privvy to the results, other than we have been told there is no smoking gun, and the trio has not been found. Some have said (was it you?), why would DG, if he did this, even think of taking evidence of the victims back to his own backyard, and that seems to make sense, why would he? And if he did or didn't, that doesn't make him guilty or innocent. He could have still killed the trio and dropped them in the wilderness somewhere, or he could have not had anything to do with this at all.

Regarding the Mexican condo being related to the motive.. did LE not state during one of their news videos that the condo was owned by both the Ls and a member of the G family? (I heard that with my own ears, and it was discussed here on WS, although I dont' think anyone can find that video any longer.) If we are to take LE's word for it, as you state we should, and at least one G family member's name IS on record as part owner, then your motive theory of 'no record of G ownership on the Mexican condo' kind of falls apart right there, doesn't it? So are we then back to the motive being a 7 year old patent dispute regarding a failed design? Or some other motive now?

It won't be a disaster. Whether we want to accept the information or not, police have said that they have evidence that the victims are deceased. That's step one in terms of confirming that the murders occurred. Step two is connecting those murders to the accused. The surveillance video of the truck with nothing in the truck bed is not enough to connect Garland to the murders, but if there are additional images (most likely there are) with something in the truck bed, then Garland is connected to the murders. There might be evidence that was collected from the truck, such as blood evidence. It seems obvious to me that the victims were dragged out the side door and placed in the back of the truck, so there's very likely some evidence on the truck. There could well be evidence of Garland in the house. Step three is making a connection between the victims and the Airdrie acreage. Garland was burning something after the murders, and there could be evidence in the firepit that connects the Airdrie acreage to the Parkhill murders. The last step is to offer conjecture about motive - which could relate to the Mexico condo.

Past cases in other places have nothing to do with this case. I think we should have faith in the Calgary Police Service and the Crown Prosecutor's Office.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

The crime map was specific to Parkhill so if they jump neighborhoods that is some strange organization of the stats. Was the spreadsheet you posted part of the crime map? Fresh eyes and fresh attitude from me tomorrow.

Here's the CPS website link with the all the stat docs:
http://www.calgary.ca/cps/Pages/Statistics/Calgary-Police-statistical-reports.aspx

And good idea to check, it says: "Monthly community crime statistics. You can also view the incidents on the crime map." and then the excel docs are posted below. So yeah, should be Parkhill then I guess...

 

[deugirtni]

There has been previous discussion on WS as to the validity of GH's statement regarding 'lots of blood'. The word 'lots' is subjective, and reported as something he heard. If we assume there WAS 'lots of blood', tissue, brain matter, and enough DNA for an ME to call the 3 deaths, as has been reported by some posters as being fact, then I wonder why they would hold out hope for two entire weeks, let alone for one minute?

According to the neighbour of Nathan's parents; the man that started a fundraiser, and whose brother's company used Vieworx Technology in helicopter searches, it was a bloody crime scene.

"Greg moved to Calgary in 2005 and lives next door to Nathan’s parents, Rod and Jennifer O’Brien. ...

“You always hear people say, ‘Our worst fear is outliving our child,’ and you know in this case it’s even compounded. I mean, you start with June (30), Jen goes to pick up Nathan and there’s lots of blood and no one there. And that’s where it starts and then for two weeks…you have some hope and then you don’t have hope,” said Greg."

http://www.dailyheraldtribune.com/2014/07/24/gp-company-aiding-police-in-murder-investigation

 

[Sillybilly]

Garland had I believe one weapon charge (possession of prohibited weapon) dismissed, and 'prohibited weapon' could mean many things (other than firearm), (see link below). And if a charge is 'dismissed' can we just assume he was guilty anyway and that it should have a bearing in this case? That, I believe was a charge from 1988 when he was 28? And then an assault charge in 1989 which was 'stayed', and never brought forward after that, so no convictions or presumed guilt in those regards.

One could presume that he just kept on doing bad, illegal things after spending a few months in jail in his younger years, even into middle age, without any evidence or even hearsay of that, and assume instead that he was just 'better at not getting caught'.

Or one could presume that after spending a few months in jail, he cleaned up his act and didn't get into any more trouble, grew up, got properly medicated if needed perhaps, got counselling perhaps, became involved in his own business venture, took over management of the acreage, whatever. If there was anything derogatory to dig up on DG during the years after he plead guilty to the meth lab charges, I'm certain, imho, that MSM would have dug it up to let the public know, as they have with every other derogatory thing they could find on him, including 'hearsay' about being expelled from university and the reason being cheating, even though that has not been backed up with fact as far as I have seen, but I haven't seen anything to suggest that he continued a life of petty crime, has anyone else?

It is correct that if he didn't have a green truck similar to the one seen on video, LE might still be looking along other avenues, or at different potential suspects. I'm not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing that they aren't looking, and seemed to drop other potential avenues and POIs (as LE had previously stated they were looking into) as soon as they found that DG owned a green truck. It will be sad if when the preliminary trial takes place, if it is determined there isn't enough evidence to prove guilt, or if when the trial eventually takes place, it is determined DG is not guilty.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadian_Criminal_Law/Weapons#Prohibited_Weapon (BBM)

DG was 38 years old in 1998 when he was arrested with a stolen tractor trailer unit. I don't consider 38 to be his "younger years", and IMO is one of the ballsiest (sp?) of actions I can imagine. IMO, that speaks to his arrogance and belief that he wouldn't be caught with something almost as big as a house. I believe it's very possible he continued a life of crime under much less scrutiny while living on his parents' farm.