Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #19

[Sillybilly]

date of article: August 5, 2014

That information about the 30 day plan came out July 17:

from:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...r-search-called-off+&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

On July 19, the Calgary Police Service (CPS) distributed a press release saying as part of the ongoing search of a rural property in Airdrie, they have partnered with the National Research Council (NRC) of Canada to utilize their equipment to assist in the search. An NRC plane flew over the property throughout the weekend.

CPS and RCMP called off the search of a rural property belonging to Garland’s parents northeast of Airdrie on July 19 at approximately 6 p.m., according to Emma Poole, a CPS spokesperson. The property was handed back to the family at that time.

CPS released a statement on July 17 that said they had a 30-day plan in place to guide them as they continue with the ongoing investigation into the case.

They continue to search other locations.

The statement from CPS said they do not require assistance from the public to search public property, prompting a civilian search organized by a group in Airdrie to be called off. CPS also asked rural property and business owners to check their own land for anything suspicious. See related story on page 3.

from:
http://www2.canada.com/calgaryherald/iphone/news/latest/story.html?id=10039101

However, Calgary police are discouraging civilians from continuing - saying investigators have a 30-day plan of their own derived from intelligence and evidence gathered during their homicide probe.

"We are systematically searching locations that have a high likelihood of locating evidence utilizing officers from the CPS, RCMP and provincially-sanctioned civilian search organizations," police said in a written statement.

"The service has and will continue to dedicate as many resources as necessary to complete what has become a highly sensitive, and complex, investigation."

In addition to having the expertise to carry out an organized search, police officers are also trained to spot and properly preserve evidence for forensic analysis and eventual use in court.

While the Aug 5 Calgary Herald article references the 30 day plan in their article about the trip to Mexico, the earlier articles ^^ make it sound to be more in the context of the ground searches.

 

[news.talk]

You just made me think of something, I know we've discusses blitz attack vs. object vs. gun before but if a blitz or use of an object occurred wouldn't there be blood spatter patterns that were obvious to this from the beginning? Then LE would've known and stated that murder occurred from the beginning wouldn't they?

I think it would be hard to hide spatter, tissue, matter if this was the COD. This makes me think it might've been something less obvious for them not to state homicide from the beginning. Maybe blood, but not in spatter form.

If a gun and pillow was used as a way to keep things quiet, no spatter would've been as obvious to see and maybe blood was more pooled that contributed to drag marks.

I always feel bad discussing this stuff….

I have a feeling that LE knew *exactly* what they were dealing with from the beginning. Any experienced homicide detective, knows within the first few minutes of seeing a crime scene, what the outcome likely is.

When I saw the ME called in during the early hours of the investigation on the first day, I had no doubt that the police knew the victim's were deceased. In my experience, they always work on the premise that they are alive until the evidence conclusively tells them otherwise.

 

[news.talk]

That information about the 30 day plan came out July 17:

from:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...r-search-called-off+&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca



from:
http://www2.canada.com/calgaryherald/iphone/news/latest/story.html?id=10039101



While the Aug 5 Calgary Herald article references the 30 day plan in their article about the trip to Mexico, the earlier articles ^^ make it sound to be more in the context of the ground searches.

That is exactly how I read this article. They are referring to the search for the victim's remains.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Agreed, I also think that in that awful situation one would reach a point when they see one person gravely injured or even killed and realize the direction things are going, physically fight back and chaos probably ensues. That's why I'm really hoping it was a surprise from behind or a hit on the head or a gun was used so not a thought was cast to the victims in their final moments.

I know we've debated the 'struggle' and 'violent incident' already, don't want to go there again! My thoughts are just me wishing things were swift and painless for all of them.

`
If chaos did ensue after seeing one person grieviously injured or killed would certainly have produced noise...screaming of NO at the very least because he would have been scared. I highly doubt he was the first victim. My thought would be AL as he is the strongest and most likely to put up the biggest struggle..although one should never underestimate the power of a female if under duress. Flight or fight...my idea of KL is that she would fight. Despite this large altercation at the Liknes home, there seems to be a strange absence of noise...its conspicuous in it's absence as a matter of fact. IMO

 

[Sillybilly]

A carotid chokehold can silently and quickly take someone out in a matter of a few seconds:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...e19ab1013827b8c409c+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

A chokehold can cause death in as little as 15 seconds, said Dr. Michael Baden, director of a state forensic sciences consultation unit, who performed the autopsy

DG looks reasonably buff for his age. I wonder if he ever took any form of martial arts.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

I have a feeling that LE knew *exactly* what they were dealing with from the beginning. Any experienced homicide detective, knows within the first few minutes of seeing a crime scene, what the outcome likely is.

When I saw the ME called in during the early hours of the investigation on the first day, I had no doubt that the police knew the victim's were deceased. In my experience, they always work on the premise that they are alive until the evidence conclusively tells them otherwise.

I wonder if they knew pretty much right off the bat what happened to (I'm sorry I've forgotten his name..but its the young man that got out of a car and started walking around midnight) about a month ago when they initially came across the original disappearance. If I'm understanding that case correctly, his whereabouts and what may have happened to him are still unknown. I know his mother is leading a search for her son...have LE sent out ''servicemen" to follow-up on this case? Or, will it be another cold case eventually?

 

[stan laurel]

`
If chaos did ensue after seeing one person grieviously injured or killed would certainly have produced noise...screaming of NO at the very least because he would have been scared. I highly doubt he was the first victim. My thought would be AL as he is the strongest and most likely to put up the biggest struggle..although one should never underestimate the power of a female if under duress. Flight or fight...my idea of KL is that she would fight. Despite this large altercation at the Liknes home, there seems to be a strange absence of noise...its conspicuous in it's absence as a matter of fact. IMO

dg had a workshop,, there are many unique ways to control and then kill people;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Brian_Douglas_Wells

 

[news.talk]

I wonder if they knew pretty much right off the bat what happened to (I'm sorry I've forgotten his name..but its the young man that got out of a car and started walking around midnight) about a month ago when they initially came across the original disappearance. If I'm understanding that case correctly, his whereabouts and what may have happened to him are still unknown. I know his mother is leading a search for her son...have LE sent out ''servicemen" to follow-up on this case? Or, will it be another cold case eventually?

I think you are referring to this young man:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258010

Without a crime scene, the task is much more difficult.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

The condo is connected to the victims and the accused, whether we want to split hairs or not. It is jointly owned by Garland (the accused family) and Liknes (the victim's family). The police were in Mexico to learn more about the victim's plans to move there. Presumably, that included the condo. In fact, I think the condo was the focus of learning about the victim's plans to move to Mexico. If police were investigating that financial connection, they had to obtain official, notarized copies of documents, not electronic ones.

It is not connected to the accused. There is a a connection to a Garland family member...not the accused. Or maybe you're right and the accused is actually the one that put money into that condo...but, what does that mean then?...I believe that option has been shot down so...that basically leaves a connection to the elder Garlands or to his sister. There's no need for LE to look in Mexico for a connection to DG. If they're looking into the fact that another Garland member has put forth money in the condo. then they are looking at something other than DG's connection to it. Wonder why they would even be looking at that family members interest in the condo? It suggests to me, that perhaps LE is following another lead...from a different perspective. Why would the Garland involvement in the condo be of interest to by LE? IMO

 

[Tinkerbel1]

I think you are referring to this young man:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258010

Without a crime scene, the task is much more difficult.

Yes, this is the one...Justin...I was thinking "Josh"

 

[LoisLane]

`
If chaos did ensue after seeing one person grieviously injured or killed would certainly have produced noise...screaming of NO at the very least because he would have been scared. I highly doubt he was the first victim. My thought would be AL as he is the strongest and most likely to put up the biggest struggle..although one should never underestimate the power of a female if under duress. Flight or fight...my idea of KL is that she would fight. Despite this large altercation at the Liknes home, there seems to be a strange absence of noise...its conspicuous in it's absence as a matter of fact. IMO

I know first hand and have heard many stories of children sleeping through extremely loud events including smoke detectors and house alarms, arguing, and forms of impact. I pray that NO was sound asleep. If he was asleep and DG still took it upon himself to eliminate a witness... I don't know what to say.

So many scenarios to consider. I just can't seem to wrap my head around the actual murder process.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

dg had a workshop,, there are many unique ways to control and then kill people;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Brian_Douglas_Wells

Absolutely agree! Therefore, we can safely assume, no one was killed at the Liknes home, correct? They got out of that house on their own two feet...perhaps with some persuasion but my thought is they were alive and walked out of it...in which case they got in DG's truck...unless there was another mode of transportation nearby. JMO

 

[news.talk]

Absolutely agree! Therefore, we can safely assume, no one was killed at the Liknes home, correct? They got out of that house on their own two feet...perhaps with some persuasion but my thought is they were alive and walked out of it...in which case they got in DG's truck...unless there was another mode of transportation nearby. JMO

If that is the case, where did they locate the evidence that concluded the victim's were deceased?

 

[Tinkerbel1]

I know first hand and have heard many stories of children sleeping through extremely loud events including smoke detectors and house alarms, arguing, and forms of impact. I pray that NO was sound asleep. If he was asleep and DG still took it upon himself to eliminate a witness... I don't know what to say.

So many scenarios to consider. I just can't seem to wrap my head around the actual murder process.

It sure wasn't necessary to kill NO...dropping him off on a street corner or at a store where he could be helped by an adult would've been a much better option. I doubt NO would've identified DG...he's pretty non-descript, unless NO knew DG, which we've already decided is not possible as JO and KL did not know that DG existed...so why not let the child go in a safe way so that he wouldn't be involved. That's the sad part.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

If that is the case, where did they locate the evidence that concluded the victim's were deceased?

The pieces of the evidence you mean? Could have been in any number of locations, but as LE is not disclosing any of their finds, I have no clue. Do you?

 

[news.talk]

The pieces of the evidence you mean? Could have been in any number of locations, but as LE is not disclosing any of their finds, I have no clue. Do you?

Given that the ME was not at the acreage, but at the Parkhill home, I would guess that was the primary crime scene.

 

[LoisLane]

I have a feeling that LE knew *exactly* what they were dealing with from the beginning. Any experienced homicide detective, knows within the first few minutes of seeing a crime scene, what the outcome likely is.

When I saw the ME called in during the early hours of the investigation on the first day, I had no doubt that the police knew the victim's were deceased. In my experience, they always work on the premise that they are alive until the evidence conclusively tells them otherwise.

If it is true that LE knew *exactly* what they were dealing with then I do have a tough time trusting them and respecting their investigative process and the way they handled themselves in the media. Thousands of people held hope that this family was missing and LE allowed that hope to go on for two weeks. If they did this to protect the investigative process and made alluding statements of hope I personally have lost respect for the way they handled it. What would be the purpose for LE to do this? What would they be hoping to gain? If they knew they were murdered but had to wait for results why didn't they say so? The first two weeks the public were searching for missing people. Not missing dead people. I would think the interest and tips would have taken a different direction if they were forthcoming from day one.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

It sure wasn't necessary to kill NO...dropping him off on a street corner or at a store where he could be helped by an adult would've been a much better option. I doubt NO would've identified DG...he's pretty non-descript, unless NO knew DG, which we've already decided is not possible as JO and KL did not know that DG existed...so why not let the child go in a safe way so that he wouldn't be involved. That's the sad part.

Compassion while executing a plan to kill 2 others isn't really expected. Yes the killing is sad and regrettable, but given the context, predictable.

We don't know that KL didn't know DG... that was speculation on JO's part. Hopefully, the relationship will be explained at any future trial.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I have a feeling that LE knew *exactly* what they were dealing with from the beginning. Any experienced homicide detective, knows within the first few minutes of seeing a crime scene, what the outcome likely is.

When I saw the ME called in during the early hours of the investigation on the first day, I had no doubt that the police knew the victim's were deceased. In my experience, they always work on the premise that they are alive until the evidence conclusively tells them otherwise.

Yeah, a trained eye and experienced detectives would probably know what happened by the scene but I'm still just so surprised and a bit confused they said they were hanging onto hope they'd be find alive.

I mean, just saying the words 'alive' at a press conference conjures up hope for everyone, and letting the family (JO and RO) send a message to NO on TV seems strange to do if LE knew they were all deceased. Unless they were doing this as strategy to maybe weigh on the conscience of the perp.

If they knew they were all deceased from the beginning, they could have said 'no comment' or veiled their statements to not conjure up such hope. Don't get me wrong, I'm not slamming LE, just a bit confused why they did it this way. Maybe they thought NO escaped by chance somehow or was hiding or maybe thought not everyone had succumbed to death at the Parkhill home, I guess they might've known *a* murder occurred, but not how many.

 

[news.talk]

If it is true that LE knew *exactly* what they were dealing with then I do have a tough time trusting them and respecting their investigative process and the way they handled themselves in the media. Thousands of people held hope that this family was missing and LE allowed that hope to go on for two weeks. If they did this to protect the investigative process and made alluding statements of hope I personally have lost respect for the way they handled it. What would be the purpose for LE to do this? What would they be hoping to gain? If they knew they were murdered but had to wait for results why didn't they say so? The first two weeks the public were searching for missing people. Not missing dead people. I would think the interest and tips would have taken a different direction if they were forthcoming from day one.

When there are no bodies, no witnesses, and no early leads , they would be remiss to proceed any other way than on the presumption that they were alive. Had they declared them dead witjout conclusive forensic evidence and they turned out to be alive??? THAT would have been a disaster!