Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #19

[deugirtni]

Boy, I see why you're confused.

The June PDF on the website, by the way, when *I* download it, is actually July that downloads instead. Are others experiencing this as well or is something wrong with my computer, ie need a reboot or something?

In the June Report that you have attached, it says for June 2014 (as far as I can read it and as compared to all of the other months), there was 1 homicide listed. Could that be: June 20 — Gabriel Okeynan, 45 ? Where are the trio listed? In same report, it totals the homicides for the year as being 15. That matches the listing of Calgary homicides I posted yesterday(?) which was 15 in June, up UNTIL the trio were considered homicides.

Then in the July Report that you have attached, it says '4' homicides in July, with a year to date total of 22 (it grew by 7 (15+7=22) even though only 4 are listed in July). In the listing of homicides which I posted upthread, there were indeed 4 homicides in Calgary in July (see pasted below).

So where is the report that lists '4' homicides in June, instead of the '1' that is shown in the report attached to your post entitled 'June Report', and why does it not seem to be available on the website? If anyone else is able to retrieve the June report, does it continue to say only 1 homicide in June?

19 - July 4 — Colton James Crowshoe, 18, is last seen by friends in the Abbeydale area. On July 24, Crowshoe’s body is found in a water retention point near Stoney Tr. and 16 Ave. N.E. Police do not release the cause of death, but say they believe the case is a homicide.

20 - July 5 — Ayuen Ajak Goot, also known as Devon Goot, 18, is found unconscious in a strip mall parking long at 2936 Radcliffe Dr. S.E. and taken to hospital. He succumbs to his injuries July 15. Police say they believe it was a targeted attack and the victim was known to the suspects. Ojullo Mark Ojullo, 20, and Shannon Jabet, 19, are each charged with one count of second-degree murder.

21 - July 26 — The body of a 49-year-old woman is found in a home in the 2800 block of 14 Ave. S.W. Her son has been charged with second-degree murder.

22 - July 27 — Brian Blackkettle is found unconscious at Century Gardens in downtown Calgary. He is transported to hospital where he is pronounced dead. An autopsy confirms he was slain and on July 29 police announce it was by the hands of someone the victim knew.

In the first excel spreadsheet PDF that you attached, for Parkhill, for the month of June 2014, for 'Violence 'Other'', (which appears to be the only possible category for homicide?), it shows zero.

Same with the second spreadsheet PDF... zero for Parkhill.

I'm posting the CPS PDF reports for June (thanks Otto for uploading earlier in the thread) and July 2014. I'm also posting the excel spreadsheet stats for crimes by neighborhood for those interested in them as well as link to the documents:

http://www.calgary.ca/cps/Pages/Statistics/Calgary-Police-statistical-reports.aspx

View attachment 63785 View attachment 63786

ETA - Couldn't attached excel spreadsheet format so resaved the file as a PDF. I cut out 2012 and 2013 so only will see 2014 stats. There are 2 docs - only by community the other by crime category. View attachment 63787View attachment 63788

 

[deugirtni]

LoisLane the other day you posted a link to a page full of WS posts, and that would be a great way to see if around that time there may have been conversation in WS about any videos in which it was mentioned about the G family jointly owning Mexican property with the Ls.. but I don't know how to do that.. can you enlighten me? Thanks!

Thank you for posting this Lori!

I am not sure if the video has been removed or if my IPad is not allowing me to view it but I will try on a Pc later. i thought it had worked earlier today but I had limited time to watch. I wonder if the reporter would be willing to back up his comments. I am also curious why other news outlets have not (that I am aware of) touched on the joint ownership. It is also interesting the many comments by readers and the suspicion they have about the Mexico connection.

 

[LoisLane]

My first thought was, the grandparents took off with their grandson since the Amber Alert was issued for NO in attendance of his grandparents. The information regarding the business dealings, etc on the victims' side, certainly reinforced that idea. When siteings were reported country-wide, that as well, furthered my original thoughts.

I had the same thoughts. I thought for sure it would be resolved and the grandparents would be caught within a couple days. Once the truck photo was released I was actively catching up on details and following the story more closely. It just kept getting stranger and uglier.

 

[LoisLane]

LoisLane the other day you posted a link to a page full of WS posts, and that would be a great way to see if around that time there may have been conversation in WS about any videos in which it was mentioned about the G family jointly owning Mexican property with the Ls.. but I don't know how to do that.. can you enlighten me? Thanks!

I think it was cached or archived pages in the google search for websleuths.com. I believe I had used websleuths in my search description. That is the first time that I saw the threads in that easy-to-read format. I was super busy that day multitasking and I was all excited to see the thread that way, and I figured it out at the time but I cannot remember anymore. I will let you know when I figure it out.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Come to think of it........ has it even been stated by LE in their statement they made when they cancelled the AA, charged DG with 3 murders, and stated their 'belief' that the trio were dead, that their presumed deaths occurred at the Parkhill residence? Just wondeing, because I don't recall hearing that part. I could be wrong. Do you have a link? Thanks.

The crime map says 2.

 

[Sillybilly]

Who was it that ever said 'lots'? Not LE, not MSM after speaking with LE, but a friend of the family, who did not see it for himself, and we do not even know if he used JO's exact words. And you are basing your theories and beliefs on this? But yet others who dare to theorize get accused of.. you know what. This is no better than that.

We are allowed to discuss and consider whatever is in MSM ... doesn't just have to be statements by LE.

 

[LoriMcA]

Excellent post LoriMcA and glad to see you back! Interesting that both you and news.talk found the exact same link. At the time when this came out, surely there was lengthy discussion here on WS.. and as such, any links, one would assume, would be posted in the posts at the time.. I'm really bad at searching WS successfully, but I would be interested to know if there were any other links posted from the time. If in fact it *was* only from this one news source, then I would agree that the Sun isn't the most trustworthy as far as their reporting. (We have one here too!). If there are others however, that may have since disappeared, then perhaps it carries more weight.

The reporter 'inferred' that he had 'JUST' gotten off the phone with LE, and then starts talking about the joint property.. but you're right.. it actually says (BBM) 'before this investigation began, we did learn that the Garland family & the Liknes family combined.... " (that could lead one to wonder if the actual video when it was first stated was from earlier though??)

I also haven't heard of a peep out of the twin, and I also find that very odd, especiallly considering it has been said they were very close.

Your possible reasons for travelling to Mexico all make sense.

Thanks...I have been here reading off & on ...just didn't have anything really to add...

I have been looking thru my folders for the link above for a couple weeks here and there....finally found it....I should have thought to search older threads but didn't...it was a matter of finding it in my 'stuff'...I keep folders in my bookmarks bar...as well as on my computer...full to the brim with links as found...pictures etc on a lot of crime cases...

Over the years most links are still active in archives from the papers...some are not...I don't find anything 'fishy' about the ones 'missing'...I've seen a lot of old articles removed ...eg '404 not found'...etc....when the stories *not just this case but many old stories* become dated...

If you are looking for specific mention here on WS...if you use the search function only in the thread you are in it seems to find things fairly quickly...or narrows it down so you can scroll thru convos....
I try to go back and re-read on occasion ...just to see if there may be something 'old' that might be an 'aha' moment....

As I stated in my post....as an ETA...I came back and sure as heck...I get babbling *in this case I was re-watching the video & copying my transcript I'd kept previously from the video & adding my 2 cents...okay...20 cents..! * and usually someone has posted in the meantime....today it was an OMG....cuz sure as heck newstalk had found what I was already rambling about...great minds me thinks?

Anywho....about that report in particular...or 'the subject'...

I recalled it had been mentioned back when it was fresh....around Aug 5th or so...

At that point it had become rather 'slow' for new info coming out....it was a new topic to touch on when we all read that CPS were in Mexico...

I remember the one story of the condo ownership...I also remember saving it ....but not giving it much 'weight'...simply because of past stories from 'that' particular news group...only because I've seen how they have 'reported' on stories in the past with a lot of 'innuendo' and large headlines ykwim? But...as is my habit...I saved the link anyways...

As far as what we discuss here on WS....I just go back to previous threads (if you go to page 1 of this thread it has all previous threads listed to go to)...there is an intro post at the top of each...then sillybilly's awesome timeline....and below that you'll see where the first post starts....will give you a rough estimate of the time span that thread will involve...

In this case...Aug 5th...first post about the trip to Mexico....that starts out in Thread 12....Page 4 posted by our wonderful Weebles...& found here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...June-2014-*ARREST*-12&p=10823794#post10823794

Then I usually read about a week or so worth....usually if a link is going to be referenced...it will be when the news story breaks or shortly after that news comes out....with follow up stories from other msm....

Anywhoo...I find the Intro posts on each new thread very very handy...you can find all the thread links there and the timeline ...very helpful

Just now going back to Thread 12 & 13... going through from the first report....I did not find any other links to any reference to the G/L joint venture. I did find this though..

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Canada/Calgary/ID/2483047902/

And this in particular in the video at about the :25 mark & on:

"....we know that Calgary police are confirming that their investigation into the Liknes/O'Brien murders has taken them to Mexico and specifically to one property that they are searching...."

 

[LoriMcA]

Thank you for posting this Lori!

I am not sure if the video has been removed or if my IPad is not allowing me to view it but I will try on a Pc later. i thought it had worked earlier today but I had limited time to watch. I wonder if the reporter would be willing to back up his comments. I am also curious why other news outlets have not (that I am aware of) touched on the joint ownership. It is also interesting the many comments by readers and the suspicion they have about the Mexico connection.

I watched it on my PC & even then it was really jittery...not the usual for me...got me frustrated when trying to match up what I'd transcribed from it previously I tell ya *L*...but eventually it played fully....
I wonder if he would too...
I have my opinion....I don't think there were other reports because I really don't think there was a joint/combined ownership...maybe they each own there...but I have my doubts if it's 'together'...for just that reason...this was the only one saying 'combined' anything between the L's & the G's...
Yeah...like I said earlier...some of the comments truly make me cringe...I mean seriously...
IMO...JMO...JMOO...as always

 

[deugirtni]

I'm not sure what the crime map indicates two of, but the crime stats don't seem to be correct, at least for the month of June, at least the one that is posted as being 'June Report', which now seems to be not downloadable from the CPS website. I was asking if it had been stated by LE that 3 murders took place at the Parkhill residence.

The crime map says 2.

Originally Posted by deugirtni View Post
Come to think of it........ has it even been stated by LE in their statement they made when they cancelled the AA, charged DG with 3 murders, and stated their 'belief' that the trio were dead, that their presumed deaths occurred at the Parkhill residence? Just wondeing, because I don't recall hearing that part. I could be wrong. Do you have a link? Thanks.

 

[deugirtni]

Yes absolutely, but nevertheless I don't think we can count someone's statement as fact. And we can discuss opinion as to validity, etc.

We are allowed to discuss and consider whatever is in MSM ... doesn't just have to be statements by LE.

 

[otto]

I had asked if you have a link supporting your statement of fact, which I am pasting directly below, but you instead post what the Office of the Chief ME provides. I'm looking for where the information is that confirms that the ME is ONLY called out in the event of death.:

The role of the medical examiner is as follows (the medical examiner is not involved anything outside of this role):

"Role:

When a death occurs suddenly or it cannot be explained, the OCME conducts an investigation, under the authority of the Fatality Inquiries Act.

We hold each of our investigations to determine:
◾who died
◾where they died
◾when they died
◾why they died
◾how they died"

http://justice.alberta.ca/programs_services/fatality/ocme/Pages/default.aspx
http://www.qp.alberta.ca/574.cfm?page=F09.cfm&leg_type=Acts&isbncln=077973999X

Therefore, the medical examiner is involved if, and only if, there is a death.

 

[otto]

Regarding the 'drag marks' which you are referring to:

i)at the presser in which Detective Andrus (I think it was that name) spoke of marks along the side of the house, and was asked by a reporter if he meant the sidewalk, and he said no, that he believed along the side of the house. I don't believe the 'drag marks' have ever been stated by LE to be blood, or 'drag marks', or of appearing to have been washed off, but that these statements have only conjectured by media. I could be mistaken, and if so, please provide a link wherein LE stated those things. So yes, the 'drag marks' could very easily have been trash leaking, dragged to the truck for travel to the dump as the family cleaned up in readiness for their 'estate sale'. Or the drag marks could have been from a long time ago and just staining remains. Although that one spot looks horrible, it is considerably blown up, but if you look at it in context, it is quite small. If that was the point of interest, don't you believe the marker would be right there instead of up by the garage door where above it is obvious police interest?

ii)if you will notice the photos (from long ago posts) in which the police markers are displayed, specifically #14 (which is right at the side door of the home, which there are photos of an investigator investigating that area above), and #15 which is directly below the area which was heavily stained from investigative inks(or whatever they are called, the purple stuff), there is no marker along the 'drag marks', nor the spot of what looks to be blood in the concrete crack; the marker instead is where there is heavy evidence of police looking for prints; there is another marker on the driveway;

iii)police say the scene IN the house makes them 'believe' the 3 were forcibly removed (see your quote below BBM)

We can all have our theories, but one unsubstantiated theory is no better than another really.

Some people may prefer to reject all statement unless made by police. Some people may prefer to debate the validity of police statements. Other prefer to respect the validity of eye witness observations and police statements. Given that my interest is in understand what happened at the crime scene, and to the victims, I don't have much interest in attempting to discredit the information that comes from eye witnesses and respected police officers.

"Three evidence tags can be seen next to what appears to be drag marks on the walkway of a home where three people were reported missing Monday.

Running about eight metres from a side door to the driveway, the marks look like dark liquid that was recently cleaned up."

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2014/07/01/21777926.html

 

[Tinkerbel1]

I'm not sure what the crime map indicates two of, but the crime stats don't seem to be correct, at least for the month of June, at least the one that is posted as being 'June Report', which now seems to be not downloadable from the CPS website. I was asking if it had been stated by LE that 3 murders took place at the Parkhill residence.

Yes, isn't that funny that so much of the things that are discussed here were visible before online, but have seemingly 'disappeared'? LE must use WS as a source of reference or something?

 

[LoisLane]

The role of the medical examiner is as follows (the medical examiner is not involved anything outside of this role):

"Role:

When a death occurs suddenly or it cannot be explained, the OCME conducts an investigation, under the authority of the Fatality Inquiries Act.

We hold each of our investigations to determine:
◾who died
◾where they died
◾when they died
◾why they died
◾how they died"

http://justice.alberta.ca/programs_services/fatality/ocme/Pages/default.aspx
http://www.qp.alberta.ca/574.cfm?page=F09.cfm&leg_type=Acts&isbncln=077973999X

Therefore, the medical examiner is involved if, and only if, there is a death.

The description may not be taken so seriously if they included:
- If they died

If we look at a police officer's job description would it be just as vague?

 

[deugirtni]

Thanks LoriMcA. I find the search mechanism on WS really cumbersome and time consuming and would love to know how to get an archived report like the one LL posted recently, because from that it is very easy to search. I did go back and read posts from the time period when it was stated that the G family also owned the Mexican property.. and I can find only one media with that information, the one which you and news.talk linked yesterday.. and so I have to agree that considering none of the other media outlets seem to have ever reported that, and considering the Sun's reputation, I don't think that statement carries much weight. MOO. Interesting how rumors get started and keep going based on one little (false) bone thrown in along the way! It may also be worthy of note that considering how it seems that all kinds of media outlets have the same story, and the exact same wording in fact, that no other media picked up on this statement thrown out by the Sun. Very telling, imho.

Another thing I happened upon in my search regarding the Mexican statement, I relistened to the interview from the L's neighbour who had been 'invited' into the L home to have a look. I recall there was discussion on WS about a rug having been removed, and speculation was had regarding that it could have been used to wrap the bodies in for transport. The man doesn't say it was removed, he says it was 'picked up'. Nothing about it being absent. More like it was picked up for moving into storage. One would have to assume that if there were 'lots' of blood on the carpet, LE would have removed it as evidence. We're not sure which 'rug' he's referring to in which room, but just thought I would mention, because I had thought WSers had been discussing how the rug had been removed. Link below:
http://globalnews.ca/news/1492641/search-for-missing-calgary-family-moves-to-mexico/?utm_source=Other&utm_medium=MostPopular&utm_campaign=2014

Definitely interesting to go back on historical posts!

Thanks...I have been here reading off & on ...just didn't have anything really to add...

I have been looking thru my folders for the link above for a couple weeks here and there....finally found it....I should have thought to search older threads but didn't...it was a matter of finding it in my 'stuff'...I keep folders in my bookmarks bar...as well as on my computer...full to the brim with links as found...pictures etc on a lot of crime cases...

Over the years most links are still active in archives from the papers...some are not...I don't find anything 'fishy' about the ones 'missing'...I've seen a lot of old articles removed ...eg '404 not found'...etc....when the stories *not just this case but many old stories* become dated...

If you are looking for specific mention here on WS...if you use the search function only in the thread you are in it seems to find things fairly quickly...or narrows it down so you can scroll thru convos....
I try to go back and re-read on occasion ...just to see if there may be something 'old' that might be an 'aha' moment....

As I stated in my post....as an ETA...I came back and sure as heck...I get babbling *in this case I was re-watching the video & copying my transcript I'd kept previously from the video & adding my 2 cents...okay...20 cents..! * and usually someone has posted in the meantime....today it was an OMG....cuz sure as heck newstalk had found what I was already rambling about...great minds me thinks?

Anywho....about that report in particular...or 'the subject'...

I recalled it had been mentioned back when it was fresh....around Aug 5th or so...

At that point it had become rather 'slow' for new info coming out....it was a new topic to touch on when we all read that CPS were in Mexico...

I remember the one story of the condo ownership...I also remember saving it ....but not giving it much 'weight'...simply because of past stories from 'that' particular news group...only because I've seen how they have 'reported' on stories in the past with a lot of 'innuendo' and large headlines ykwim? But...as is my habit...I saved the link anyways...

As far as what we discuss here on WS....I just go back to previous threads (if you go to page 1 of this thread it has all previous threads listed to go to)...there is an intro post at the top of each...then sillybilly's awesome timeline....and below that you'll see where the first post starts....will give you a rough estimate of the time span that thread will involve...

In this case...Aug 5th...first post about the trip to Mexico....that starts out in Thread 12....Page 4 posted by our wonderful Weebles...& found here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...June-2014-*ARREST*-12&p=10823794#post10823794

Then I usually read about a week or so worth....usually if a link is going to be referenced...it will be when the news story breaks or shortly after that news comes out....with follow up stories from other msm....

Anywhoo...I find the Intro posts on each new thread very very handy...you can find all the thread links there and the timeline ...very helpful

Just now going back to Thread 12 & 13... going through from the first report....I did not find any other links to any reference to the G/L joint venture. I did find this though..

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Canada/Calgary/ID/2483047902/

And this in particular in the video at about the :25 mark & on:

"....we know that Calgary police are confirming that their investigation into the Liknes/O'Brien murders has taken them to Mexico and specifically to one property that they are searching...."

 

[deugirtni]

Thanks otto but no need to post exactly the same information as was posted by the poster who made the statement.

The role of the medical examiner is as follows (the medical examiner is not involved anything outside of this role):

"Role:

When a death occurs suddenly or it cannot be explained, the OCME conducts an investigation, under the authority of the Fatality Inquiries Act.

We hold each of our investigations to determine:
◾who died
◾where they died
◾when they died
◾why they died
◾how they died"

http://justice.alberta.ca/programs_services/fatality/ocme/Pages/default.aspx
http://www.qp.alberta.ca/574.cfm?page=F09.cfm&leg_type=Acts&isbncln=077973999X

Therefore, the medical examiner is involved if, and only if, there is a death.

 

[deugirtni]

I don't reject all statements unless made by police. And if a statement by anyone is an opinion, then I don't necessarily accept it as fact. We can agree to disagree and that is okay.

Some people may prefer to reject all statement unless made by police. Some people may prefer to debate the validity of police statements. Other prefer to respect the validity of eye witness observations and police statements. Given that my interest is in understand what happened at the crime scene, and to the victims, I don't have much interest in attempting to discredit the information that comes from eye witnesses and respected police officers.

"Three evidence tags can be seen next to what appears to be drag marks on the walkway of a home where three people were reported missing Monday.

Running about eight metres from a side door to the driveway, the marks look like dark liquid that was recently cleaned up."

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2014/07/01/21777926.html

 

[deugirtni]

Another thing I came across while looking for the reference to the G family also owning the property in Mexico, was a statement made by Global News. It is interesting to see that depending on exact wording, things can have very different meanings, or be potentially mistaken by readers to mean one thing instead of a very different other thing.

In the quote below, it says investigators are following up on leads in that country, which could potentially be taken two ways: that investigators received leads in that country and they are now following up on those leads in that location; or that investigators are following up in Mexico based on leads involving that country which they have received from wherever.

Calgary Police confirm to Global News that investigators are following up on leads in that country, into the disappearance of Alvin and Kathryn Liknes, and their five-year-old grandson Nathan O’Brien.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1492641/search-for-missing-calgary-family-moves-to-mexico/?utm_source=Other&utm_medium=MostPopular&utm_campaign=2014 (Article written August 5, 2014)

 

[deugirtni]

I am wondering, but I don't have time to search back to the links... regarding the medical examiner being called by police to attend the Parkhill home, was that story also by the Sun chain? I know there are several instances of that exact same wording, which media tends to copy stories from other media, just wondering if the Sun was the only outlet which stated that.

 

[deugirtni]

Why would one suppose it is ok to release info that the ME has determined a death to be a homicide for one case, but not another? Is one expected to believe that if an accused is arrested on charges, it makes the ME's determination a secret, even though LE is fine with stating that determination?

The Medical Examiner has determined the death to be a homicide. The cause of death is not being released.

The victim has been identified as 40 year-old Garland Curtis of Airdrie.

- See more at: http://www.discoverairdrie.com/inde...led-a-homicide&Itemid=95#sthash.tQZiDxmj.dpuf