Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #19

[deugirtni]

If police were doing their job, and they had multiple reports of sightings of the trio in Mexico, or a report from a Mexican authority about something they may have been suspicious about, or a potential sighting on security footage at the border or airport, don't you think LE should go and investigate? Even if they 'believe' the trio to be dead? Or do you think that once they have a belief they should just shut out all other leads, even if they may seem to carry weight? If they disregarded those types of leads because they 'believed' the trio to be dead, then what do you suppose might happen in Court? The defence, I would think, would be able to say, 'but there were multiple sightings and you didn't even bother to follow them up, so how do you know the victims are even dead'. LE stated they were crossing t's and dotting i's. That is what they could have been referring to.

And I humbly disagree with your statement of a smoking gun. There is no good reason why the victims' blood would be in the accused's truck, it is direct evidence linking the two with the victims being transported while bloody/bleeding. To me, the evidence doesn't get much better than that for busting DG. MOO, unlike your statement which appears to be fact.

Police were reported to be in Mexico on August 5, well after the victims were confirmed deceased, so we can rule out any possibility that police were looking for victims in Mexico.

Circumstantial evidence, such as blood evidence in a truck, isn't a smoking gun. Direct evidence is a smoking gun.

 

[deugirtni]

otto in previous posts you have stated that 'the green truck is the smoking gun', even though LE has stated there IS no smoking gun.

The finding of the green truck, several times apparently, on video in the area during the crucial 12 hour period, is a 'clue', which LE followed up on, which led them to DG who has a similar truck.

I believe Tinkerbel1 was responding to your assertion that the green truck was 'the smoking gun'.

And I believe that if when LE took DG's truck for examination, they found the victims' blood in or on it, that would indeed be considered very much a 'smoking gun' (that would be pretty much enough to convince me, if I was a juror, and there was no other reason why there would be those persons' blood in his truck, which I suspect there is no other reason for).

The fact that LE has stated there IS no smoking gun even after inspecting DG's truck and even after spending over a week inspecting the G property, tells me there was no evidence strong enough to be considered a smoking gun. Instead they have little pieces of circumstantial evidence, none of which is strong hence the 'no one piece', which they had to meticulously piece together to make a story which will need to be 'test driven' at the prelim hearing. MOO.

All the words in the sentence matter. The closest thing to a smoking gun is very different from the smoking gun.
Attention to detail makes all the difference in understanding this home invasion and triple murder.

 

[deugirtni]

Not really. If it was as important a dispute, which created 'bad blood', as LE has apparently stated, surely someone would have come forward with that tip, even without the green truck clue.

Police were investigating the murder ... following the evidence of the crime scene. If they were going to investigate all the financial disputes in the Liknes couple's history, which span 20 years, it would take years before they would focus on a contract employee that did some patent design work.

 

[deugirtni]

JO seems, according to news reports, to have been very close to her mom, in fact JO reported her mom as being her best friend. JO was in the home 10 hours before the trio went missing, and 10 hours after she was last in the home and it has been written that she was there all day helping out with the 'estate sale'. JO would be a good person to ask what was different between the time of leaving the home at 10pm and returning to the home 12 hours later.

Why would items which were expected to be in the home now be in Mexico? Or items missing from the home be thought to be in Mexico? AL has a twin. Who knows where that twin was at the time the trio went missing. Was he in Mexico? Perhaps one or more of the sightings at any given location may have actually been the twin, and LE went to fetch a statement, although I'm not convinced they would have to do that in person either. They could have had him sign a statement witnessed by a lawyer instead.

I think there are all kinds of reasons that we may not even be thinking about or aware of as to why LE may have physically travelled to Mexico, but to me, one of the most very basic of reasons would be to follow up on sighting tips. To disregard those would leave them wide open for accusations of not having investigated this case fully. MOO.

When preparing documents and evidence exhibits for trial including photos, everything needs to be carefully documented by investigators.

Since the couple were planning to move to Mexico at some point and there were some possible questions regarding finances and joint ownership, the Mexico property may or may not turn out to be relevant come trial. But because it is part of the timeline, it needed to be documented to be entered into evidence. A fax or a phone call does not suffice.

The other possibility, is perhaps they were trying to nail down exactly what had been sold over that weekend, what belongings had been moved already, therefore what could be missing as a result of the crime, perhaps they needed a catalogue of all property in the condo?

IMHO, it was simple evidence gathering and ensuring proper documentation of every detail of the timeline. When the investigators take their turn on the stand, they will need to swear to the evidence and as such, they need first hand handling of said evidence.

 

[deugirtni]

I recall a statement made by LE to the effect of, it was in their list of things to do from the beginning and they were just getting to that in their timelines. Whatever it was, it must not have been a priority, for them to have left it until then.

I have no idea what the breakdown of man hours on this case is. Maybe they had sent an officer in early July and back again in August. I think it is odd that they would have made the first trip in August.

 

[deugirtni]

What do you suppose the accused has to do with Mexico?

It makes sense to me. They investigated the murder, located a suspect, processed evidence, and then arrested a suspect. What we know is that Mexico is where the evidence led detectives after the arrest. It makes sense that three weeks after the arrest they made a connection between the victims, the accused, and the condo.

It doesn't make sense that police would send someone to investigate the victim's plans to move to Mexico if there was no connection to the murder, and they couldn't know if there was a connection to the murder until they had a suspect. After the arrest, there was a clear connection between the accused, the victims, and Mexico.

 

[deugirtni]

I found this listing of 22 murders which had happened in Calgary at some point in July 2014; not sure if this will be helpful to you, if not, just pass on by! If it is what you're looking for, please let us know how these murder numbers jive with the crime statistics! (bold and numbering by me):

A TIMELINE OF KILLINGS IN CALGARY SO FAR THIS YEAR

1 - Jan. 8 — Jackson Tran, 29, is found dead in the driver’s seat of a Toyota Corolla in an alley behind Harvest Oak Gate N.E. in what police believe to be a drug-motivated killing.

2 - Jan. 19 — Dennis Barreira, 46, is found dead in his Southview home. Kyle Earl Pate-Miller, 21, and Chad William Brian Mondoux, 24, are arrested May 6 and charged with first-degree murder in Barreira’s strangulation, which police believe was motivated by robbery.

3 - Feb. 14 — Carlton Edlund, 50, staggers into the Delta Bow Valley hotel at 209 4 Ave. S.E., suffering from stab wounds police believe he received nearby. He is taken to hospital where he later dies.

4 & 5 - Feb. 15 — The bodies of husband and wife Don and Roxanne Carlson, aged 59 and 56 respectively, are found in their Lake Bonavista home. The deaths are ruled homicides, though police do not release the cause.

6 - Feb. 17 — Suryan Giama, 25, is last seen by a family member at a home in the 0-100 block of Woodview Terrace S.W. His car is found in the Britannia/Elboya area March 19. On April 28, police announced they believe Giama was murdered. On June 30, Giama’s remains are found on the Stoney Nakoda First Nation.

7 - March 8 — Juliano Crawford-Vieira, 17, is one of two teens stabbed at a house party in Braeside. He is taken to hospital, where he dies. Roland Smith, 18, and Trent Guy Hynne, 19, are each charged with one count of second-degree murder and one charge of attempted murder.

8, 9, 10, 11 & 12 - April 15 — Zackariah Rathwell, 21, Kaiti Perras, 23, Lawrence Hong, 27, Joshua Hunter, 23, and Jordan Segura, 22, are stabbed to death at a house party in Brentwood in Calgary’s worst mass murder. Matthew de Grood, 22, is later charged with five counts of first-degree murder.

13 & 14 - May 4 — Fahmida Velji-Visram, 29, and Sanjula Devi, 36, are stabbed at a home in the 6400 block of Penbrooke Dr. S.E. Devi dies at the scene and Velji-Visram dies in hospital. A third woman is taken to hospital with non-life-threatening injuries and released. On May 15, Devi’s estranged husband Hari Pal, 52, is charged with two counts of second-degree murder and one count of aggravated assault.

15 - June 20 — Gabriel Okeynan, 45, is found suffering from stab wounds outside Marlborough Mall and dies in hospital June 24. A 16-year-old is later charged with robbery and second-degree murder while a 13-year-old is charged with second-degree murder. Neither teen can be named.

16, 17 & 18 - June 30 — Alvin and Kathryn Liknes, aged 66 and 53 respectively, are reported missing from their Parkhill home, along with their five-year-old grandson Nathan O’Brien, who spent the night. During the investigation, police say they believe all three were killed, though their bodies have not been found. Douglas Garland, 54, is later charged with two counts of first-degree murder and one count of second-degree murder.

19 - July 4 — Colton James Crowshoe, 18, is last seen by friends in the Abbeydale area. On July 24, Crowshoe’s body is found in a water retention point near Stoney Tr. and 16 Ave. N.E. Police do not release the cause of death, but say they believe the case is a homicide.

20 - July 5 — Ayuen Ajak Goot, also known as Devon Goot, 18, is found unconscious in a strip mall parking long at 2936 Radcliffe Dr. S.E. and taken to hospital. He succumbs to his injuries July 15. Police say they believe it was a targeted attack and the victim was known to the suspects. Ojullo Mark Ojullo, 20, and Shannon Jabet, 19, are each charged with one count of second-degree murder.

21 - July 26 — The body of a 49-year-old woman is found in a home in the 2800 block of 14 Ave. S.W. Her son has been charged with second-degree murder.

22 - July 27 — Brian Blackkettle is found unconscious at Century Gardens in downtown Calgary. He is transported to hospital where he is pronounced dead. An autopsy confirms he was slain and on July 29 police announce it was by the hands of someone the victim knew.

Oddly, even the reporter's count at the end doesn't jive with the numbers she is quoting in the story:

Homicides by year:

2014 (so far): 20

2013: 22

2012: 18

2011: 10

2009: 24

2008: 33

http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/07/27/with-20-confirmed-calgary-homicides-in-2014-murder-rate-could-hit-level-not-seen-for-years

ETA : Additionally, I found these murders, so it appears that so far there have been 28 in Calgary, I can't find any further ones. I'd make the paragraphs shorter, but I have to get some sleep before work!

23 - August 23 - emergency crews were called to 11 Ave. and 1 St. S.W. for reports of a shooting. Arrests won’t bring Natasha Farah back, but a rapid police response means a trio believed connected to the random shooting which killed the 26-year-old woman is in custody. A fourth man is being sought for questioning, and hopefully, when he’s arrested, charges will follow and it’s case closed.

24 - September 3 - Calgary police have laid murder charges in a stabbing death late Monday and identified the victim. John Maciver, 38, was found suffering from multiple stab wounds in a parking lot in the 6200 block of Bowness Road NW around 10:45 p.m., according to police. He was rushed to hospital but later pronounced dead. A 17-year-old teen has been charged with second-degree murder. Under provisions of the Youth Criminal Justice Act, his name cannot be released.

25 - September 4 - Police have laid charges in connection to a suspicious death in the city’s southeast. Officers were called to the area of 84th Street and 17th Avenue S.E. around 4:40 a.m. on Wednesday by a man who said the passenger in his vehicle had died. When they arrived, officers found a deceased woman in the passenger seat of the man’s white truck. She has since been identified as 37-year-old Kathy Lynn Reid of Calgary, and an autopsy found she died of asphyxiation consistent with strangulation. Investigators say the driver of the vehicle was known to the victim, and that they were together from about 8:30 p.m. on Tuesday, September 2nd until the time of her death. The driver, James Edward Kruse, has been charged with first-degree murder.

26 - September 16 - Calgary’s latest murder victim was trying to evict her boyfriend when he allegedly stabbed her to death, grieving family members said Tuesday. Susan Rae Elko, 39, was knifed early Sunday afternoon in the 200 block of Holy Cross Lane S.W.

27 - October 6 - Limited details are known about a series of weekend shooting, one of them resulting in Calgary’s 27th homicide of 2014. “We are looking at the relevance of any incident to our investigation, especially if it involves a firearm,” Sgt. Doug Andrus of the CPS Homicide Unit said, Monday. Over the weekend there were two shootings on Saturday, and one late on Sunday – all in the Marlborough Park area of northeast Calgary. Police believe the victim, Jason Quinn Antonio, 39, of Calgary left his home and was shot in the 300 block of Manora Cr. NE. He was transported to a local hospital where he was pronounced dead. Though no suspects have been named police believe this was a targeted attack.

28 - October 8 - 55-year old Maqsood Ahmed was fatally stabbed while closing up his shop in northeast Calgary and fatally stabbed. CPS investigators report the victim and a woman were locking up a business located in the 4700 block of Westwinds Dr NE at about 9:40 p.m. The man was walking away from the store with cash and receipts when he was approached and attacked by two men. The suspects stabbed the man and made away with the cash. Mr. Ahmed was treated at the scene by EMS and rushed to hospital, however, he later succumbed to his injuries. The woman who is an employee of the store was uninjured in the attack. An autopsy has determined that Maqsood Ahmed died as a result of stab wounds.

I thought I could view this but still can't, will try again later. Are you able to take a screen shot of Homicides 'to date' for 2014 of the June report if you have time sometime? I see June has 1 homicide, but curious the # to date for 2014 also...

 

[otto]

LE had a suspect before July 14th. Could it be possible that LE went to Mexico prior to the arrest and discovered something that they were able to include and apply to the charges?

LE went to Mexico, that has been confirmed. LE never stated they went to check on the condo but they surely would have. They also never stated the timeline of the investigation in Mexico and if they did the MSM articles did not cover the timeline accurately enough because they were not privy to anything further besides the vague statement from the police spokesperson. Maybe it was just a safeguard and technicality after the arrest. It will be interesting to hear if anything came of it.

It seems to me that when police investigate a murder, they follow the evidence. The evidence started at the crime scene: Parkhill. That led police in several directions, including the estate sale, surveillance video, and who knows what else. The theory that someone attending the estate sale returned at the end of the night to murder the couple was a dead end, so collecting information about what was sold at the sale was a dead end. The surveillance video gave the first good lead. The led police to the Airdrie acreage, and the arrest. The next thing we learned was that the condo in Mexico was a joint Liknes/Garland purchase, and that police were in Mexico looking into the couple's plans to move there.

At every step of any investigation, police follow evidence. Police do not make random decisions such as: let's go to Mexico and see if there's a connection to the murder. It's always the other way around: there's a connection to Mexico that needs to be investigated.

The question is: why did the investigation lead to Mexico? Was it because there is a known (we know) connection between accused, the victims, and Mexico? They would not go to Mexico on a fishing expedition ... evidence led the investigation, not wild speculation. Prior to the arrest, what factual, investigative reason did police have for going to Mexico?

"Detectives with the Calgary Police Service travelled to Mexico, working with authorities there to learn more about the details of the Liknes’ plans about moving there. They have not said anything about what they found, if anything."

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/accused-in-liknes-and-o-brien-murders-in-court-1.1959334#ixzz3JIWNqMh8

 

[Slebby]

A couple of ideas to explain the Mexico trip - I agree that LE may have had to go to Mexico to obtain original or official documents as part of the timeline or background for the case.

It's also possible they went there to preempt any questions by the defence regarding the possibility the Ls were actually in Mexico as they had planned all along. Perhaps evidence to show checks were made with Mexican border patrol that the Ls had not entered Mexico at any known border crossings (roads, air or water)

Someone mentioned the possible reason for LE to make the trip to Mexico was to check that items identified as missing from the L home had not already, in fact, been moved to Mexico prior to the estate sale. Why would this matter? What if something was missing from the home, such as a large trunk or wall unit. What if the cctv cameras picked up footage of that item in the back of the truck? Perhaps later in the investigation, the evidence obtained from the G property was charred remains of a wall unit or trunk - example - the metal hinges or knobs or lock.

This would definitely be a brick by brick aspect to a case, no smoking gun, lol.

Anyway, just a little creative thinking as I kill time waiting to catch a plane.


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[Slebby]

Question about AL's twin brother - are they identical twins? Do they look alike? Has anyone seen photos of the brother?


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[news.talk]

Question about AL's twin brother - are they identical twins? Do they look alike? Has anyone seen photos of the brother?


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I cannot find any information to support whether they are 'identical' twins, but from the pictures on their FB profiles, I personally don't see much of a resemblance.

 

[news.talk]

Here is an interesting parallel to this case:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/after-years-authorities-say-family-killed-at-home/ar-AA76TX9

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I found this listing of 22 murders which had happened in Calgary at some point in July 2014; not sure if this will be helpful to you, if not, just pass on by! If it is what you're looking for, please let us know how these murder numbers jive with the crime statistics! (bold and numbering by me):



Oddly, even the reporter's count at the end doesn't jive with the numbers she is quoting in the story:



http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/07/27/with-20-confirmed-calgary-homicides-in-2014-murder-rate-could-hit-level-not-seen-for-years

ETA : Additionally, I found these murders, so it appears that so far there have been 28 in Calgary, I can't find any further ones. I'd make the paragraphs shorter, but I have to get some sleep before work!

23 - August 23 - emergency crews were called to 11 Ave. and 1 St. S.W. for reports of a shooting. Arrests won’t bring Natasha Farah back, but a rapid police response means a trio believed connected to the random shooting which killed the 26-year-old woman is in custody. A fourth man is being sought for questioning, and hopefully, when he’s arrested, charges will follow and it’s case closed.

24 - September 3 - Calgary police have laid murder charges in a stabbing death late Monday and identified the victim. John Maciver, 38, was found suffering from multiple stab wounds in a parking lot in the 6200 block of Bowness Road NW around 10:45 p.m., according to police. He was rushed to hospital but later pronounced dead. A 17-year-old teen has been charged with second-degree murder. Under provisions of the Youth Criminal Justice Act, his name cannot be released.

25 - September 4 - Police have laid charges in connection to a suspicious death in the city’s southeast. Officers were called to the area of 84th Street and 17th Avenue S.E. around 4:40 a.m. on Wednesday by a man who said the passenger in his vehicle had died. When they arrived, officers found a deceased woman in the passenger seat of the man’s white truck. She has since been identified as 37-year-old Kathy Lynn Reid of Calgary, and an autopsy found she died of asphyxiation consistent with strangulation. Investigators say the driver of the vehicle was known to the victim, and that they were together from about 8:30 p.m. on Tuesday, September 2nd until the time of her death. The driver, James Edward Kruse, has been charged with first-degree murder.

26 - September 16 - Calgary’s latest murder victim was trying to evict her boyfriend when he allegedly stabbed her to death, grieving family members said Tuesday. Susan Rae Elko, 39, was knifed early Sunday afternoon in the 200 block of Holy Cross Lane S.W.

27 - October 6 - Limited details are known about a series of weekend shooting, one of them resulting in Calgary’s 27th homicide of 2014. “We are looking at the relevance of any incident to our investigation, especially if it involves a firearm,” Sgt. Doug Andrus of the CPS Homicide Unit said, Monday. Over the weekend there were two shootings on Saturday, and one late on Sunday – all in the Marlborough Park area of northeast Calgary. Police believe the victim, Jason Quinn Antonio, 39, of Calgary left his home and was shot in the 300 block of Manora Cr. NE. He was transported to a local hospital where he was pronounced dead. Though no suspects have been named police believe this was a targeted attack.

28 - October 8 - 55-year old Maqsood Ahmed was fatally stabbed while closing up his shop in northeast Calgary and fatally stabbed. CPS investigators report the victim and a woman were locking up a business located in the 4700 block of Westwinds Dr NE at about 9:40 p.m. The man was walking away from the store with cash and receipts when he was approached and attacked by two men. The suspects stabbed the man and made away with the cash. Mr. Ahmed was treated at the scene by EMS and rushed to hospital, however, he later succumbed to his injuries. The woman who is an employee of the store was uninjured in the attack. An autopsy has determined that Maqsood Ahmed died as a result of stab wounds.

Thanks! I'll try to revisit those stats and cross reference with your findings sometime today hopefully when I can concentrate and focus, I'm usually on here trying to read and post while doing other things, hence my spelling mistakes I catch later.

 

[Hez]

Here is an interesting parallel to this case:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/after-years-authorities-say-family-killed-at-home/ar-AA76TX9

That case went unsolved for 4 years due in part to LE initially having tunnel vision, but in the wrong direction. LE assumed that the parents were somehow involved in criminal activities (possibly drug running) and they had just slipped across the border to Mexico with their kids, essentially faking their own disappearance. The family's bodies were eventually found in shallow graves in the desert in 2013. The location was 12 miles from a property formerly owned or occupied by the man who was just arrested for the murders.

 

[LoisLane]

I cannot find any information to support whether they are 'identical' twins, but from the pictures on their FB profiles, I personally don't see much of a resemblance.

I think I have seen the twin in various pictures taken in Mexico and there is one that is a close-up with him and his son on a balcony. He looks very much like his twin brother, maybe a little rounder in the face but I would say they are identical. Unless of course those are pictures of Alvin.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Here is an interesting parallel to this case:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/after-years-authorities-say-family-killed-at-home/ar-AA76TX9

The similarities between these cases are uncanny...

What leaves me unsettled is - I always thought the suspect in the Liknes case must've used a gun to overpower three people and keep them quiet. I was saddened to read in another article that the McStays were presumed to have died from blunt force trauma, so presumably no gun.

How one man can overpower two adults with an object while they desperately try to save their children is stuff of nightmares. I can't imagine how this happens, I do know, sadly this seems to happen all the time in crimes

 

[deugirtni]

Yes I recall seeing pics of them both, and if not together and not used to having to identify each separately all the time, I would say it would be easy enough to confuse the two. MOO

I think I have seen the twin in various pictures taken in Mexico and there is one that is a close-up with him and his son on a balcony. He looks very much like his twin brother, maybe a little rounder in the face but I would say they are identical. Unless of course those are pictures of Alvin.

 

[deugirtni]

Apparently the accused also hasn't been convicted yet in this trial either, and there are some that believe it would be impossible for one man, ie there are 'alternate theories' in this case as well, which time will only tell. For similarities, I really feel that if not for NO, LE would be thinking the same thing as they were thinking in this case... which some could say therefore that if the couple instead disappeared as a plan, taking NO with them was a good plan to have LE not pursue that direction.

The similarities between these cases are uncanny...

What leaves me unsettled is - I always thought the suspect in the Liknes case must've used a gun to overpower three people and keep them quiet. I was saddened to read in another article that the McStays were presumed to have died from blunt force trauma, so presumably no gun.

How one man can overpower two adults with an object while they desperately try to save their children is stuff of nightmares. I can't imagine how this happens, I do know, sadly this seems to happen all the time in crimes

 

[Sillybilly]

How one man can overpower two adults with an object while they desperately try to save their children is stuff of nightmares. I can't imagine how this happens, I do know, sadly this seems to happen all the time in crimes

<rsbm>

It's very possible all 3 were not in the same rooms in the house (i.e. NO in the living room watching the tube or in bed; KL in the kitchen and AL in the downstairs/upstairs).

OK ... so as not to sound sexist ^^ ... AL in the kitchen

 

[Lalalacasbah]

<rsbm>

It's very possible all 3 were not in the same rooms in the house (i.e. NO in the living room watching the tube or in bed; KL in the kitchen and AL in the downstairs/upstairs).

Yes true, and I've heard (through someone who's studied Criminology, not first hand info just to make clear!) it's very common for the biggest threat and strongest person to be dealt with first (usually the men), and then the physically smaller/lesser threats last.

I hope nobody knew what hit them and it happened fast.