Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #21

[otto]

You would have to question the integrity of the ashes as evidence if it's been sitting out there for 9 months. Strange.

Wasn't there some skin and a tooth near the burn barrels?
I doubt there's anything in the burn barrels that identifies the victims.

 

[LoisLane]

He didn't.

There's info in the Christie Blanchford article.

Read the article now.

First she makes this statement: Douglas — and she and Garland’s father referred to him always with his full name, as it seems parents the world over do — is intelligent, she said, and they used to talk about books together. “But he didn’t discuss his problems with me.”

But, yesterday when Archie was testifying he referred to DG as "Dougie". Which was a tweet so maybe the reporter did that but I doubt it. It demonstrates the young child that a father sees or is used to calling him that. Anyway that bugs me.

As for the dentist visit that I wonder about... it could be that Archie had a dental visit close to the time of the emergency room visit for the abcess so maybe it will play in.. who knows.

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-c...of-accused-killer-douglas-garland-tells-trial

Bill Graveland Verified account  ‏@BillGraveland · Jan 17
#Garland said there was a falling out over the work done on the pump. "Alvin didn't pay Dougie some money and that didn't sit well".

 

[olivebpa1]

I think I'm missing something here.


I don't understand why LE went back to the farm 9 months later to retrieve ashes. Why didn't they take them in the beginning?

I'm confused by that too. I was under the impression they knew they were burned after the first search. They found the barrell still smouldering and skin. You'd think they would have searched everything right away. Did they get a tip to search more?

 

[olivebpa1]

Does anyone else's heart break every time the crown mentions a small tooth or a small bloody hand print? If they weren't alluding to it being from Nathan i feel they wouldn't specify it being small.

 

[Leeesh]

Does anyone else's heart break every time the crown mentions a small tooth or a small bloody hand print? If they weren't alluding to it being from Nathan i feel they wouldn't specify it being small.

Omg yes....every single time 😢💔

 

[cee_]

Lucas MeyerVerified account ‏@meyer_lucas 60m60 minutes ago
Alexon now going over a quilt taken from the spare bedroom with what appears to be blood spots #Garland #yyc

Valerie Fortney ‏@ValFortney 54m54 minutes ago
Alexon they detected a small handprint on quilt found in the house after testing it. #yyc #Garland

Bill GravelandVerified account ‏@BillGraveland 55m55 minutes ago
Constable Alexon said when a blood test was done on a quilt found at the murder scene - they could see a small handprint. #Garland

Kevin MartinVerified account ‏@KMartinCourts 52m52 minutes ago
Police found what they believed to be a small hand print on a bloodied quilt from the spare bedroom of the Liknes home. #garland

Hi, did anyone else notice that Bill Graveland referred to the Liknes home as "the murder scene?"

I don't think there's been anything other than speculation about who was dead/alive at the time of transportation to DG residence- or did I miss something?

Thanks to everyone who's been posting the trial tweets to us!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CentralAlberta]

Does anyone else's heart break every time the crown mentions a small tooth or a small bloody hand print? If they weren't alluding to it being from Nathan i feel they wouldn't specify it being small.

yup. I have this fantasy that NO was killed in his sleep and then I am jolted back to reality when I read such things.

 

[LoisLane]

Thinking back to the spring search of the Garland acreage there was coverage and photo's of investigators going through the ground on their hands and knees with a fine tooth comb. There were also markers on the lawn close to the house and I think we discussed it being related to the septic system and possibly they had an issue and maybe matter was appearing or something like that... technical stuff I would never understand.

Here is CTV coverage.. I think the Sun had pics of AL and his son at the scene as well during the spring search. It all seemed odd. Personally, I think it has to do with DNA of other victims.
http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/evidence-collection-continues-at-garland-acreage-1.2304408

"Seeking further evidence for Douglas Garland’s upcoming trial, Calgary police once again carted items out of buildings on the accused killer’s family property and lined up shoulder-to-shoulder to sweep the grounds."
http://www.airdrieecho.com/2015/03/31/police-search-for-more-clues-on-liknes-property

 

[kdgdid]

Christie Blatchford has her own video commentary from Calgary for this trial embedded in her National Post articles. I recommend watching them.

She comments that both Garlands parents are quite spry, especially Mrs.Garland.

Megan from CBC has a comment regarding Mr. Garland having TWO daughters and a son. Have we heard about another daughter?

I have a retired Uncle who is RCMP living in the area of this crime. I know he must be beyond revolted by it, as we all are.

Thinking of all involved in this trial. Thankful for the coverage and that jurors sit to render justice. But I can't help wonder how many victims of Garland there are? Not just prior murder victims, but those who are harmed by being exposed to the details of this horrific case.

The other daughter is a nurse who lives in WA with her husband. She appears to be in the middle of DG and Patti age wise

 

[JadeSLeuth]

I thought this was a nice pic posted to twitter today. Too bad DG's pic is also in the tweet...

[video=twitter;821866905287979010]https://twitter.com/CheSkulskiCTV/status/821866905287979010[/video]

Jumping ahead so someone may have already done this, but here ya go (did that work??)!

 

[JadeSLeuth]

I'm not sure I would put much into DG's father's testimony....he is hard of hearing and to me it just seemed like he was just agreeing with what they were asking him and didnt seem to remember much about timeliness and details IMO. But it's very possible DG definitely waited for his parents to go to bed before he left the acreage. It would make more sense anyways.

Seems to me the CCTV shots of the truck were timestamped around 12 midnight... ? Anyone?

 

[kams]

I'm confused by that too. I was under the impression they knew they were burned after the first search. They found the barrell still smouldering and skin. You'd think they would have searched everything right away. Did they get a tip to search more?

In my own opinion, I believe that the barrels that were retrieved in the springtime were other barrels from the farm. LE likely took the smoldering barrel into evidence right away but then went back to look for more evidence, and at that time they took the other barrels to sift through in the off chance that further fragments could be found.

We reside near the Garland farm...makes me so sad to know that this was occurring there and no one had any idea. Not even the people living with DG.

 

[subwaydreaming]

This is my first time following a case so closely, so please excuse if this is a silly question...

Will all the evidence/theories against DG eventually come out in the trial? Or does the Crown ever hold back details in order to spare the family's feelings? Just wondering if at the end of the five weeks will we have a full picture of what happened?

 

[deugirtni]

Originally Posted by deugirtni It is possible that in addition to his mental health status, his 'never holding down a job' and still living with his parents may be attributed to the difficulty one might have in obtaining meaningful work in their desired/trained field when they have a criminal record which includes prison time. Additionally, with his parents being now in their mid 80s, and considering the size of their property, I can imagine they were likely happy to have DG take on some of the property chores, which in return, could have saved them from spending the money to pay someone else to do it. Just guessing, but I'll bet DG was on 'disability' (due to mental health issues?), which would have given him at least some money, and his living there may have made sense for all parties, under the circumstances

.

He worked at a post-secondary institution in Vancouver under a false identity with false credentials for years.

Yes, I suppose I should have specified, 'difficulty one might have in obtaining meaningful work in their desired/trained field using their real identity when they have a criminal record which includes prison time.' - my post was in response to another's post which I believe was referencing the years after he got out of prison and lived at his parents' home.

 

[otto]

I'm confused by that too. I was under the impression they knew they were burned after the first search. They found the barrell still smouldering and skin. You'd think they would have searched everything right away. Did they get a tip to search more?

Maybe police didn't know for sure that they were burned until they saw the aerial photos.

 

[sublimemumma]

This is my first time posting so hopefully i'm doing this right. My first thought was maybe nathan wet the bed which is why they took the pajama pants off and moved up to the spare bedroom.

Very good point!

 

[otto]

Hi, did anyone else notice that Bill Graveland referred to the Liknes home as "the murder scene?"

I don't think there's been anything other than speculation about who was dead/alive at the time of transportation to DG residence- or did I miss something?

Thanks to everyone who's been posting the trial tweets to us!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think it's speculation by the prosecution as well. The bloody drag marks might suggest that someone was still bleeding - don't know. It's certainly more gruesome to suggest that they were transported alive to the acreage, tortured, murdered, cut up and burned, but I think it's equally possible that they died at the Liknes home. Contents of hard drive are not evidence of torture, but it is odd that Kathryn's DNA is on meat hooks.

 

[otto]

Seems to me the CCTV shots of the truck were timestamped around 12 midnight... ? Anyone?

I had always thought that it was later - closer to 4AM - because of the light. Midnight would be very dark.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Maybe I'm reading too much into things and sorry if this is graphic (isn't it all though with the details we've learned), but IIRC the description of the aerial photo say Alvin and Kathy were nude, prone face down in the field and Nathan curled up.

Does anyone else find the description odd? If they were temporarily disposed or put in the field, I doubt careful consideration was done as to their positioning. So I guess what I'm wondering is were they put there to slowly succumb to their injuries/bleed out (most children and even adults I would think put themselves in a fetal position when scared or suffering) or was Nathan placed in that position? If DG was reckless and in a hurry I doubt Nathan would be curled up is all…wouldn't they all just been 'dumped' there?

It's an unpleasant thought and question but one that's been bugging me.

ETA - my thought is more because it sounds like the adults may have been handled carelessly and just put there but perhaps Nathan he carefully placed there. I guess I'm hoping he had some bizarre sense of mercy towards the child.

 

[otto]

This is my first time following a case so closely, so please excuse if this is a silly question...

Will all the evidence/theories against DG eventually come out in the trial? Or does the Crown ever hold back details in order to spare the family's feelings? Just wondering if at the end of the five weeks will we have a full picture of what happened?

The crown will present all the evidence that is necessary for a conviction. In order to secure a conviction and appropriate sentence, the full extent of the crime needs to be presented in court.