Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #20

[winnnancy]

Is there such thing as too much evidence? Or, is it going the other way and it's unnecessary?

I'm so curious.
Is it possible the PB will be lifted after the prelim?

 

[LoisLane]

Is there such thing as too much evidence? Or, is it going the other way and it's unnecessary?

I'm so curious.
Is it possible the PB will be lifted after the prelim?

My guess is if it is lifted it will be during the trial. If there is a trial.

 

[news.talk]

Hello

I hope no one has been sitting in the preliminary hearing and spilling on a forum. The preliminary hearing is closed, and no one who has sat in court during the preliminary hearing can comment; not even on a forum.

When is the trial?

Have you had a chance to go down there? I was only present for a couple hours, but hopefully you got to attend more of the days so that we can discern what evidence is excluded in the actual trial.

 

[kittymeow]

Have you had a chance to go down there? I was only present for a couple hours, but hopefully you got to attend more of the days so that we can discern what evidence is excluded in the actual trial.

So is anyone from the public allowed to attend? If so, what hours of the day is it? I would be interested to attend if it's permitted.

 

[news.talk]

So is anyone from the public allowed to attend? If so, what hours of the day is it? I would be interested to attend if it's permitted.

It is open to the public. It starts at 9:30 and tomorrow is the last day.

 

[wendiesan]

My guess is if it is lifted it will be during the trial. If there is a trial.

There are two types of publication bans (statutory and non-statutory) which affect what information can become public knowledge during the course of a preliminary hearing or a trial. So, IIRC, some bans may be in place throughout the full length of a court proceeding.

http://j-source.ca/article/know-rules-about-publication-ban-covering-courts

This appears to be a statutory ban instituted at the request of the defence, and could not be refused by the judge. It should be noted that even if DG were to confess or make any admission as to his involvement, a statutory ban (which may not be mentioned, but which will exist) would prevent any journalist or member of the public from publishing that fact. Similarly, during a trial, an automatic statutory ban prevents publication of any information that comes to light when the jury (is this is a trial by jury) is not present.

Non-statutory bans are a category of restrictions known as judge-made bans, which means the decision on whether to restrict and to what extent the media can publish information is determined on a case-by-case basis. While judges have discretion in this area, they are not without guidelines. The case that has had the most influence in creating the test all courts now apply when considering whether to impose a judge-made publication ban is Dagenais v. CBC. It is a case all reporters need to understand.

 

[Jess]

Breaking news on CTV - no link yet. He has now been charged with 3 counts of First Degree Murder. Will stand trial.

 

[Jess]

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/dougla...-deaths-of-calgary-boy-grandparents-1.2394314

CALGARY -- A man accused of killing a boy and his grandparents nearly one year ago has been ordered to stand trial.
Douglas Garland was arrested last year following the disappearance of Alvin and Kathy Liknes (LIK'-ness) and five-year-old Nathan O'Brien.
Alberta Judge Bob Wilkins ruled there was sufficient evidence presented at a preliminary inquiry to send Garland, who is 55, to trial.
RELATED STORIES
Calgary preliminary hearing continues for Douglas Garland
Garland faces three counts of first-degree murder, although the bodies of the couple and their grandson have not been found.
Garland originally faced second-degree murder in relation to the boy's death, but the charge was upgraded.
Nathan was sleeping over with his grandparents last June after they held an estate sale at their Calgary home in advance of a move to Edmonton and then Mexico.
When the boy's mother arrived the next morning to pick him up, no one was home and a search began.
CTVnews.ca

 

[greenthumb]

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/douglas-garland-to-stand-trial-in-deaths-of-calgary-boy-grandparents-1.2394314

Alberta Judge Bob Wilkins ruled there was sufficient evidence presented at a preliminary inquiry to send Garland, who is 55, to trial.
Garland faces three counts of first-degree murder, although the bodies of the couple and their grandson have not been found.
Garland originally faced second-degree murder in relation to the boy's death, but the charge was upgraded.

 

[LoriMcA]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...er-charge-in-nathan-o-brien-s-death-1.3090169

http://www.newstalk770.com/2015/05/27/garland-ordered-to-stand-trial-in-deaths-of-obrien-liknes/

http://globalnews.ca/news/2021062/d...l-for-murders-of-calgary-couple-and-grandson/

 

[Slebby]

I wonder if the reason for the upgraded charge to 1st degree from 2nd degree relates to the fact that the 3rd murder (presumably NO) happened in the commission of another crime? Specifically either the pre-meditated murder of the Ls, or perhaps a planned robbery of the Ls. I can't think of another reason.

The upgraded murder charge tells me they have some pretty compelling evidence.
IMHO


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[newone]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...er-charge-in-nathan-o-brien-s-death-1.3090169

http://www.newstalk770.com/2015/05/27/garland-ordered-to-stand-trial-in-deaths-of-obrien-liknes/

http://globalnews.ca/news/2021062/d...l-for-murders-of-calgary-couple-and-grandson/

Thanks!! back in court July 31 -- trial date to be set at that time acc to your links

 

[Slebby]

Actually, as I think about it, I wonder if NO was taken alive to the acreage then murdered there. There has to be some point in an abduction where the killer decides to murder the captive, and perhaps therein lies the pre-meditation - when the killer decides his captive must die.
Makes me so sad to consider.
IMO


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[Lalalacasbah]

I wonder if the reason for the upgraded charge to 3rd degree from 2nd degree relates to the fact that the 3rd murder (presumably NO) happened in the commission of another crime? Specifically either the pre-meditated murder of the Ls, or perhaps a planned robbery of the Ls. I can't think of another reason.

The upgraded murder charge tells me they have some pretty compelling evidence.
IMHO


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You mean upgraded to 1st degree right? I am wondering this as well and wondering if it's a legal extension they can apply if DG maybe knew NO would be there? Maybe if he was casing the house and saw NO through a window, he would know he was there?? Very curious.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Actually, as I think about it, I wonder if NO was taken alive to the acreage then murdered there. There has to be some point in an abduction where the killer decides to murder the captive, and perhaps therein lies the pre-meditation - when the killer decides his captive must die.
Makes me so sad to consider.
IMO


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I truly hope this isn't the case, it makes me sick to think this. Then it would almost make one wonder if NO was a target? I really hope he was not kidnapped as the thought of him being at the acreage for days would be extremely sad knowing how scared he would've been.

 

[greenthumb]

I am speculating that the charge for murder of NO has been upgraded to first degree because NO was killed when under forcible confinement as per Canada's Criminal Code. I am assuming that being held in the house would be 'forcible confinement' - or perhaps there is evidence (video?) that NO was kidnapped & taken from the house?

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/section-231.html

Hijacking, sexual assault or kidnapping

(5) Irrespective of whether a murder is planned and deliberate on the part of any person, murder is first degree murder in respect of a person when the death is caused by that person while committing or attempting to commit an offence under one of the following sections:
(a) section 76 (hijacking an aircraft);
(b) section 271 (sexual assault);
(c) section 272 (sexual assault with a weapon, threats to a third party or causing bodily harm);
(d) section 273 (aggravated sexual assault);
(e) section 279 (kidnapping and forcible confinement); or
(f) section 279.1 (hostage taking).

BBM

 

[Slebby]

You mean upgraded to 1st degree right? I am wondering this as well and wondering if it's a legal extension they can apply if DG maybe knew NO would be there? Maybe if he was casing the house and saw NO through a window, he would know he was there?? Very curious.

Oops, sorry, upgraded from 2nd to first.
Thanks for catching that.


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[greenthumb]

http://calgaryherald.com/news/crime/garland-ordered-to-stand-trial-for-nathan-obrien-and-his-grandparents

Garland had been charged with second-degree murder in the death of Nathan, but the judge determined there was sufficient evidence that a jury could also convict him of the higher charge.

The evidence and reasons for the judge’s decision cannot be reported because of a publication ban.

BBM

Sufficient evidence - that is good to hear.

 

[kittymeow]

Attended about 30 minutes of the hearing today. Wish I could do more but I didnt realize until last night that the public can attend. I work just a few minutes from the courts so I watched on part of my lunch break. Very interesting, never been like that before. It was weird seeing Garland in person too. Glad the family is going to get justice after the judges decision to go to trial today.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Attended about 30 minutes of the hearing today. Wish I could do more but I didnt realize until last night that the public can attend. I work just a few minutes from the courts so I watched on part of my lunch break. Very interesting, never been like that before. It was weird seeing Garland in person too. Glad the family is going to get justice after the judges decision to go to trial today.

What were your personal impressions of DG? Or maybe you can't say, not sure how publication bans work or if you can post your opinion, so no pressure to answer!