Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #20

[wendiesan]

One more transcript. No new information though.

For sure, Sheshcanada, this case has affected me emotionally. In part, because I have a grandson the same age as Nathan. I can only believe that Kathy Liknes and her husband died trying to protect Nathan because I can't imagine any grandparent not having the overwhelming need to do anything possible to protect his/her grandchild. And the coward that did this--at the moment I have no description for the emotions roiling up inside me. That he would deny Nathan's family, the Liknes family, the knowledge what he did to their loved ones' remains speaks volumes as to just what kind of creature he is.

The thought that Garland still has something with which he can keep hurting Nathan's Mom, Dad, and brothers in such a cruel way--plus the aunts, uncles, cousins, friends, teachers, classmates--sickens me. It's all compounded by the nightmares he's brought to the entire Liknes family. He's brought shame and disrepute to his own family. And his poor sister, knowing her brother has murdered her husband's parents and her nephew must be putting an incredible strain on the very relationship she needs most.

The suspense in Calgary, with only a month to go before the preliminary hearing, must be building every day.

Fantastic work by the Calgary police and their partners in continuing to hunt for even the tiniest clues that might be revealed now that the fields are more exposed. My bet is that they were searching for any depressions in the soil itself that might lead them to any items Garland couldn't burn in order to hide even more evidence.


CBC News- Calgary at 6
Still Searching
http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Canada/Calgary/ID/2661584896/
Posted: March 30, 2015

This is not an official transcript, and is not connected to any of the participants.
It is a rough draft, and all errors are my own.

CBC News- Calgary at 6
Host: Rob Brown = RB Reporter: Stephanie Wiebe = SW
Professor, Mount Royal University, Dept. of Justice Studies: Doug King = DK
Neighbour of Airdrie property: Jim Nevada = JN

00:23
RB: Still searching. Nine months after the disappearance of Nathan O'Brien and his grandparents, investigators continue to scour the prime suspect's property. We're asking why tonight.

04:02
RB: Police returned to Douglas Garland's property today. They're searching for clues into the deaths of Nathan O'Brien and his grandparents. Investigators had wrapped up their ground search in Airdrie at the end of last July, you'll recall, but now they are back. Stephanie Weib was also at the search site today.

SW: The search has resumed here at the acreage. Police officers first arrived Sunday to scour the property where Douglas Garland once resided. He is charged with two counts of first degree murder, and one of second degree murder, in the deaths of Alvin and Kathy Liknes and their grandson, Nathan O'Brien.

Officers searched the area and buildings around the home. Investigators aren't saying why the search has started again, but one criminology expert believes they could be looking for more evidence.

DK: The police may be getting ready to go on the stand to present evidence. It could be as simple as making sure they have everything in tow in terms of that kind of thing. It could be something much more significant in terms of more information that might lead them to want to check into something more.

SW: Neighbours say life was just starting to almost return to normal after the heavy police presence last summer. They, like many people, are looking for answers to what happened.

JN: I feel sorry for both sides, especially the side that, well, you know--that, that kid seemed pretty special, right? And when they had that hockey tournament, like, the whole community still talks about it. But it would just be nice to have some closure.

SW: Garland's parents are listed as owners of the property and are believed to still be living here. Douglas Garland remains in custody. A preliminary inquiry is set for May.

Stephanie Wiebe, CBC News, Airdrie

 

[stan laurel]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of what Stan was describing sounds like it would require an excavator to get at. There hasn't been a lot new reported today.

I was thinking about the line of groundswell and then it dawned on me that he could have gone to the end of the lines and dumped remains down the inspection line which takes you directly to where the thinnest liquid distributes into the field. here's the flaw for DG in this; for every 6 feet of pipe laid (and it sometimes varies), the pipe drops 1/4 to 1/2 inch to cause flow. If he dumped at the end of the pipeline the remains that he dumped could not go upstream, they would merely pool at that end of the pipe. Excavation would only be required at that end. Also the pipe that lets the viscous liquid out into the field has a line of holes that if looking down the pipe are at the positions of 8 o'clock and 4 o'clock, which allow even greater digestion even along the pipe. If solids even in pulverized form were added to the pipe, they would gather at the 6 o'clock position and not really have enough flow to lift them to the holes in the pipe. When doing a thorough cleaning, a backflow pressure washing and/or vaccuming of the pipe can be done,, so LE could get what they want this way.

 

[news.talk]

I was thinking about the line of groundswell and then it dawned on me that he could have gone to the end of the lines and dumped remains down the inspection line which takes you directly to where the thinnest liquid distributes into the field. here's the flaw for DG in this; for every 6 feet of pipe laid (and it sometimes varies), the pipe drops 1/4 to 1/2 inch to cause flow. If he dumped at the end of the pipeline the remains that he dumped could not go upstream, they would merely pool at that end of the pipe. Excavation would only be required at that end. Also the pipe that lets the viscous liquid out into the field has a line of holes that if looking down the pipe are at the positions of 8 o'clock and 4 o'clock, which allow even greater digestion even along the pipe. If solids even in pulverized form were added to the pipe, they would gather at the 6 o'clock position and not really have enough flow to lift them to the holes in the pipe. When doing a thorough cleaning, a backflow pressure washing and/or vaccuming of the pipe can be done,, so LE could get what they want this way.

Do you see any indications that LE is focusing on the septic system?

 

[stan laurel]

Do you see any indications that LE is focusing on the septic system?

If that picture is what I'm thinking, yes.

I'll add this reply to OOTD and it might get us thinking of DG's parents and what they might have experienced lately.

Zinc Phosphide.

http://www.chemnet.com/Global/Offer-to-Buy/Zinc-phosphide-260509.html

Hmmmmmm? It's used for rodent control and naturally occurs in compost/septic systems. However, if introduced to methane it becomes swamp gas and quite explosive. Here's a bit on phosphine gas that occurs in line with zinc phosphide/ite/ade when introduced to water and bio-organic chemical structures;

Abstract
Phosphine (PH3), was recently found worldwide even in the remote atmosphere (Naturwissenschaften83(1996a)131;
Atmos. Environ. 37(2003)24 29). It is of interest to find natural mechanisms which could produce phosphine gas and
drive a volatile link of the atmospheric phosphorus cycle and the formation of phosphoric acid as possible condensation
nuclei for clouds.
Here, we report on simulated lightning exposing sodium phosphate in a reducing medium (methane model
atmosphere or organic matter) for 5 s to a spark induced by microwave. The gas product analyzed by gas
chromatography contained phosphine (yield up to 0.6 g kg
1 phosphate P) and methylphosphine (CH3)PH2 (yield up to
0.02 gkg
1 phosphate P).
We suggest a plasma-chemical formation mechanism where organic compounds or methane or secondary hydrogen
thereof reduce phosphate to phosphine of which a small fraction can subsequently react with methyl radicals to form
methylphosphine. A small yield of 6mgphosphine per kgphosphate P was even obtained in methane free medium, by
simple plasmatic recombination of inorganic phosphorus. We believe that methane and hydrogen are useful model
substances of pyrolytic gases with high reducing power which may form if lightning strikes biomass, soil and aerosol.
These results suggest evidence that phosphine and methylphosphine (detectable in the field by intense garlic odor) are
produced when atmospheric lightning strikes the ground or aerosol which is containing oxidized forms of phosphorus
and chemical reductants.
Additional reviewed data show that laboratory lightning was able to reduce a much more significant portion of phosphate to
phosphite (up to 25% yield), methylphosphonic acid (up to 8.5% yield) and traces of hypophosphite in a matter of seconds.

http://epic.awi.de/11998/1/Gli2004a.pdf

If his parents smelled rotting fish or garlic over this warmer winter with little snow cover, and/or a micro explosion took place,, it could have lifted the turf.

[Not to be selfish, but WS should publish this ginormous thread to give people who might want to read it in book form a good idea of both crowd sourcing and free associative thinking]

 

[Lalalacasbah]

One more transcript. No new information though.

For sure, Sheshcanada, this case has affected me emotionally. In part, because I have a grandson the same age as Nathan. I can only believe that Kathy Liknes and her husband died trying to protect Nathan because I can't imagine any grandparent not having the overwhelming need to do anything possible to protect his/her grandchild. And the coward that did this--at the moment I have no description for the emotions roiling up inside me. That he would deny Nathan's family, the Liknes family, the knowledge what he did to their loved ones' remains speaks volumes as to just what kind of creature he is.

The thought that Garland still has something with which he can keep hurting Nathan's Mom, Dad, and brothers in such a cruel way--plus the aunts, uncles, cousins, friends, teachers, classmates--sickens me. It's all compounded by the nightmares he's brought to the entire Liknes family. He's brought shame and disrepute to his own family. And his poor sister, knowing her brother has murdered her husband's parents and her nephew must be putting an incredible strain on the very relationship she needs most.

The suspense in Calgary, with only a month to go before the preliminary hearing, must be building every day.

Fantastic work by the Calgary police and their partners in continuing to hunt for even the tiniest clues that might be revealed now that the fields are more exposed. My bet is that they were searching for any depressions in the soil itself that might lead them to any items Garland couldn't burn in order to hide even more evidence.


CBC News- Calgary at 6
Still Searching
http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Canada/Calgary/ID/2661584896/
Posted: March 30, 2015

This is not an official transcript, and is not connected to any of the participants.
It is a rough draft, and all errors are my own.

CBC News- Calgary at 6
Host: Rob Brown = RB Reporter: Stephanie Wiebe = SW
Professor, Mount Royal University, Dept. of Justice Studies: Doug King = DK
Neighbour of Airdrie property: Jim Nevada = JN

00:23
RB: Still searching. Nine months after the disappearance of Nathan O'Brien and his grandparents, investigators continue to scour the prime suspect's property. We're asking why tonight.

04:02
RB: Police returned to Douglas Garland's property today. They're searching for clues into the deaths of Nathan O'Brien and his grandparents. Investigators had wrapped up their ground search in Airdrie at the end of last July, you'll recall, but now they are back. Stephanie Weib was also at the search site today.

SW: The search has resumed here at the acreage. Police officers first arrived Sunday to scour the property where Douglas Garland once resided. He is charged with two counts of first degree murder, and one of second degree murder, in the deaths of Alvin and Kathy Liknes and their grandson, Nathan O'Brien.

Officers searched the area and buildings around the home. Investigators aren't saying why the search has started again, but one criminology expert believes they could be looking for more evidence.

DK: The police may be getting ready to go on the stand to present evidence. It could be as simple as making sure they have everything in tow in terms of that kind of thing. It could be something much more significant in terms of more information that might lead them to want to check into something more.

SW: Neighbours say life was just starting to almost return to normal after the heavy police presence last summer. They, like many people, are looking for answers to what happened.

JN: I feel sorry for both sides, especially the side that, well, you know--that, that kid seemed pretty special, right? And when they had that hockey tournament, like, the whole community still talks about it. But it would just be nice to have some closure.

SW: Garland's parents are listed as owners of the property and are believed to still be living here. Douglas Garland remains in custody. A preliminary inquiry is set for May.

Stephanie Wiebe, CBC News, Airdrie

Well said Wendiesan and thank you so much for the transcriptions.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

If that picture is what I'm thinking, yes.

I'll add this reply to OOTD and it might get us thinking of DG's parents and what they might have experienced lately.



Hmmmmmm? It's used for rodent control and naturally occurs in compost/septic systems. However, if introduced to methane it becomes swamp gas and quite explosive. Here's a bit on phosphine gas that occurs in line with zinc phosphide/ite/ade when introduced to water and bio-organic chemical structures;

Abstract
Phosphine (PH3), was recently found worldwide even in the remote atmosphere (Naturwissenschaften83(1996a)131;
Atmos. Environ. 37(2003)24 29). It is of interest to find natural mechanisms which could produce phosphine gas and
drive a volatile link of the atmospheric phosphorus cycle and the formation of phosphoric acid as possible condensation
nuclei for clouds.
Here, we report on simulated lightning exposing sodium phosphate in a reducing medium (methane model
atmosphere or organic matter) for 5 s to a spark induced by microwave. The gas product analyzed by gas
chromatography contained phosphine (yield up to 0.6 g kg1 phosphate P) and methylphosphine (CH3)PH2 (yield up to
0.02 gkg 1 phosphate P).
We suggest a plasma-chemical formation mechanism where organic compounds or methane or secondary hydrogen
thereof reduce phosphate to phosphine of which a small fraction can subsequently react with methyl radicals to form
methylphosphine. A small yield of 6mgphosphine per kgphosphate P was even obtained in methane free medium, by
simple plasmatic recombination of inorganic phosphorus. We believe that methane and hydrogen are useful model
substances of pyrolytic gases with high reducing power which may form if lightning strikes biomass, soil and aerosol.
These results suggest evidence that phosphine and methylphosphine (detectable in the field by intense garlic odor) are
produced when atmospheric lightning strikes the ground or aerosol which is containing oxidized forms of phosphorus
and chemical reductants.
Additional reviewed data show that laboratory lightning was able to reduce a much more significant portion of phosphate to
phosphite (up to 25% yield), methylphosphonic acid (up to 8.5% yield) and traces of hypophosphite in a matter of seconds.

http://epic.awi.de/11998/1/Gli2004a.pdf

If his parents smelled rotting fish or garlic over this warmer winter with little snow cover, and/or a micro explosion took place,, it could have lifted the turf.

[Not to be selfish, but WS should publish this ginormous thread to give people who might want to read it in book form a good idea of both crowd sourcing and free associative thinking]

If there was risk of something being explosive, would this be why the tactical unit is assisting?

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

[Not to be selfish, but WS should publish this ginormous thread to give people who might want to read it in book form a good idea of both crowd sourcing and free associative thinking]

... and don't forget the sexy cameo from Sam Elliot.

 

[stan laurel]

... and don't forget the sexy cameo from Sam Elliot.

Samantha Elliot may contain the word man, but...

 

[stan laurel]

If there was risk of something being explosive, would this be why the tactical unit is assisting?

if he dumped zinc phosphate into the septic system it would create phosphine and then mixed with the methane would create swamp gas which would come up thru the ground and potentially flare or combust. though, not being able to blow out up at the tank, it could blow out the pipe and cause a collapse of the line and then the toilets would stop working and the sink, and the tub would stop draining and the tank outflow would start flowing/seeping up. just thoughts.

btw,, I looked at historical's and the pipe that lois was curious about was there but not the lifted length of turf or turf pushed over near the tree. maybe another fly over scan was done and this turf-lift was noticed.?.?.?

 

[stan laurel]

like some have mentioned; if not for Nathan and not for the green truck, we would be still sleuthing panama, mexico and beyond.

how can we introduce a "green truck" to other cases we are sleuthing? "green truck" as a euphemism for that which we could never know.

does anyone get where I'm going with this? if not for the truck, dg would be doing dg things in his dg world. are there other dg's who did not get caught on cctv and us sleuthers are stuck sleuthing mexico's?

dg, cctv's and mexico's are euphimism's too.

 

[LoisLane]

like some have mentioned; if not for Nathan and not for the green truck, we would be still sleuthing panama, mexico and beyond.

how can we introduce a "green truck" to other cases we are sleuthing? "green truck" as a euphemism for that which we could never know.

does anyone get where I'm going with this? if not for the truck, dg would be doing dg things in his dg world. are there other dg's who did not get caught on cctv and us sleuthers are stuck sleuthing mexico's?

dg, cctv's and mexico's are euphimism's too.

Time will tell. I have a running list that I have dug into.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

I know what you mean and I agree to an extent...

But for every 50 people that were swindled for a million dollars maybe only 1 of them would kill over it and chances are they have a personality disorder, otherwise the other 50 people would've killed that person as well.

Usually when a person kills they usually participate in other deviant behavior throughout their life and not always illegal or criminal (even just being a long term liar). To me it comes down to - if it's in you, it's in you. I'm a firm believer in gray areas as well and each case/crime is different, but there's a lot of people who no matter what, would not look at killing as an option or choice ever.

I've formed my opinion mostly from learning and hearing about criminology and criminal behavior from a family member, so it's hard for me to shake when I have this engrained in me from an early age ack! To be fair, I feel like I've had some life experience and crossed paths with some shady folks long ago (through a work place) that have contributed and form how I feel as well.

I guess it's JMO. To each their own, it's a complicated and not black and white subject, so interesting to discuss though!

There is a documentary on a triple murder in Texas. I think the point of it was to act as an anti-capital punishment statement, but if you watch intently, is actually a fascinating study on denial, motivation, justification, remorse, perception and death. I do believe it was called "Into The Abyss".

 

[deugirtni]

All of this zinc stuff is way over my head, along with most of the septic stuff.... but.. it sparked another thought.. which is why discussion about *everything* is good. One thought sparks another, etc.

I find that most sleuthers seem to be pretty much always focusing on DG's own property...

Police are there again.. for whatever reason, whether it is to get that one piece of tangible, hard evidence that can better promote their theory in a few weeks at the hearing when it will be determined if they have enough evidence to proceed to trial - whether their 'test drive' can yield the hoped-for results.. or whether something occurred at Airdrie to prompt them to come out again..

But...

What if they are there again as an offshoot of something else that may have occurred or been found elsewhere in the area (by area, I mean within, say, a couple of hours of Airdrie)..

I still think that even though DG had however many days it was that he had before LE showed up at his door to check out the green truck, to completely obliterate all signs of the trio, it still just wasn't enough to do it 100%.. and have nothing be found of the trio.

and

I still think that if he was half as smart as he is suggested to be, he wouldn't bring the evidence back to his own home.. doesn't make sense, to me at least..

While he had those few days, he could have gone virtually anywhere.. to dispose or, or take care of the evidence.. away from his own home.. he could have gone daily over those few days, to some other place.

I'm wondering if something was found elsewhere, like in someone else's septic.. or someone else's well.. or an abandoned well was found, or opening of some kind in the ground somewhere else out in the country, that perhaps had signs of something..

Or some kind of event occurred, or was found to have potentially occurred, like some kind of evidence of explosion (small) elsewhere..

Or someone somewhere finally checked their own property or wells or septic tank or something, and something was found in the meantime..

Or as someone mentioned, something could have been seen by the planes overhead, that was changed somewhere, which could have prompted further investigation, and could have been found to have some kind of a potential link worth investigating..

I'm curious about the 'tactical team' being present.. were they present in the summer when they examined the property? I know that in addition to regular CPS, they had RCMP, SAR, forensic suits, I believe biohazard suits, K9 workers, and that big honkin boat, but did they also have the tactical team there?

Did I read something about taking small boxes out this time during their search?..

It's possible that something that may not have necessarily made sense to LE back in the summer, may be starting to make some sense now, or may be seen to have some kind of association with something else that may have occurred elsewhere more recently, which prompted a re-visit to go back to fetch something from Airdrie.

Is there anything else that zinc phosphate is used for? DG likely had a lot of farm chemicals and products and fertilizers at his disposal, due to his property and his business.. some of which can become explosive. It would even make more sense to me that he somehow blew them up, as opposed to 'dissolving' them... but maybe something like that didn't happen right away?

Has anything else been noted in the news over the past 9 months, like an unexplained explosion somewhere, or a kind of heavy police presence which police haven't elaborated on? Is it possible he could have already known about some kind of abandoned small well or something somewhere, where he could have placed the trio, along with some kind of chemical that would erupt after festering for a few months.. somewhere out of the way and perhaps unnoticed.. all safely contained?

I'm thinking that due to the sudden absence of any further reporting on police presence in Airdrie, they have left the site.. as of Tuesday? Have there been any further reports since then? If LE didn't want the media presence, would media oblige? Especially since, didn't LE themselves issue the statement to media alerting them that they would be there in the first place? I doubt if media would just walk away and stop reporting and interviewing whoever they could stick a microphone in front of, just because they were asked, after being kind of invited to begin with. So I think they must have left at the end of the last reporting which I believe was on Tuesday?

Did they find what they were looking for so quickly? It's weird to me that if they thought there was something to be found somewhere within some part of the septic system at Airdrie, they wouldn't have dug up that whole yard, carefully, after examining it with fine tooth comb.. wouldn't they dig up the beds and have a look in the entire tank to see if anything was there to be found? If small bits came out of the septic beds.. how would they find their way to the 'top' of the lawn, as opposed to underneath? I'm confused about that part. Wouldn't digging help? Why does there not apear to be any digging going on, whether by hand or with machine?

 

[news.talk]

All of this zinc stuff is way over my head, along with most of the septic stuff.... but.. it sparked another thought.. which is why discussion about *everything* is good. One thought sparks another, etc.

I find that most sleuthers seem to be pretty much always focusing on DG's own property...

Police are there again.. for whatever reason, whether it is to get that one piece of tangible, hard evidence that can better promote their theory in a few weeks at the hearing when it will be determined if they have enough evidence to proceed to trial - whether their 'test drive' can yield the hoped-for results.. or whether something occurred at Airdrie to prompt them to come out again..

But...

What if they are there again as an offshoot of something else that may have occurred or been found elsewhere in the area (by area, I mean within, say, a couple of hours of Airdrie)..

I still think that even though DG had however many days it was that he had before LE showed up at his door to check out the green truck, to completely obliterate all signs of the trio, it still just wasn't enough to do it 100%.. and have nothing be found of the trio.

and

I still think that if he was half as smart as he is suggested to be, he wouldn't bring the evidence back to his own home.. doesn't make sense, to me at least..

While he had those few days, he could have gone virtually anywhere.. to dispose or, or take care of the evidence.. away from his own home.. he could have gone daily over those few days, to some other place.

I'm wondering if something was found elsewhere, like in someone else's septic.. or someone else's well.. or an abandoned well was found, or opening of some kind in the ground somewhere else out in the country, that perhaps had signs of something..

Or some kind of event occurred, or was found to have potentially occurred, like some kind of evidence of explosion (small) elsewhere..

Or someone somewhere finally checked their own property or wells or septic tank or something, and something was found in the meantime..

Or as someone mentioned, something could have been seen by the planes overhead, that was changed somewhere, which could have prompted further investigation, and could have been found to have some kind of a potential link worth investigating..

I'm curious about the 'tactical team' being present.. were they present in the summer when they examined the property? I know that in addition to regular CPS, they had RCMP, SAR, forensic suits, I believe biohazard suits, K9 workers, and that big honkin boat, but did they also have the tactical team there?

Did I read something about taking small boxes out this time during their search?..

It's possible that something that may not have necessarily made sense to LE back in the summer, may be starting to make some sense now, or may be seen to have some kind of association with something else that may have occurred elsewhere more recently, which prompted a re-visit to go back to fetch something from Airdrie.

Is there anything else that zinc phosphate is used for? DG likely had a lot of farm chemicals and products and fertilizers at his disposal, due to his property and his business.. some of which can become explosive. It would even make more sense to me that he somehow blew them up, as opposed to 'dissolving' them... but maybe something like that didn't happen right away?

Has anything else been noted in the news over the past 9 months, like an unexplained explosion somewhere, or a kind of heavy police presence which police haven't elaborated on? Is it possible he could have already known about some kind of abandoned small well or something somewhere, where he could have placed the trio, along with some kind of chemical that would erupt after festering for a few months.. somewhere out of the way and perhaps unnoticed.. all safely contained?

I'm thinking that due to the sudden absence of any further reporting on police presence in Airdrie, they have left the site.. as of Tuesday? Have there been any further reports since then? If LE didn't want the media presence, would media oblige? Especially since, didn't LE themselves issue the statement to media alerting them that they would be there in the first place? I doubt if media would just walk away and stop reporting and interviewing whoever they could stick a microphone in front of, just because they were asked, after being kind of invited to begin with. So I think they must have left at the end of the last reporting which I believe was on Tuesday?

Did they find what they were looking for so quickly? It's weird to me that if they thought there was something to be found somewhere within some part of the septic system at Airdrie, they wouldn't have dug up that whole yard, carefully, after examining it with fine tooth comb.. wouldn't they dig up the beds and have a look in the entire tank to see if anything was there to be found? If small bits came out of the septic beds.. how would they find their way to the 'top' of the lawn, as opposed to underneath? I'm confused about that part. Wouldn't digging help? Why does there not apear to be any digging going on, whether by hand or with machine?

What I tend to go on is based on facts of law. In order for LE to execute a search warrant, they first have to prove in the ITO that they have sufficient evidence that what they are looking for, will be found. They cannot go on endless fishing expeditions. The first ITO likely included DNA from the truck. They connected the truck from the CCTV footage - I speculate they have more pictures than was shown, possibly with 'something' in the back. They would have had to have new evidence to obtain a new warrant, which could be based on information obtained during depositions, or as speculated - A new development.

The Tactical Unit is brought in sometimes when they need the manpower for executing a warrant. It could be that they had a tight timeline to work with or needed extra bodies. They may have also been called in if there is concern with hazardous materials.

As far as the media - No, they wouldn't leave if asked... If anything, that would make them MORE inclined to stay.

As for DG initially bringing the bodies there - I really think he felt he would never get caught... He was smarter than everyone. He was dumb enough to drive his own vehicle to the murder scene, he was likely dumb enough to bring them back home. He probably felt safer disposing or dealing with remains in the privacy that an acreage provides...Again, thinking he would never get caught. He may not have if not for the CCTV footage from a house under construction. He couldn't have possibly imagined that possibility. Guess he isn't as smart as he thinks.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

There is a documentary on a triple murder in Texas. I think the point of it was to act as an anti-capital punishment statement, but if you watch intently, is actually a fascinating study on denial, motivation, justification, remorse, perception and death. I do believe it was called "Into The Abyss".

Thanks, sounds interesting, will see if I can get it on Netflix. I'm behind on movies these days (so many to see and never enough time), and have a list going, but will add that one to it!

 

[wendiesan]

There is a documentary on a triple murder in Texas. I think the point of it was to act as an anti-capital punishment statement, but if you watch intently, is actually a fascinating study on denial, motivation, justification, remorse, perception and death. I do believe it was called "Into The Abyss".

For more info on the movie,
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1972663/

The director, Werner Herzog, clearly states he is against the death penalty, and places the emphasis of his questions on the "why" of killing. Why did the murderers kill three people, quite possibly at random? Why has the state decided to kill only one of the two?

Plot summary: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1972663/plotsummary?ref_=tt_stry_pl

 

[deugirtni]

Sorry to quote myself, but further to recent posts regarding the province's ME's contract not being renewed and Sauvageu's lawsuit and concerns about things being amiss within the ME department, she had mentioned:

She also claimed firearms went missing from the office’s evidence room because of a lack of chain of custody policies and that an employee who worked under her predecessor took a firearm home “for personal use.”
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Former+chief+medical+examiner+fires+back+Alberta+Justice+latest+lawsuit+filing/10874593/story.html

It seems the CPS suffers from perhaps the same lack of oversight, or 'checks and balances', or SOP's that the ME's office is being accused of. Last night an officer who had illegally taken home a gun, supposedly for cleaning, has been stolen from his vehicle.

Theft of Calgary police rifle from car makes senior cop 'sick to my stomach'
http://www.airdrieecho.com/2015/04/05/patrol-rifle-stolen-from-calgary-cops-personal-car

This is only relevant to this case due to prior conversations regarding the integrity of CPS and transparency of ME office, etc.

Wow, incredible, I had not heard about her non-renewal.

I really hope that an unbiased party with ethics does a complete review of this woman's allegations. Her allegations do not seem far fetched at all, imho. I hope she took copies of her 'evidence' with her before she was not renewed and presumably escorted out of her office.

I know just from working all of my life, that things go on in most places of work that aren't supposed to go on, and that government legislation has become a nightmare to deal with, however all of the private companies are supposed to act according to regulations, so why shouldn't the government itself also have to oblige. And these things aren't minor in nature.

It is interesting to me to read about her concerns regarding the changes that can be made within the computer system without there being a trace. Where i work we have what is considered to be a 'high tech' management system, but a few years ago errors were being discovered, and when I investigated as to why/how/who they were happening, we discovered that we had a rogue employee who was just smart enough to know a little bit, and he was making 'corrections' to his mistakes, but without telling anyone. His 'corrections' were completely invisible to see within this 'high tech sytem'. I mean... the corrected version would show up, but it would not say when it got changed, by whom, from what. Our system and business of course is minor in nature compared to the importance of what Ms. Sauvageau is talking about, and we always expect that those in authority know what they're doing. I can envision when I read this news article, how that type of thing can happen. It is all in the programming, implementation of checks and balances, access permissions, and oversight from higher ups. If someone is not on his/her toes, he/she would never know this problem existed. It sounds like Ms. Sauvageau, for as difficult as she may have seemed to be in getting along with others, was able to look into it and find these lapses and oversights, and she was likely seen as a problem for wanting these things to be corrected.

On another point in the article, I remember reading several years ago locally, a newspaper article about who it is exactly that picks up the dead bodies from crime scenes if they have been murdered, for transport to the morgue for autopsy. It isn't an ambulance, and it isn't a hearse. It talked about some fellow who did this for a living. I can easily see how just 'someone' might be hired.. because perhaps he's one of few offering such a service. What ARE his credentials? Likely none, and possibly from the shady side, because who would really want to have to do that? Who knows? I believe Ms. Sauvageau is right in that these people are not just picking up the things that nobody else wants to do, they hold an extremely important job in the preservation of critical evidence, and if something were to be altered somehow, who would ever know, and who is held accountable? If they hire criminals to perform such services, who is to say they aren't making additional monies on the side for add-on services? Criminals seem to know one another.... jeez what a thought!

The detail that she has given into the things that are wrong, give weight to her concerns, imho, enough to suggest they are much more than just retaliation against her non-renewal, although I'm sure they will want to present it like that in court as their defence (if it even ever reaches a courtroom, which I doubt). When you think that people could be sent away for 25 years or more of their lives based on evidence which could have been manhandled, it's a scary thought!

 

[lynck]

human remains found near leduc

http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/rcmp-investigating-after-human-remains-found-in-the-leduc-area-1.2343873

 

[news.talk]

human remains found near leduc

http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/rcmp-investigating-after-human-remains-found-in-the-leduc-area-1.2343873

"A resident in the area told Global News they saw forensic investigators in the area of Secondary Highway 623 and Range Road 240 on*Monday."

----

The Edmonton suspect drives a truck, a van, or a sport utility vehicle as opposed to a car, and that he is comfortable driving in rural areas.*
The vehicle is suitably maintained and likely has a significant amount of mileage.*
The suspect cleans the inside and outside of the car at times that are perhaps unusual.*
The vehicle may be used for work and outdoor activities such as hunting, fishing or farming.*
He may live or work, or have friends or family in areas south of Edmonton such as Leduc, Camrose, New Sarepta or surrounding communities.

The fact that many of the bodies have been left in easy-to-find places could be a telling detail about what type of person police are seeking, according to Elliott Leyton, a Newfoundland-based forensic anthropologist and expert on serial killers.

"It's just a contempt for what they are dumping, a contempt for the police and tremendous respect for themselves," he said. "That's a significant part of the kick these guys get out of this is the cockiness: the feeling that they are fooling and taunting the authorities. The whole 'Look, I did it again, you morons.' "



^^^ We have discussed this before, but that sounds so much like DG....

 

[lynck]

a further media release coming before end of day monday, according to most of the media reports out there