Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #19

[Sillybilly]

There has been previous discussion on WS as to the validity of GH's statement regarding 'lots of blood'. The word 'lots' is subjective, and reported as something he heard. If we assume there WAS 'lots of blood', tissue, brain matter, and enough DNA for an ME to call the 3 deaths, as has been reported by some posters as being fact, then I wonder why they would hold out hope for two entire weeks, let alone for one minute?

I don't think the ME immediately reached a conclusion wrt any forensic evidence at the scene upon initial observations. They most likely stated there was hope until such time as forensic results could be interpreted, and such interpretation resulted in the conclusion that all 3 would be deceased.

 

[otto]

Garland had I believe one weapon charge (possession of prohibited weapon) dismissed, and 'prohibited weapon' could mean many things (other than firearm), (see link below). And if a charge is 'dismissed' can we just assume he was guilty anyway and that it should have a bearing in this case? That, I believe was a charge from 1988 when he was 28? And then an assault charge in 1989 which was 'stayed', and never brought forward after that, so no convictions or presumed guilt in those regards.

One could presume that he just kept on doing bad, illegal things after spending a few months in jail in his younger years, even into middle age, without any evidence or even hearsay of that, and assume instead that he was just 'better at not getting caught'.

Or one could presume that after spending a few months in jail, he cleaned up his act and didn't get into any more trouble, grew up, got properly medicated if needed perhaps, got counselling perhaps, became involved in his own business venture, took over management of the acreage, whatever. If there was anything derogatory to dig up on DG during the years after he plead guilty to the meth lab charges, I'm certain, imho, that MSM would have dug it up to let the public know, as they have with every other derogatory thing they could find on him, including 'hearsay' about being expelled from university and the reason being cheating, even though that has not been backed up with fact as far as I have seen, but I haven't seen anything to suggest that he continued a life of petty crime, has anyone else?

It is correct that if he didn't have a green truck similar to the one seen on video, LE might still be looking along other avenues, or at different potential suspects. I'm not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing that they aren't looking, and seemed to drop other potential avenues and POIs (as LE had previously stated they were looking into) as soon as they found that DG owned a green truck. It will be sad if when the preliminary trial takes place, if it is determined there isn't enough evidence to prove guilt, or if when the trial eventually takes place, it is determined DG is not guilty.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadian_Criminal_Law/Weapons#Prohibited_Weapon (BBM)

Given the violent nature of this crime - a home invasion and triple murder, including a 5 year old child - it's difficult to believe that this was the first time that the accused did something like this. On that basis, police are looking at other criminal offences with some similarities to determine whether the accused had a history of these types of violent offences. What police are saying is that no one suddenly becomes a premeditated triple murderer at the age of 54 ... that there must be something in his past that made him believe that not only could he commit murder, but that he could murder more than one person at the same time.

"Global News has learned that investigators are now seeing if he has links to any other violent crimes, which experts say is common in cases like this.

“If you have unsolved crimes and you have no idea who might have done them, then you have an individual who you suspect is capable of doing a range of very violent actions, then it makes sense,” says forensic psychologist Dr. Perry Sirota. “There might be a fit between what this person is suspected of doing, because of course it’s alleged now and it might fit with a pattern of crimes that remain unsolved.”

http://globalnews.ca/news/1472714/p...as-garland-has-links-to-other-violent-crimes/

After police have evidence to connect a suspect to a criminal offence, they stop looking for the suspect and focus on verifying the information. That's what happened in this case. The information has been verified, and it's just a matter of time before it will be confirmed in a court room.

The preliminary inquiry is more a less a case of laying their cards on the table. There's a possibility that Garland will waive the preliminary inquiry, and I'm pretty sure that if there is a preliminary inquiry, it will be a closed proceeding.

"[Crown Prosecutor] Parker said although a direct indictment could have been drafted, depriving Garland of a preliminary inquiry and taking the case straight to trial, he said it wasn’t advisable.

“In a case like this I was against a direct indictment,” he following the brief appearance by Garland, who did not address the court.

“It gives us [prosecutor's office] a chance to test drive some of the evidence,” he said, of calling some of the Crown’s case prior to trial."

http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/09/1...n-and-his-grandparents-alvin-and-kathy-liknes

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Perhaps the person that is responsible for updating the data is backed up. This Calgary crime map, from August 2014, shows two homicides in Parkhill.

Thanks Otto, they could be backed up, but for some reason I doubt it. The PDF files look like they represent published reports, and are complete up to Sept. 2014 and go back as far as 2009. The excel docs are posted from2012 to Aug. 2014.

Maybe a suspect has to be found guilty for the numbers to appear on the stats, but then I think it relates to the crime itself so very hard to say here.

P.S: great maps once again!

 

[Lalalacasbah]

DG was 38 years old in 1998 when he was arrested with a stolen tractor trailer unit. I don't consider 38 to be his "younger years", and IMO is one of the ballsiest (sp?) of actions I can imagine. IMO, that speaks to his arrogance and belief that he wouldn't be caught with something almost as big as a house. I believe it's very possible he continued a life of crime under much less scrutiny while living on his parents' farm.

I have to agree with sillybilly on this one….It's also not necessarily the crimes one commits, it's the behavior as well. A person who lies and schemes constantly since they were starting university, then lived as another person for so many years says a lot (to me, JMO). DG seems to be always living his life deviantly and might even enjoy doing so.

 

[otto]

In your referenced 'step two', if evidence such as blood evidence from the missing were found in or on DG's truck, in my opinion that would be a pretty smokey gun that they found, but yet LE stated they had no smoking gun. If a video shows the truck bed 'with something in the back', how does that make DG connected to the murders?

In your 'step three', the trio may have been nowhere near that property and that wouldn't prove anything, one way or another, would it? LE may have spent boatloads of money, time, staff and other resources searching that property and still may not have found any concrete evidence. We know they took items from the property for testing, but we aren't privvy to the results, other than we have been told there is no smoking gun, and the trio has not been found. Some have said (was it you?), why would DG, if he did this, even think of taking evidence of the victims back to his own backyard, and that seems to make sense, why would he? And if he did or didn't, that doesn't make him guilty or innocent. He could have still killed the trio and dropped them in the wilderness somewhere, or he could have not had anything to do with this at all.

Regarding the Mexican condo being related to the motive.. did LE not state during one of their news videos that the condo was owned by both the Ls and a member of the G family? (I heard that with my own ears, and it was discussed here on WS, although I dont' think anyone can find that video any longer.) If we are to take LE's word for it, as you state we should, and at least one G family member's name IS on record as part owner, then your motive theory of 'no record of G ownership on the Mexican condo' kind of falls apart right there, doesn't it? So are we then back to the motive being a 7 year old patent dispute regarding a failed design? Or some other motive now?

Actually, blood evidence in the truck is circumstantial evidence - not a "smoking gun".

Garland was wearing some sort of clothing during the murders, and those clothing had to be disposed of. Perhaps he put the clothing in a dumpster, and perhaps he burned them. Either way, he was wearing something when he arrived at his parent's acreage after the murders, so something from the murder scene was taken back to the Airdrie acreage.

Police went to Mexico at part of the murder investigation, and the only connection between the victims, the accused, and Mexico is a condo. Nothing about that falls apart when exploring motive.

 

[otto]

There has been previous discussion on WS as to the validity of GH's statement regarding 'lots of blood'. The word 'lots' is subjective, and reported as something he heard. If we assume there WAS 'lots of blood', tissue, brain matter, and enough DNA for an ME to call the 3 deaths, as has been reported by some posters as being fact, then I wonder why they would hold out hope for two entire weeks, let alone for one minute?

Police were waiting for evidence to be returned. Isn't it obvious that they were waiting for DNA evidence to confirm what they could see with their own eyes?

 

[otto]

Here's the CPS website link with the all the stat docs:
http://www.calgary.ca/cps/Pages/Statistics/Calgary-Police-statistical-reports.aspx

And good idea to check, it says: "Monthly community crime statistics. You can also view the incidents on the crime map." and then the excel docs are posted below. So yeah, should be Parkhill then I guess...

Here are the stats for June and July. It looks like the numbers in July reflect the murders at the end of June ... most likely because numbers are added to the stats when homicide is confirmed.

 

[otto]

No lashings for this please, I'm not being negative about LE here, it's just kind of weird. I would think this info is current and not a clerical error like the crime map, perhaps I'm misinterpreting this info also. Curious to hear if others read the info differently…

CPS website has crime stats like a 2014 Excel file and then 2014 monthly stats in PDF formats. Now, the excel spreadsheet does not have the category 'homicide' on it, but has Violence 'Other' (non-domestic), does homicide fall under this category or is homicide not on this list??? On the screenshot AF=June and AG=July. I find it strange homicide is not on this, which could be the case so nothing weird about it…The screenshot is for Parkhill neighborhood.
View attachment 63607

Now the monthly PDF stats…June 2014 is missing (of course the one I want to see the most, it's a duplicate of July).

So I took screenshots of May and July.
- May had zero 1st degree homicides, with year to date=9
- July had one 1st degree homicides, with year to date=11
- So that would only make one 1st degree homicide in June, why one and not two??

These PDFs are updated monthly, I don't get the reason!

View attachment 63608
View attachment 63609

http://www.calgary.ca/cps/Pages/Statistics/Calgary-Police-statistical-reports.aspx

BBM

The June report is available, it's just linked incorrectly in the police website. This is the correct link to the report:

http://www.calgary.ca/_layouts/coci...june-statistical-report.pdf&noredirect=1&sf=1

 

[Lalalacasbah]

BBM

The June report is available, it's just linked incorrectly in the police website. This is the correct link to the report:

http://www.calgary.ca/_layouts/coci...june-statistical-report.pdf&noredirect=1&sf=1

Thanks so much Otto!

 

[Lalalacasbah]

BBM

The June report is available, it's just linked incorrectly in the police website. This is the correct link to the report:

http://www.calgary.ca/_layouts/coci...june-statistical-report.pdf&noredirect=1&sf=1

I thought I could view this but still can't, will try again later. Are you able to take a screen shot of Homicides 'to date' for 2014 of the June report if you have time sometime? I see June has 1 homicide, but curious the # to date for 2014 also...

 

[otto]

View attachment CPS_June_2014_Crime_Report.pdf

I thought I could view this but still can't, will try again later. Are you able to take a screen shot of Homicides 'to date' for 2014 of the June report if you have time sometime? I see June has 1 homicide, but curious the # to date for 2014 also...

The June homicide count screen shot is posted in comment #667.

I've attached the report.

 

[deugirtni]

Yes, 38 not younger years for sure. Did he get convicted or plead guilty to the charge(s) relating to the tractor trailer? Do we have any idea why he stole a tractor trailer? I would love to know the details on that one.

I don't know, it seems he has had quite a few charges in his lifetime, and often people 'like that' are ones that seem to get caught all the time. And once LE 'knows' a person, imho they are more apt to keep an eye on that person, moreso than Mr. Joe Public. Sure it's very possible that he continued with a life of petty crime, and just as possible that he did not.

DG was 38 years old in 1998 when he was arrested with a stolen tractor trailer unit. I don't consider 38 to be his "younger years", and IMO is one of the ballsiest (sp?) of actions I can imagine. IMO, that speaks to his arrogance and belief that he wouldn't be caught with something almost as big as a house. I believe it's very possible he continued a life of crime under much less scrutiny while living on his parents' farm.

 

[deugirtni]

Personally, I don't think the ME reached conclusions of death at all. But my point was that if the Parkhill home was as gruesome as some have proposed, with the brain bits, tissue and massive bloodshed, I don't know why anyone wouldn't think the worst right from day one.

I don't think the ME immediately reached a conclusion wrt any forensic evidence at the scene upon initial observations. They most likely stated there was hope until such time as forensic results could be interpreted, and such interpretation resulted in the conclusion that all 3 would be deceased.

 

[deugirtni]

If blood from the victims was found in DG's truck, I'm quite certain that would be considered a really smokey gun, I don't see how it could get much more smoking than that.

We really have no clue why LE went to Mexico on this case, but nobody has said it was related to the accused. If LE had received reports of sightings or governmet had videos of people at the airport that could potentially be the trio, surely LE would follow up with those. Surely LE wouldn't discard tips and/or evidence that could relate to other potential perps, just because they believed DG was their perp?

In earlier posts you had indicated that you believed the motive would be that police went to Mexico regarding ownership, or lack thereof on official condo ownership documents. But LE had stated the ownership was shared. For LE to stated the ownership was shared amongst L family and G family, surely they had proof before stating that, and if they had proof, that blows apart the motive theory you previously held wherein the G name was missing, which fuelled DG's anger.

Actually, blood evidence in the truck is circumstantial evidence - not a "smoking gun".

Garland was wearing some sort of clothing during the murders, and those clothing had to be disposed of. Perhaps he put the clothing in a dumpster, and perhaps he burned them. Either way, he was wearing something when he arrived at his parent's acreage after the murders, so something from the murder scene was taken back to the Airdrie acreage.

Police went to Mexico at part of the murder investigation, and the only connection between the victims, the accused, and Mexico is a condo. Nothing about that falls apart when exploring motive.

 

[deugirtni]

I can accept that evidence in the home was tested on site and also sent for DNA testing to confirm if it belonged to the victims and if so, which one(s). Two weeks seems long to me for this case, to get results. Doesn't LE have a crime lab at their disposal? Would they need an ME to send evidence to a crime lab? There are multiple reasons why an ME might be called to a crime scene. I still believe that if there were enough remains on which to base 'death', those remains however small, would have been returned to the family. Aren't ME's called in potentially as a formality/requirement in the event LE believes death may have occurred? To view blood spatter perhaps? To offer opinion on... something? To offer input on protecting certain aspects of the crime scene from contamination?

I'm not of the camp believing that an ME called the deaths of the trio, because if that were possible to do, I'm 100% certain that LE would have stated that in their press release, because it would be a fact. They didn't. They instead stated their belief was based on a preponderance of evidence. If an ME called the deaths based on fact, LE would not require a preponderance of evidence, because just the fact would suffice in that regard, and it then wouldn't be a belief, it would be a fact. I understand that some are still not getting that distinction.

MOO

Police were waiting for evidence to be returned. Isn't it obvious that they were waiting for DNA evidence to confirm what they could see with their own eyes?

 

[katydid23]

Hey ya all....so sad to see that the mystery has not been solved. This is heartbreaking.

I have not kept up with this thread at all and it moves so fast. I have a stupid question. Last time I was reading here, there was a bunch of info about the possible suspect having been the one who actually invented somewthing that the male victim might have patented and that was the motive? Is that all debunked now? Was that incorrect info?

 

[deugirtni]

Welcome back katydid23! The mystery is solved for some, but not all. The accused apparently was hired by one of the victims to alter the patent design. Although the accused's sister's husband, who also happens to be the victim's son, has been quoted as saying 'the business relationship did not end on a bad note', other media and LE have stated there was a patent dispute. This was apparently 7 years ago. Apparently the accused had wanted his name to be colisted as inventor on the patent, a request which apparently was refused by the victim. It seems the patented design failed in the end anyway.

PS What is a 'Verified Juanette'? Just curious! Love your dog!

 

[Tinkerbel1]

DG was 38 years old in 1998 when he was arrested with a stolen tractor trailer unit. I don't consider 38 to be his "younger years", and IMO is one of the ballsiest (sp?) of actions I can imagine. IMO, that speaks to his arrogance and belief that he wouldn't be caught with something almost as big as a house. I believe it's very possible he continued a life of crime under much less scrutiny while living on his parents' farm.

It speaks to something alright. I don't really see DG as arrogant though...many people that commit crimes start out small, and as they get away with them move on to the next, increasingly bigger crimes. Some do become very arrogant and feel that they're above the law and perhaps that LE are stupid and they'll never get caught, but DG doesn't exude any of that to me.

Although he's been described as a ''genius'', I'm not thinking there's much genius there in the ''thought'' department...his IQ may be above-average, but really? Who thinks they can steal a tractor-trailer and not get caught...they're kind of hard to hide, and it's not like he could outrun LE in it. Who has a meth lab at their parents' property and feels that's okay? Who...if he did this, drives his vehicle past a CCTV camera several times in the neighborhood where the murders took place, and who re-uses fake id that they've already gone to jail for? How is that arrogant I wonder. It is either sheer stupidity (which I highly doubt), or he purposely does things that are going to get him caught....or....there is really something not right upstairs and he has trouble distinguishing reality from what's going on in his head. I always thought that common sense was a given...apparently it's not, and obviously he's short of some of that. He seems to me, to be in another world and not quite connected or grounded, because really not a lot of what he does makes sense.

I'm not convinced that his m/o is to commit crimes and get away with them, I think he's really got something wrong with him in how his head works. He seems to struggle with his thought processes as indicated by his question to the judge in court at the bail hearing regarding not returning to the acreage. Maybe there is some Asperger's Syndrome there? Something's not right, but I don't see him as a cold-blooded, psychopath.

If these murders were committed by DG then I'm going to say that besides the L's and NO, extended family members, as well as DG's family...DG himself may be termed a victim of sorts as well. I feel that he really got the short-end of the stick in a lot of ways as far as his brain function/thought processes go. It doesn't give him an excuse for such behaviour, but he may be as shocked as we are at this situation. JMO

 

[deugirtni]

If LE are listing the number of crimes committed, I think it makes no matter whether an accused is found guilty, or even whether there is an accused identified at all. It is merely a count of crimes which they are showing, not convicted crimes, otherwise their details would be way out of date before they are published, since it can take months and/or years to get to trial.

Thanks Otto, they could be backed up, but for some reason I doubt it. The PDF files look like they represent published reports, and are complete up to Sept. 2014 and go back as far as 2009. The excel docs are posted from2012 to Aug. 2014.

Maybe a suspect has to be found guilty for the numbers to appear on the stats, but then I think it relates to the crime itself so very hard to say here.

P.S: great maps once again!

 

[Tinkerbel1]

She was last seen at the Calgary Stampede on July 7, 2006. She probably was using crack cocaine again. She had pawned her things to pay for drugs, so she may have reached that point where she turned to prostitution to pay for drugs.

She had completed a legal assistant program at SAIT, but she stopped showing up for work due to cocaine addiction. There's no information that I can find suggesting that as a legal assistant she work in the pharmaceutical industry. In fact, with a drug addiction problem, that would be a very unlikely place for her to work.

No, that would be a GREAT place for her to work! Imagine! Anyway, there are a lot of people that have addictions that don't necessarily turn to prostitution to support their habits. Some steal, some commit fraudulent activity, some just get money from other people by asking for it, some sell drugs. It definitely sounds like she struggled with drug addiction but the lady had some brains as indicated by the completed legal assistant program. Again, here's someone that needed help and somehow fell through the cracks and she didn't deserve to have it end the way it did.