Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #21

[Gibson67]

Hi all, just catching up on this thread..been awhile since I've followed any cases since the Bosma Trial. Will there be different threads for each day of the trial? Will day #3 just continue from here? I am pretty shocked at what has been revealed so far about this case..it is interesting how they seem to be dropping random pieces of information here and there..not sure why they do this. I guess it is not much different than the Bosma case, where they would put statements out there similar to the hose being left on leading us on a wild theory goose chase lol

 

[Tealgrove]

Whatever DG felt, i.e, he'd been ripped off by Alvin, etc., other avenues were available to voice his displeasure. DG could have sued, could have called police when he maintained he had been stolen from.

There is nothing in this whole scenario that warrants the level of depravity and violence that occurred.

A bad business deal gets resolved through discussion and if that doesn't work you go to court and have a judge decide. You don't spend years researching ways, to torture and murder people.



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[Krystine]

It's unlikely healthcare would pay for this kind of expensive weekly consult. Psychiatrists mainly consult these days, and may see a patient once to diagnose or prescribe, their hourly is astronomical.
It could be the family paid for his care out of pocket.

 

[Linike]

My opinion regarding the diabetes is to discount any valid reason for syringes to be on the premises of the farm.
Again, my opinion would be that there will be evidence introduced that syringes were found. What they were used for at this point is pure speculation.
Horrific .........for all.

 

[Linike]

In my opinion, Garland did not 'go over the edge'..........the evidence shows a pattern of a life that has been not normal.

 

[Linike]

Diaper question already alluded to.............he had a liking for women in diapers................

 

[Slebby]

There seems to be a misconception here that Garland was fired because he didn't respond to a phone call about the breakdown of the truck. This seems to be first suggested here in post #205 as a theory that some have latched onto it as a fact.

However, that's not what was said by Allen. The truck didn't figure into the discussion about the relationship breakdown and there was no mention of needing Garland's help with a vehicle problem. Garland was asked for help with a project and he didn't help.

It sounds to me that the relationship may already have been strained and that Garland was already ignoring Alvin when Alvin "fired" him. Post #285 on pg 19 has the best record I can find of the tweets from court. I'll copy a small section here. Read from bottom to top:


Between 2007-2010 Allen and #Garland had somewhat of a relationship, but when Doug brought up being let go, Allen said they stopped talking.
By November 2007 "he had enough of him at that point" Allen said about Alvin's feelings towards #Garland. #yyc
Allen says #Garland only worked on the controller aspect of the pump. #yyc
Already at this point in 2006-2007 Allen says the pump had become "uneconomical." #Garland #yyc
#Garland was let go by Alvin as contractor for their company when Allen says Doug ignored a call for help from Alvin. #yyc
Allen says relationship changed after Alvin let #Garland go for not helping with a project. "He asked him for help and he didn't help him."
At first, Allen says #Garland and Alvin had a "good working relationship" that lasted about a year.

Thanks for the clarity.
Also, we don't have AL here to tell his side of the story.
It sometimes happens that someone is "hired" to do a job, and they take too long or in some other way, don't do the job well. It appears DG got obsessively fixated on the unfairness of it all. I have yet to see any evidence it was justified. We only have the word of an alleged triple murderer with a criminal record.
IMO


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[CentralAlberta]

I disagree. I do not think this could have been avoided. Douglas would have killed someone, anyone eventually because I think he obsessed and fantasized about torture and murder and wanted to act it out one way or another in his life.

He fixated his attention on Alvin and it escalated to include Kathy in his plan and eventually little Nathan. If he had simply "snapped" he could have got a gun and did a mass shooting of the whole family. He obsessed over gruesome acts, meticulously planned and I think enjoyed this. If it wasn't the Liknes' who were his victims it would've been someone else who was in his life path that "wronged" him. I think he was a time bomb waiting to go off period, JMO.

ITA. I also question if someone could do the things crown is presenting on their first kill. Wouldn't a killer get Desensitized over time and get gorier?

 

[Coldpizza]

Douglas Garland triple-murder trial to hear testimony from first responders
January 18, 2017
By Nancy Hixt

WARNING: This article contains graphic content that some readers might find disturbing.

The Calgary police officers who first visited Alvin and Kathy Liknes’ home after they and their five-year-old grandson Nathan O’Brien disappeared are expected to testify in court on Wednesday morning.

http://globalnews.ca/news/3187872/first-responders-will-testify-on-3nd-day-of-triple-murder-trial/

 

[JadeSLeuth]

Whatever DG felt, i.e, he'd been ripped off by Alvin, etc., other avenues were available to voice his displeasure. DG could have sued, could have called police when he maintained he had been stolen from.

There is nothing in this whole scenario that warrants the level of depravity and violence that occurred.

A bad business deal gets resolved through discussion and if that doesn't work you go to court and have a judge decide. You don't spend years researching ways, to torture and murder people.



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Well stated!

 

[Georgeo]

Hi all, just catching up on this thread..been awhile since I've followed any cases since the Bosma Trial. Will there be different threads for each day of the trial? Will day #3 just continue from here? I am pretty shocked at what has been revealed so far about this case..it is interesting how they seem to be dropping random pieces of information here and there..not sure why they do this. I guess it is not much different than the Bosma case, where they would put statements out there similar to the hose being left on leading us on a wild theory goose chase lol

So true.... we never did find out what the hoses had to do with the Bosma case. Perhaps it was for the LB or WM upcoming cases?

 

[JadeSLeuth]

I'll be out all morning and won't be able to share tweets, hopefully someone can step in (or you guys can enjoy a little piece and quiet without my running commentary lol)
Back this afternoon!

 

[otto]

It's unlikely healthcare would pay for this kind of expensive weekly consult. Psychiatrists mainly consult these days, and may see a patient once to diagnose or prescribe, their hourly is astronomical.
It could be the family paid for his care out of pocket.

Given that the psychiatrist who met with Garland once a week was completely unable to understand his state of mind, someone deserves a full refund.

 

[otto]

Thanks for the clarity.
Also, we don't have AL here to tell his side of the story.
It sometimes happens that someone is "hired" to do a job, and they take too long or in some other way, don't do the job well. It appears DG got obsessively fixated on the unfairness of it all. I have yet to see any evidence it was justified. We only have the word of an alleged triple murderer with a criminal record.
IMO


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BBM

What we've learned so far is not from the accused.

"[Patti] said that Douglas was unhappy about business dealings with Alvin and Allen Liknes and that he seemed to become more bitter as time passed."

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/family-of...s-at-triple-murder-trial-in-calgary-1.3244720

From the tweets yesterday, we know that the pump was being built on Garland's property.

We know that Garland has accused the victim of theft, and that the suspect's father stated that Liknes owed his son money and that Liknes stole from the Garland property.

I'm of the opinion that Garland was so angry that he was looking for ways to retaliate. Rather than someone who would start committing murder in his 50s regardless of circumstances, this was anger that caused him to need psychiatric care, and to eventually lose touch with reality.

It was an unresolved dispute that Garland couldn't move past, and Liknes did not attempt to resolve.

 

[Slebby]

BBM

What we've learned so far is not from the accused.

"[Patti] said that Douglas was unhappy about business dealings with Alvin and Allen Liknes and that he seemed to become more bitter as time passed."

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/family-of...s-at-triple-murder-trial-in-calgary-1.3244720

From the tweets yesterday, we know that the pump was being built on Garland's property.

We know that Garland has accused the victim of theft, and that the suspect's father stated that Liknes owed his son money and that Liknes stole from the Garland property.

I'm of the opinion that Garland was so angry that he was looking for ways to retaliate. Rather than someone who would start committing murder in his 50s regardless of circumstances, this was anger that caused him to need psychiatric care, and to eventually lose touch with reality.

It was an unresolved dispute that Garland couldn't move past, and Liknes did not attempt to resolve.

"What we've learned so far is not from the accused" - true, but it's based on what DG told other people, like his sister and parents. So, yes, it is from the accused.
IMO


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[Tealgrove]

I learned from the Bosma trial that as much as the tweets keep us in the loop A LOT is lost in either the translation, or additional information that did not get tweeted.

Our perception on the evidence is skewed by our reliance on tweets and the quality of the tweets.

Since I have followed numerous trials "by tweet", I'm reticent to read too much into individual tweets and I find it really difficult right now to decide who was in the wrong regarding the business deal gone bad. All we have is what other people are saying was said, and how other people felt.

We don't have Alvin, and DG has, at least for now, chosen not to speak, so we only know via tweet what people supposedly said and felt.

For now, I'm going with an unresolved business issue (without fault by either party) that blew up into something that is beyond the pale.

MOO

 

[Tealgrove]

"What we've learned so far is not from the accused" - true, but it's based on what DG told other people, like his sister and parents. So, yes, it is from the accused.
IMO


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Agreed, however, how reliable is that information from DG? His mother has told us he had a breakdown at University. He sees a psychiatrist every Monday. How much stock can we put into DG's information?

 

[otto]

"What we've learned so far is not from the accused" - true, but it's based on what DG told other people, like his sister and parents. So, yes, it is from the accused.
IMO


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Garland does not agree that this was a 'petty grudge', and Patti was under the influence of Allen Liknes at the time of the business dispute. Still, Patti states that there was a dispute with both Allen and Alvin. She knew this independent of what she was told. That is also true of statements from Garland's father related to where the pump was built.

Regarding information that the senior Garland's were on vacation at the time of the murders, if memory serves me, that came from their church - very likely a simple statement to protect the couple that was never meant to be taken literally (as in, obviously 80 years olds don't go camping).

 

[KMouse]

Psychiatric care is covered by health care. Psychologists are not but Psychiatrists are.

 

[Tealgrove]

Psychiatric care is covered by health care. Psychologists are not but Psychiatrists are.

I was pretty sure they were. Thanks for looking that up.