Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #20

[wendiesan]

My 2 cents worth -
LE looked to see if there were any links between DG and murder victim HM, whose body was dumped in a rural area near Airdrie in 2007. The common thread I see here that would make LE look at DG is "rural Airdrie". To my knowledge, nothing came of that investigation.
HM struggled with drug addiction. She was not involved in prostitution. I don't know that Project KARE ever linked her into their investigation, but I believe prostitution is the common link between Project KARE victims.

There are lots of bad guys in the world. The fact that DG is an alleged murderer does not, imo, make him a more likely suspect in the Project KARE cases. The victims are so different - prostitutes/high risk lifestyles versus affluent grandma and grampa (whose grandson was in the wrong place at the wrong time) The murder of the Ls was likely premeditated, the prostitute murders likely crimes of opportunity (that is, any prostitute he could get his hands on would have been sufficient for the killer's needs)

To be fair, we could look at almost anyone convicted of murder in Alberta and say "if he's capable of these murders, he might have committed all these other murders too" - but it just does not ring true for me. Just my opinion. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I take issue with your use of the phrase "in the wrong place at the wrong time". Nathan was not wandering a street in downtown Calgary at 3:00 in the morning in his pyjamas. His mother didn't misplace him. He wasn't running away, He wasn't snooping or spying or playing with dangerous weapons. He was with his grandmother and grandfather in a good home in a decent neighbourhood and he was more than likely sleeping.

Victim blaming is a nasty game, and, however innocuous that phrase may seem to you, it is part of shifting the responsibility from where it should lie--on the perpetrator's shoulders, in the perpetrator's twisted mind--to the judgement of a little boy, or the judgement of his mother. By extension, this phrase is putting the burden of her son's death onto Nathan's mother. It implies that somehow she misjudged the dangers involved in letting him sleep overnight with two people who loved him and whom he loved. It suggests that there was a way to foretell that disaster was a logical outcome of being in that home that evening, and that she missed the signs of danger and placed her son in the path of a stone cold killer.

Going by the different charges, LE does not believe that Nathan's death was premeditated. However, the guilt for this heinous act belongs solely to the murderer. Nathan's death carries the same weight, the same responsibility as the deaths of his grandparents. It should not be minimalized as just something that happened because the victim, or the victim's mother, made a mistake in judging the situation, the location, the potential for deadly force to enter their lives.

The narcissistic psychopath (who still punishes Nathan's parents by refusing to divulge the details of his crime) should not, IMO, be given even the smallest sliver of justification. As though it wasn't his fault that he killed that beautiful little boy. As though the fault was Nathan's for falling asleep with his grandparents. As though the fault was with Nathan's mother for wanting to let him stay where he was comfortable, somehow equating her concern with neglect.

The murderer had choices, and, when faced with the presence of innocence made the decision to destroy rather than retreat. He had no mercy for the people he killed, and, in turn, deserves none. Not even the slightest hint that the burden of his responsibility could be lessened by the actions of any other human being.

 

[Slebby]

I take issue with your use of the phrase "in the wrong place at the wrong time". Nathan was not wandering a street in downtown Calgary at 3:00 in the morning in his pyjamas. His mother didn't misplace him. He wasn't running away, He wasn't snooping or spying or playing with dangerous weapons. He was with his grandmother and grandfather in a good home in a decent neighbourhood and he was more than likely sleeping.

Victim blaming is a nasty game, and, however innocuous that phrase may seem to you, it is part of shifting the responsibility from where it should lie--on the perpetrator's shoulders, in the perpetrator's twisted mind--to the judgement of a little boy, or the judgement of his mother. By extension, this phrase is putting the burden of her son's death onto Nathan's mother. It implies that somehow she misjudged the dangers involved in letting him sleep overnight with two people who loved him and whom he loved. It suggests that there was a way to foretell that disaster was a logical outcome of being in that home that evening, and that she missed the signs of danger and placed her son in the path of a stone cold killer.

Going by the different charges, LE does not believe that Nathan's death was premeditated. However, the guilt for this heinous act belongs solely to the murderer. Nathan's death carries the same weight, the same responsibility as the deaths of his grandparents. It should not be minimalized as just something that happened because the victim, or the victim's mother, made a mistake in judging the situation, the location, the potential for deadly force to enter their lives.

The narcissistic psychopath (who still punishes Nathan's parents by refusing to divulge the details of his crime) should not, IMO, be given even the smallest sliver of justification. As though it wasn't his fault that he killed that beautiful little boy. As though the fault was Nathan's for falling asleep with his grandparents. As though the fault was with Nathan's mother for wanting to let him stay where he was comfortable, somehow equating her concern with neglect.

The murderer had choices, and, when faced with the presence of innocence made the decision to destroy rather than retreat. He had no mercy for the people he killed, and, in turn, deserves none. Not even the slightest hint that the burden of his responsibility could be lessened by the actions of any other human being.

In my post, I was comparing MOs of the killer(s) of the Project KARE victims versus the different (IMO) MO of the murders of the Ls and NO. In the Project KARE cases, I believe (my opinion) that the murder victims were chosen fairly randomly, versus the Ls, who were targeted for a particular reason. NO was not part of the target or plot, he just happened to be there.

I was not victim blaming (or mother blaming) to say NO was in the wrong place at the wrong time, but rather simply saying it was incredibly unlucky or bad timing that he happened to be at his grandparents the very day a murder plot was unfolding.

I have never considered the phrase "in the wrong place at the wrong time" to be a victim blaming statement. If I walked into my bank when a robbery was in progress and I took a stray bullet, I would consider it fair to say I didn't do anything to deserve it, I was just "in the wrong place at the wrong time".

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/american-english/in-the-wrong-place-at-the-wrong-time

As for your last 3 paragraphs of your post - no argument here. There are no words to adequately describe the evil of this crime, and I pray justice will be served.

IMO




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

I take issue with your use of the phrase "in the wrong place at the wrong time". Nathan was not wandering a street in downtown Calgary at 3:00 in the morning in his pyjamas. His mother didn't misplace him. He wasn't running away, He wasn't snooping or spying or playing with dangerous weapons. He was with his grandmother and grandfather in a good home in a decent neighbourhood and he was more than likely sleeping.

Victim blaming is a nasty game, and, however innocuous that phrase may seem to you, it is part of shifting the responsibility from where it should lie--on the perpetrator's shoulders, in the perpetrator's twisted mind--to the judgement of a little boy, or the judgement of his mother. By extension, this phrase is putting the burden of her son's death onto Nathan's mother. It implies that somehow she misjudged the dangers involved in letting him sleep overnight with two people who loved him and whom he loved. It suggests that there was a way to foretell that disaster was a logical outcome of being in that home that evening, and that she missed the signs of danger and placed her son in the path of a stone cold killer.

Going by the different charges, LE does not believe that Nathan's death was premeditated. However, the guilt for this heinous act belongs solely to the murderer. Nathan's death carries the same weight, the same responsibility as the deaths of his grandparents. It should not be minimalized as just something that happened because the victim, or the victim's mother, made a mistake in judging the situation, the location, the potential for deadly force to enter their lives.

The narcissistic psychopath (who still punishes Nathan's parents by refusing to divulge the details of his crime) should not, IMO, be given even the smallest sliver of justification. As though it wasn't his fault that he killed that beautiful little boy. As though the fault was Nathan's for falling asleep with his grandparents. As though the fault was with Nathan's mother for wanting to let him stay where he was comfortable, somehow equating her concern with neglect.

The murderer had choices, and, when faced with the presence of innocence made the decision to destroy rather than retreat. He had no mercy for the people he killed, and, in turn, deserves none. Not even the slightest hint that the burden of his responsibility could be lessened by the actions of any other human being.

Putting words in people's mouths is a nasty game as well. The well known phrase "wrong place, wrong time" has absolutely nothing to do with victim blaming, and is a description of someone simply being somewhere they normally wouldn't be, when something that normally wouldn't happen, happened. Nothing more.

You would have to search long....very long... and very hard to find someone who would fault NO, or his mother.

 

[news.talk]

Putting words in people's mouths is a nasty game as well. The well known phrase "wrong place, wrong time" has absolutely nothing to do with victim blaming, and is a description of someone simply being somewhere they normally wouldn't be, when something that normally wouldn't happen, happened. Nothing more.

You would have to search long....very long... and very hard to find someone who would fault NO, or his mother.

Actually.... There were MANY people that criticized JO for not "being emotional enough" and even suggested that she was involved.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Actually.... There were MANY people that criticized JO for not "being emotional enough" and even suggested that she was involved.

... and knowing what we know now... is anyone speculating anything close to that?

If you dismiss any analysis as "victim bashing", then you evolve about as quickly as if you were to settle on "the lord works in mysterious ways" for everything else.

People, are capable of thinking.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

One could even cry foul for the "intellectual bashing". God forbid people think and try to understand, rather than reaching for the childish explanation of "good" and "evil". The poster even calls it a "choice"... no possession or otherworldly power... why did he choose to commit this crime? It's a fair question.

 

[news.talk]

... and knowing what we know now... is anyone speculating anything close to that?

If you dismiss any analysis as "victim bashing", then you evolve about as quickly as if you were to settle on "the lord works in mysterious ways" for everything else.

People, are capable of thinking.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think there is ANY victim bashing meant here.

 

[lynck]

Remains found south of Edmonton were determined to belong to a sex trade worker, unrelated to this case. Updated her page too.

http://www.thompsoncitizen.net/ente...0-years-discovered-in-alberta-woods-1.1867040

 

[kaley]

Wow. I have been gone for a long time, party because as a mother with young children, this case was very heartbreaking for me but also because I wanted to wait until May to check back to read everyone's comments on the hearing. It looks like a bit has happened. Now I am hooked again. Hello again everyone

 

[debsy99]

"Body found in Bow River... Death is not suspicious."

https://www.facebook.com/CalgaryPolice?fref=nf

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Wow. I have been gone for a long time, party because as a mother with young children, this case was very heartbreaking for me but also because I wanted to wait until May to check back to read everyone's comments on the hearing. It looks like a bit has happened. Now I am hooked again. Hello again everyone

Hello and welcome back I'm partly dreading hearing information/details on this one (I have a young child as well), but I just have to know since it got under my skin so much. I want to hear the evidence against the accused and need to know if justice will be served.

 

[news.talk]

Hello and welcome back I'm partly dreading hearing information/details on this one (I have a young child as well), but I just have to know since it got under my skin so much. I want to hear the evidence against the accused and need to know if justice will be served.

Don't expect to be hearing any details anytime soon. I suspect there will be a publication ban on the preliminary hearing as to not taint a potential jury. Standard proceedure. Of course you may hear things privately.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Don't expect to be hearing any details anytime soon. I suspect there will be a publication ban on the preliminary hearing as to not taint a potential jury. Standard proceedure. Of course you may hear things privately.

I am terribly curious about any thing coming up with this story. I'm even curious about how DG acts in the courtroom, I hope we get to hear about his demeanor a bit so we can grasp a tidbit of his personality. I'm also curious which if any, family members will be there to represent Nathan (probably RO) and the Liknes' (probably ALJr).

 

[deugirtni]

It's coming up SOON (finally!), so who from WS will be attending DG's prelim hearing? (BBM)

.... the court set a two week hearing that is to begin May 19.

....

The preliminary inquiry will determine whether there's enough evidence to send the case to trial.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/douglas-garland-s-preliminary-hearing-set-for-next-may-1.2011553

 

[news.talk]

It's coming up SOON (finally!), so who from WS will be attending DG's prelim hearing? (BBM)



http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/douglas-garland-s-preliminary-hearing-set-for-next-may-1.2011553

Moi and hopefully Cherchri will be there.

 

[deugirtni]

I know that KL's friend CH returned to her position at the daycare back in February. The site current lists her as being off on leave, but not sure if it was never updated to show her returned to her position, or if this means she is on another leave. In any case, just wondering if she will be able to attend the prelim hearing. If not on leave, I would imagine it would be difficult in her position to get 2 weeks off, although I suppose it could be taken in vacation time.

I am terribly curious about any thing coming up with this story. I'm even curious about how DG acts in the courtroom, I hope we get to hear about his demeanor a bit so we can grasp a tidbit of his personality. I'm also curious which if any, family members will be there to represent Nathan (probably RO) and the Liknes' (probably ALJr).

 

[deugirtni]

So just the two of you? I hope you guys will keep us all as informed as possible. I know you won't be able to report on items covered under the presumed publication ban, however there will undoubtedly still be lots of other things to report on.

Moi and hopefully Cherchri will be there.

 

[deugirtni]

I just checked to see how much to fly or otherwise travel from Toronto to Calgary, dang, I can't believe how expensive it is. I would love to be able to attend with you guys!

 

[JadeSLeuth]

Moi and hopefully Cherchri will be there.

I work one block away from the courthouse. I don't know that I'll be able to slip away to attend, but certainly will be close by and will see the comings and goings. I wonder if there will be a crowd of folks going, and/or any media interviews out front.

 

[kaley]

Is it court day?