Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #20

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  • #601
OutOfTheDarkness said:
Who lashes out around here? :)

So much of it is choice as well... everyone reading this is capable of murder. It all depends on your motivation... and for every person who feels justified in committing the act, there will be someone equally horrified by it. Perception.

If you want to try to understand it, don't just stop at the label... evil, crazy, monster... dig deeper.

It will be very interesting to hear what the Crown feels was the motivation and trigger.
Click to expand...

Yes choice too of course. Choosing to kill is one thing and choosing what you do to your victim(s) afterwards is another. One type of killer can be forgiven and redeemed and the other is past a point of any type of fixing.

I'm extremely curious how the cards will be played in court. I have a feeling they will paint Alvin as the bad man and DG as a victim.
 
  • #602
LoisLane said:
My guess is that reporters were asked to leave or keep quiet for now.

CBC reported that the RCMP were also on scene. Does anyone recall if RCMP were involved during the search in the summer?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...dence-on-douglas-garland-s-property-1.3014212
Click to expand...

Hhmmm, will try to look back if RCMP were involved but I don't recall hearing that. Also, maybe I'm just reading too much into it but is there a specific reason the tactical team would be used and what and why are they usually used for I wonder(BBM)?

"Plainclothes and uniformed officers, including members of the tactical team, combed through the property all day. They also searched the area and buildings around the home.

ETA: Seems RCMP were there in the summer. "Dozens of police and RCMP officers fanned out across the 16-Hectare property in Airdrie, north of Calgary, searching for anything that could help them find five-year-old Nathan O’Brien and his Grandparents, Alvin and Kathryn Liknes."

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...-convicted-drug-trafficker-has-ties-to-family
 
  • #603
  • #604
news.talk said:
Very few people are capable of brutally murdering a five year old child. There is no justification for that.

Enjoying the couch?
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Really? How many of the suicide bombers do you think do it for religious reasons, and how many do it because their family is being hacked apart piece by piece by those forcing them to strap the bomb to themselves?

We like to cookie cut our world far too much, and don't dig into the far recesses of our own selves to discover what it would actually take for you to do something heinous.

Everyone has that point... it all depends on the motive and justification. It's just rare for pleasure to be the motivation...
 
  • #605
Can anyone refresh my memory? I vaguely remember that DG had posted an ad looking for some type of chemicals for one of his companies.Does anyone remember what type they were? Were they for septic systems?TIA
 
  • #606
  • #607
Lalalacasbah said:
Yes choice too of course. Choosing to kill is one thing and choosing what you do to your victim(s) afterwards is another. One type of killer can be forgiven and redeemed and the other is past a point of any type of fixing.

I'm extremely curious how the cards will be played in court. I have a feeling they will paint Alvin as the bad man and DG as a victim.
Click to expand...
It depends on the justification in the killer's mind.

What about a case of someone killing because they were taken for millions of dollars? No serial killer tendencies, or pleasure killing... Only justification. Self righteousness. No need to rehabilitate. They won't kill again as long as no one steals millions of dollars from them again.

It's far too easy to categorize, rather than deal with each individual specifically... which requires going into their history. Some people genetically may not be capable of reasoned or rationed thought... others have been traumatized or brainwashed as a child into "demented" perceptions and thinking. So much of the "output" in adulthood, is dependent on the "programming" of the individual in childhood.

It is necessary to delve deeper, and go to the ugly places in one's self, regardless of the discomfort. It is the only way such "evil" things can be prevented... for example, since current society is so dependent on currency, perhaps if laws and punishments were more severe for those who steal money, many, many senseless murders and deaths could be avoided. In order to make the necessary changes, one needs to hear the justification first, rather than dismiss it as "evil".

That is but one example.
 
  • #608
  • #609
  • #610
news.talk said:
Which is odd, given that Alberta is a "rat free zone"
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Do large farm operations still use it though? It is not unthinkable that one would simply purchase it to redistribute it at a profit.
 
  • #611
OutOfTheDarkness said:
It depends on the justification in the killer's mind.

What about a case of someone killing because they were taken for millions of dollars? No serial killer tendencies, or pleasure killing... Only justification. Self righteousness. No need to rehabilitate. They won't kill again as long as no one steals millions of dollars from them again.

It's far too easy to categorize, rather than deal with each individual specifically... which requires going into their history. Some people genetically may not be capable of reasoned or rationed thought... others have been traumatized or brainwashed as a child into "demented" perceptions and thinking. So much of the "output" in adulthood, is dependent on the "programming" of the individual in childhood.

It is necessary to delve deeper, and go to the ugly places in one's self, regardless of the discomfort. It is the only way such "evil" things can be prevented... for example, since current society is so dependent on currency, perhaps if laws and punishments were more severe for those who steal money, many, many senseless murders and deaths could be avoided. In order to make the necessary changes, one needs to hear the justification first, rather than dismiss it as "evil".

That is but one example.
Click to expand...

I know what you mean and I agree to an extent...

But for every 50 people that were swindled for a million dollars maybe only 1 of them would kill over it and chances are they have a personality disorder, otherwise the other 50 people would've killed that person as well.

Usually when a person kills they usually participate in other deviant behavior throughout their life and not always illegal or criminal (even just being a long term liar). To me it comes down to - if it's in you, it's in you. I'm a firm believer in gray areas as well and each case/crime is different, but there's a lot of people who no matter what, would not look at killing as an option or choice ever.

I've formed my opinion mostly from learning and hearing about criminology and criminal behavior from a family member, so it's hard for me to shake when I have this engrained in me from an early age ack! To be fair, I feel like I've had some life experience and crossed paths with some shady folks long ago (through a work place) that have contributed and form how I feel as well.

I guess it's JMO. To each their own, it's a complicated and not black and white subject, so interesting to discuss though! :)
 
  • #612
Lalalacasbah said:
I know what you mean and I agree to an extent...

But for every 50 people that were swindled for a million dollars maybe only 1 of them would kill over it and chances are they have a personality disorder, otherwise the other 50 people would've killed that person as well.

Usually when a person kills they usually participate in other deviant behavior throughout their life and not always illegal or criminal (even just being a long term liar). To me it comes down to - if it's in you, it's in you. I'm a firm believer in gray areas as well and each case/crime is different, but there's a lot of people who no matter what, would not look at killing as an option or choice ever.

I've formed my opinion mostly from learning and hearing about criminology and criminal behavior from a family member, so it's hard for me to shake when I have this engrained in me from an early age ack! To be fair, I feel like I've had some life experience and crossed paths with some shady folks long ago (through a work place) that have contributed and form how I feel as well.

I guess it's JMO. To each their own, it's a complicated and not black and white subject, so interesting to discuss though! :)
Click to expand...
I would love to go on and on... ;) ... but need to go enjoy my day.

You've crossed paths, and have been exposed... but have you ever been put in that position?

What if the loss of the millions cost that one person their family and their health, as opposed to the others that could carry on with their businesses? There are so many variables... which is my point... you have to delve into the details rather than simply stop at evil.
 
  • #613
OutOfTheDarkness said:
I would love to go on and on... ;) ... but need to go enjoy my day.

You've crossed paths, and have been exposed... but have you ever been put in that position?

What if the loss of the millions cost that one person their family and their health, as opposed to the others that could carry on with their businesses? There are so many variables... which is my point... you have to delve into the details rather than simply stop at evil.
Click to expand...

I know, I could go on and on too, it's been awhile since I've had a healthy debate ;) Enjoy the day, just heading out as well :)
 
  • #614
  • #615
  • #616
news.talk said:
I know LOL... We had a Gov. program that claimed we were "rat free" and to the best of my knowledge, we still have rat patrols on the border. Here is a National Geographic article about our fifty years being rat free:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/03/0331_030331_rats_2.html
Click to expand...

Lol! I hate rats. The chain of babies that can come from one pair can reach the thousands within a year. They are everywhere. When a landfill closes the rats have to move out and they usually end up in areas that are habited including dirty homes and dirty yards. They are smart too, if they know your routine of when you will enter your residence they will hide around the corner and wait for you to open the door and sneak right in. They give me the heeby jeebies.
 
  • #617
FWIW, I've posted these transcriptions on the media thread as well.
Global News Calgary
Police Continue to Search Garland Property
http://globalnews.ca/video/1914108/p...rland-property
Posted: March 21, 2015 2:25 pm

This is not an official transcript, and is not connected to any of the participants.
It is a rough draft, and all errors are my own.

Noon News Hour - Police Continue to Search Garland Property

SK = Stefan Keyes, Reporter
KR = Kim Ross, Defence Lawyer for Douglas Garland

SK: We're here at the Garland property where, for the second day in a row, a police presence has resurfaced in a search for more evidence. We don't know what they've found, if anything, but the R.C.M.P. vehicle standing guard at the entrance is a reminder of the tragedy that struck the nation nine months ago.

Beyond this point, a team is searching for more evidence. It's hard to say just how many are scouring the property, but, the presence is significant. Last we heard, the parents of the accused, Douglas Garland, owned the property and had been living here. We know that, even with charges in the death of five year old Nathan O'Brien and his grandparents, Alvin and Kathy Liknes, that the investigation was ongoing. Their bodies have never been found.

Garland's Defence says, if new evidence is added to the case, there are two possible outcomes.

00:46
KR: It would depend on the nature of the evidence. If it's something that would be substantial, then it may impact the scheduling of that. But if it's something we can just deal with in the interim, we would just deal with it before the scheduled date.

00:59
SK: Police won't comment on the specifics of why they've come back, but all this is taking place about a month and a half before the preliminary hearing starts. It's scheduled to get underway May 19th.
Last edited by wendiesan; 04-01-2015 at 01:35 PM.
 
  • #618
Global News Calgary
Search of Douglas Property Intensifies Tuesday
http://globalnews.ca/video/1915068/s...ifies-tuesday/
Posted: March 31 2015 8:52 pm

This is not an official transcript, and is not connected to any of the participants.
It is a rough draft, and all errors are my own.

News Hour Calgary - Search of Douglas Property Intensifies Tuesday

NH = Nancy Hixt, Reporter

NH: On their hands and knees, some even laying down, it appears officers are combing through every blade of grass on this rural property. It's the third day in a row police have scoured the acreage in relation to the disappearance and murder of five year old Nathan O'Brien and his grandparents, Alvin and Kathy Liknes.

It's tedious work, and these officers have spent hours and hours doing this using their fingers and small hand rakes. Police won't tell us exactly what they're looking for. The land belongs to the parents of Douglas Garland who is charged with two counts of first degree murder and one count of second degree murder.

Investigators turned this place upside down last summer. Still, the bodies of the missing trio have never been found. But nine months, and several changes of season later, the landscape here has really changed. The long grass and lush green fields that officers walked through last summer, shoulder to shoulder, are now much easier to comb through. Even the trees are bare, making it easier for investigators to see and search every square inch.

The backyard behind the Garland house is currently marked off in a grid. There are markers all over the place and police are taking their time to cover off each of the marked sections. It's unclear if investigators are after some new piece of evidence or if they're just trying to improve their current case against Garland. Up until now, police have said this is all routine given Garland will have a preliminary inquiry in May.

A judge will have to decide if there's enough evidence in the case to order Garland to stand trial for the murder of Nathan, Alvin, and Kathy.

Nancy Hixt, Global News
 
  • #619
Global News Calgary
Calgary Police Collecting More Evidence
http://globalnews.ca/news/1910353/ca...ien-homicides/
Posted: March 29 2015 12:34 pm

This is not an official transcript, and is not connected to any of the participants.
It is a rough draft, and all errors are my own.

News Hour Calgary - Search of Douglas Property Intensifies Tuesday

NH = Nancy Hixt, Reporter JM = Jim Nevada, neighbour CH = Cherri Hodgins, best friend of Kathy Liknes

NH: Shoulder to shoulder, investigators scour this rural property northeast of Calgary. It's a scene that was almost commonplace last summer. But nine months later, to see investigators back, has taken neighbours by surprise.

00:13
JN: Obviously, they found something, but it's just nice for this group or those people down the road if this was to have a conclusion to it. And for the families.

00:22
NH: This is the acreage where Douglas Garland's parents live. For weeks, the acreage was turned upside down as forensic crews searched for clues in the disappearance of Nathan O'Brien and his grandparents, Alvin and Kathryn Liknes. Their bodies have never been found. In mid-July, Garland was arrested and charged with two counts of first degree murder and one count of second degree murder in their deaths.

The fact that police are back at the property is stirring up mixed emotions for the loved ones of Nathan, Alvin, and Kathy.

00:51
CH: If they've discovered something and they're following up on a lead, then, I'm going to presume that they're doing their jobs and that it will help, you know, the family to find closure in this whole tragedy. And, perhaps, there is something that they're following up on that is a key to finalization of this horrible crime.

01:07
NH: It's been a tough road for the family as they still hold out hope for answers.

01:11
CH: I miss her every day. There's not doubt about it. So, so, finding out suddenly that something is going on and they're following up--I don't know. I only have comfort knowing that the police are doing their absolute best.

01:24
NH: Investigators won't comment on the specifics of the search or what led them back to the property. Officially, Calgary Police say they're collecting additional evidence to support the upcoming court case.

Garland is scheduled to have a preliminary inquiry in May. Sources say he remains in protective custody, being bounced between the Calgary Remand Centre and Medicine Hat Remand Centre.

Investigators are expected to be at the Garland property for several more days.

Nancy Hixt, Global News
 
  • #620
Thank you Wendiesan, I don't know about you but the suspense is intense.
 
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