Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #22

[otto]

Unless he dosed them with something or if he went back to clean up after taking them to the farm.

It's a fairly safe bet that the router was turned off at 2:10AM, so that is when Garland entered the Liknes house. He was at home at 7AM. Travel time is probably 30-40 minutes each way. Working backwards from 7AM, he had roughly 3.5 hours to attack the three victims, move them out of the house and into his vehicle, remove the victims from his vehicle to some place on the acreage, secure the victims if they were not mortally wounded (doubtful), and appear for breakfast as though it was a normal day.

I don't think he made two trips.

Regardless, he dragged three bleeding people out of their house in the middle of the night onto their front driveway and put them in his truck - leaving a trail of blood along the sidewalk beside the house. That took time. There is nothing sneaky about that, and that does not strike me as a brilliant murder plot.

 

[YYC]

The way I understood that testimony was that Allen was trying to establish that DG was a paid contractor, as opposed to working without compensation in return for potential future remuneration when/if the pump and patent succeeded. (Not sure if being paid for work would preclude DG from being also listed as a contributor on the patent though?). Then when DG's father reported DG saying he hadn't been paid, it may not have meant 'ever', or 'anything', but could have just been one time, one invoice, part of one bill, whatever.

If the pump had been successful (which I don't think we know whether it was or it wasn't, whether in its then-current iteration or a later one), it could have been worth a LOT of money... ongoing.

It sounded to me from testimony given to date however, that DG was more upset about having been let go, rather than his work on the patent. Either way, it may have been more meaningful to him in the way of future job/business prospects, if he could show his name as a contributor on a patent, or receive a good reference, or develop a reputation in the industry perhaps, for being good at that type of work, etc?

From testimony given to date, it seemed like DG had made a point about AL and AL stealing from him, about AL not paying him for work performed, and about being fired, but I don't remember reading anything about him complaining about his name not being on a patent. (I could have missed it because lots to read). More may be coming in that regard?

Allen (Alvin's son) was common-law with Garland's sister, so it's very likely that Alvin knew about Garland's criminal history prior to entering into business with him.

Garland doesn't strike me as the sort of person who would do something for nothing, or for a few dollars an hour. I'm of the opinion that he chose to put his time into the design of the pump because he believed there was something in it for him. We don't know the nature of their work agreement, but we do know that the business was not properly concluded at the time that the work was completed. Allen can claim that Garland was fired, but we know that the project was completed at that time because the wiring schematics that would have been completed by Garland were sufficient for a patent. We also know that the pump was used, but that - as you point out - the market couldn't support the cost. That doesn't mean that the patent will not be a viable solution in the future.

This is how I see the timeline of AL/DG business relationship (just my opinion):
- Alvin has an idea, need to develop a prototype that won't break the bank
- his son Allen is helping him
- they need a partner - someone to design controller board and they need a shop
- Alvin suggests DG, he is knowledgeable, has time, and is looking for job
- Alvin talks to DG, he presents his idea and a prospect of earning a lot of money in not too distant future
- DG is very interested and offers his shop at the farm
- they talk about money but Alvin explains that he cannot pay him right away but after he starts making money from the pump
- they don't have a contract
- everything goes well in the beginning
- DG is nervous about the pay and wants a guarantee that he will get paid
- DG would like to be listed as a co-owner of the patent, but Alvin does not act
- Alvin finds DG to be slow and difficult
- relationship is worsening
- Alvin thinks it was a mistake to hire DG in the first place
- Alvin decides to pay off DG and fires him
- Alvin takes the part of the pump system from DG's shop
- DG feels that Alvin used him
- Alvin does not make money (or does not make much money) off the pump

 

[deugirtni]

Allen Liknes stated at the beginning the Garland held a grudge over not being included on the patent, and that's the only reason we know that he was not included.

I looked at all the tweets of Allen's testimony and I couldn't see anywhere where he was saying that DG held a grudge about the patent or was upset about not being named on the patent. I also didn't hear anyone else later go on to say that DG had ever complained about that (although Allen and others did report that DG had expressed being upset about other things such as not being paid for work done, Alv and All stealing from the farm, and Alvin letting him go).

The prosecution and the defence questioned Allen all about the pump, but I can only seem to find the Crown stating that DG had held a grudge about not being included on the patent. I think the only reason we know he wasn't included, is because the Crown has said so, and that he was upset about it. The Crown's remarks are not evidence.
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@MetroLucie
Faulkner says #Garland planned the murders b/c of a "petty grudge" he held against Alvin Liknes for a patent if a pump they worked on. #yyc
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@NancyHixt
Faulkner: "This trial is about a petty grudge that Douglas #Garland held against Alvin Liknes”

Crown tells jury #garland kept his grudge against Alvin Liknes alive. Said Garland researched torture and autopsies and mapped their home
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@CBCMeg
"This trial is about a petty grudge that Douglas #Garland held against Alvin Liknes -- a grudge that lasted for years"

CROWN: Grudge was "all about a patent" for a pump that #Garland did some work on. It never really made any money, never made anyone famous
=======
@BillGraveland
Prosecutor Vicki Faulkner says #Garland was acting on a long held "grudge" that he worked on for years.
=======
@ReidFiest
Crown says this trial is about a petty grudge between Douglas #garland and Alvin Liknes.

Crown says #Garland was upset over a pump Alvin Liknes has got a patent over. Crown says Garland worked on this pump. #yyc
=======
@KMartinCourts
It was a pretty grudge by Douglas Garland over Alvin Liknes that led to a triple murder, Crown says.

Crown says fact Alvin and Kathy were planning to move forced Douglas Garland to act on his deadly plan.
=======
@ValFortney
"This trial is about a petty grudge ... a grudge that lasted for years" says Crown.

Allen Liknes had already told police about grudge #garland had towards his father.

Crown said 3 deaths are all b/c of a pump patent, a pump that made no money, a pump #garland helped on and that "didn't make anyone famous"
=======

 

[Georgeo]

DG held a very strong grudge! Feeling wronged manifested itself into a bigger and bigger issue in DG's mind. Depressed and mentally ill, he dwelled on the grudge until it consumed his thoughts and he felt like he hath act on it before the victims moved away....... running out of time. Had to get revenge. His life was a failure and disappointment. Very surprised he isn't pleading the insanity plea. He would have been smarter to do so, but clearly didn't listen to legal advice. This guy was a walking time bomb. Wonder how many others are out there, just like him Scary thought

 

[YYC]

It's a fairly safe bet that the router was turned off at 2:10AM, so that is when Garland entered the Liknes house. He was at home at 7AM. Travel time is probably 30-40 minutes each way. Working backwards from 7AM, he had roughly 3.5 hours to attack the three victims, move them out of the house and into his vehicle, remove the victims from his vehicle to some place on the acreage, secure the victims if they were not mortally wounded (doubtful), and appear for breakfast as though it was a normal day.

I don't think he made two trips.

Regardless, he dragged three bleeding people out of their house in the middle of the night onto their front driveway and put them in his truck - leaving a trail of blood along the sidewalk beside the house. That took time. There is nothing sneaky about that, and that does not strike me as a brilliant murder plot.

I am not familiar with the cabin of this old model of Ford truck, but it does not seem large enough to fit 3 persons. Does it have a bucket seat that can be taken out or not?

 

[PrincessButtercup]

I am not familiar with the cabin of this old model of Ford truck, but it does not seem large enough to fit 3 persons. Does it have a bucket seat that can be taken out or not?

I had a very similar one, the front seat is a bench seat that will seat 3 comfortably and behind is a small, narrow bench seat that can fold out flat for cargo (great for kids at the drive-in, lol)

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

 

[YYC]

I had a very similar one, the front seat is a bench seat that will seat 3 comfortably and behind is a small, narrow bench seat that can fold out flat for cargo (great for kids at the drive-in, lol)

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

Thank you PrincessButtercup.

I looked at some photos of older Ford trucks and some of them have another small window behind passenger door and some not. I reckoned that only those with that small window have a back seat bench.
Also, probably bucket seats didn't exist at that time, so a bench would make more sense.

 

[YYC]

It's a fairly safe bet that the router was turned off at 2:10AM, so that is when Garland entered the Liknes house. He was at home at 7AM. Travel time is probably 30-40 minutes each way. Working backwards from 7AM, he had roughly 3.5 hours to attack the three victims, move them out of the house and into his vehicle, remove the victims from his vehicle to some place on the acreage, secure the victims if they were not mortally wounded (doubtful), and appear for breakfast as though it was a normal day.

I don't think he made two trips.

Regardless, he dragged three bleeding people out of their house in the middle of the night onto their front driveway and put them in his truck - leaving a trail of blood along the sidewalk beside the house. That took time. There is nothing sneaky about that, and that does not strike me as a brilliant murder plot.

I agree, it doesn't strike me either as a brilliant murder plot. He could have parked a half of a mile away, walk to the residence and walk back unnoticed, but he was confident that he can pull this out. He not only risked a CCTV camera recording his truck, but he even parked his truck for several minutes right in front of the house/garage.

It baffles me why he decided to snatch the bodies of his victims in the first place.
a) if he ever gets caught it would be much harder to build a case against him without bodies.
(he didn't expect to be arrested in such a short time obviously thanks to CCTV, Patty and excellent work by the police).
b) perhaps he wanted Alvin to see his revenge and make him suffer much more instead of simply taking out his life
(it is unclear if Alvin and Kathy ever regained their consciousness following such severe blows to their heads.
Perhaps he didn't plan such hard blows, but he could not keep an eye on both victims in the first minute).
c) perhaps he feared leaving behind his DNA, for example under fingernails of the victims.

Any thoughts?

 

[Cherchri]

Allen (Alvin's son) was common-law with Garland's sister, so it's very likely that Alvin knew about Garland's criminal history prior to entering into business with him.

Garland doesn't strike me as the sort of person who would do something for nothing, or for a few dollars an hour. I'm of the opinion that he chose to put his time into the design of the pump because he believed there was something in it for him. We don't know the nature of their work agreement, but we do know that the business was not properly concluded at the time that the work was completed. Allen can claim that Garland was fired, but we know that the project was completed at that time because the wiring schematics that would have been completed by Garland were sufficient for a patent. We also know that the pump was used, but that - as you point out - the market couldn't support the cost. That doesn't mean that the patent will not be a viable solution in the future.

Interestingly the patent was registered by the look of things long before DG was hired (he was hired to assist with the wiring btw):
Method and apparatus for removing water from well-bore of gas wells to permit efficient production of gas
Publication number: 20020007953
Abstract: Method and apparatus for removing water from a gas well to permit efficient production of gas while protecting formation from introduced pressures. The apparatus comprises a check valve that seals the casing from production zone when hydrostatic pressure of water from production accumulates in casing above production perforations and checkvalue exceeds formation pressure. When the casing is sealed, a compressor pressurizes gas into the casing but not an exhaust conduit, the top of the casing being sealed around the exhaust conduit, permitting communication between the conduit and a suitable destination, such as via liquid separators on into sale pipeline. Accumulated water is caused to flow into the bottom of the exhaust conduit and out at surface to collection. When pressure within the sealed casing to the top end of exhaust conduit is equalized, the checkvalve opens and regular production can resume.
Type: Application
Filed: June 14, 2001
Publication date: January 24, 2002
Inventor: Alvin C. Liknes

The link for this and another patent in the name of Alvin Liknes: http://patents.justia.com/inventor/alvin-c-liknes

 

[JadeSLeuth]

I agree, it doesn't strike me either as a brilliant murder plot. He could have parked a half of a mile away, walk to the residence and walk back unnoticed, but he was confident that he can pull this out. He not only risked a CCTV camera recording his truck, but he even parked his truck for several minutes right in front of the house/garage.

It baffles me why he decided to snatch the bodies of his victims in the first place.
a) if he ever gets caught it would be much harder to build a case against him without bodies.
(he didn't expect to be arrested in such a short time obviously thanks to CCTV, Patty and excellent work by the police).
b) perhaps he wanted Alvin to see his revenge and make him suffer much more instead of simply taking out his life
(it is unclear if Alvin and Kathy ever regained their consciousness following such severe blows to their heads.
Perhaps he didn't plan such hard blows, but he could not keep an eye on both victims in the first minute).
c) perhaps he feared leaving behind his DNA, for example under fingernails of the victims.

Any thoughts?

I think its B with a side of both A&C (maybe a little C than A)l! I think he thought he was committing the perfect crime. Some things he didn't concern himself with - thinking it didn't matter because LE would never find him.

 

[Slebby]

I agree, it doesn't strike me either as a brilliant murder plot. He could have parked a half of a mile away, walk to the residence and walk back unnoticed, but he was confident that he can pull this out. He not only risked a CCTV camera recording his truck, but he even parked his truck for several minutes right in front of the house/garage.

It baffles me why he decided to snatch the bodies of his victims in the first place.
a) if he ever gets caught it would be much harder to build a case against him without bodies.
(he didn't expect to be arrested in such a short time obviously thanks to CCTV, Patty and excellent work by the police).
b) perhaps he wanted Alvin to see his revenge and make him suffer much more instead of simply taking out his life
(it is unclear if Alvin and Kathy ever regained their consciousness following such severe blows to their heads.
Perhaps he didn't plan such hard blows, but he could not keep an eye on both victims in the first minute).
c) perhaps he feared leaving behind his DNA, for example under fingernails of the victims.

Any thoughts?

Maybe he originally planned to remove the bodies so that it would seem possible the Ls left town, and the trail would grow cold before foul play was suspected. It did work, for a while, in the early days. If you recall, police were sent to Mexico, presumably to rule out the possibility the Ls were there.

Alternatively - or perhaps a continuation of that same plan - he removed the bodies in a way they might suggest they merely left town SO THAT he may have time to do with them what he liked - sick fantasies, torture, dismemberment - as per his web searches.

I don't know if this was part of his plan, but the fact they had a 3 day estate sale certainly could have provided wonderful cover, if not for the CCTV and quick ID of the truck. How many of us jumped to the possibility that one of the strangers they had through their home was in fact casing the house and planning to return and kidnap them? If that was his plan, it was clever and might have worked. As it is, I suspect the defence may be able to cast doubt on some evidence from the home due to the number of people through it that weekend.
Imo


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[sublimemumma]

I can't see any other possible defence for him than insanity, tbh.

Do you think, with his sense of superiority he will lower himself to plead insanity?

 

[otto]

This is how I see the timeline of AL/DG business relationship (just my opinion):
- Alvin has an idea, need to develop a prototype that won't break the bank
- his son Allen is helping him
- they need a partner - someone to design controller board and they need a shop
- Alvin suggests DG, he is knowledgeable, has time, and is looking for job
- Alvin talks to DG, he presents his idea and a prospect of earning a lot of money in not too distant future
- DG is very interested and offers his shop at the farm
- they talk about money but Alvin explains that he cannot pay him right away but after he starts making money from the pump
- they don't have a contract
- everything goes well in the beginning
- DG is nervous about the pay and wants a guarantee that he will get paid
- DG would like to be listed as a co-owner of the patent, but Alvin does not act
- Alvin finds DG to be slow and difficult
- relationship is worsening
- Alvin thinks it was a mistake to hire DG in the first place
- Alvin decides to pay off DG and fires him
- Alvin takes the part of the pump system from DG's shop
- DG feels that Alvin used him
- Alvin does not make money (or does not make much money) off the pump

That makes sense. Thing is, the patent application had to come after the design, schematics, and product were figured out and built. Garland did the work, was not compensated per Garland's expectations, Liknes took the work and filed a patent in his name.

I don't think that Liknes could have filed the patent without Garland's help. Liknes might have been panicking about filing the patent, especially if he heard about the idea from someone else and didn't want anyone to file before him. There shouldn't have been an urgent rush to file the patent. It's also possible that Garland stalled after the work was done because he hadn't been properly compensated.

 

[otto]

I looked at all the tweets of Allen's testimony and I couldn't see anywhere where he was saying that DG held a grudge about the patent or was upset about not being named on the patent. I also didn't hear anyone else later go on to say that DG had ever complained about that (although Allen and others did report that DG had expressed being upset about other things such as not being paid for work done, Alv and All stealing from the farm, and Alvin letting him go).

The prosecution and the defence questioned Allen all about the pump, but I can only seem to find the Crown stating that DG had held a grudge about not being included on the patent. I think the only reason we know he wasn't included, is because the Crown has said so, and that he was upset about it. The Crown's remarks are not evidence.

I didn't mean at the beginning of the trial, I meant at the time of the kidnappings and murders - in 2014.

 

[otto]

Now we see where the term "petty" came from. The prosecutor is imitating the son of one of the victims.

"The grudge that may, according to family members, link Douglas Garland to the alleged murders of a Calgary couple and their grandson was over nothing more tangible than recognition.

Murder victim Alvin Liknes was a businessman and inventor who had filed several patents since the mid-‘70s. His most recent inventions focused on ways to prolong the life of natural gas and oil wells by removing water.

According to a relative of Mr. Liknes, Mr. Garland altered one of the patents and believed he should have been included as one of the inventors. Mr. Liknes paid for the work, but would not give Mr. Garland credit for the invention, said the [family member, who described the dispute as “petty/U].”

Calgary Police Service
http://www.bullfax.com/?q=node-nath...father-had-‘petty’-dispute-dougla

NATHAN O’BRIEN’S GRANDFATHER HAD ‘PETTY’ DISPUTE WITH DOUGLAS GARLAND OVER PATENT, CALGARY FAMILY SAYS
Fri, 07/18/2014 - 15:26 EDT - National Post

 

[otto]

I am not familiar with the cabin of this old model of Ford truck, but it does not seem large enough to fit 3 persons. Does it have a bucket seat that can be taken out or not?

I have always assumed that he put their bodies in the back of the truck - which adds to the point that it's unlikely that they were killed on the Airdrie property.

I think the prosecutor wants to suggest that because Garland searched methods of torture on the computer, that the victims suffered the torture - making the case more gruesome than it has to be. For that reason, she wants to argue that the victims were alive an well until they reached the Airdrie property, and they were then murdered. I don't believe that.

I think three mortally wounded people were loaded into the back of the truck, covered with sheets, and driven to where they were dismembered and burned.

 

[otto]

I agree, it doesn't strike me either as a brilliant murder plot. He could have parked a half of a mile away, walk to the residence and walk back unnoticed, but he was confident that he can pull this out. He not only risked a CCTV camera recording his truck, but he even parked his truck for several minutes right in front of the house/garage.

It baffles me why he decided to snatch the bodies of his victims in the first place.
a) if he ever gets caught it would be much harder to build a case against him without bodies.
(he didn't expect to be arrested in such a short time obviously thanks to CCTV, Patty and excellent work by the police).
b) perhaps he wanted Alvin to see his revenge and make him suffer much more instead of simply taking out his life
(it is unclear if Alvin and Kathy ever regained their consciousness following such severe blows to their heads.
Perhaps he didn't plan such hard blows, but he could not keep an eye on both victims in the first minute).
c) perhaps he feared leaving behind his DNA, for example under fingernails of the victims.

Any thoughts?

He had a kidnapping kit, including handcuffs. I don't think there was supposed to be blood at the abduction, but things went wrong from the beginning and he used a weapon from the house.

 

[Cherchri]

This is how I see the timeline of AL/DG business relationship (just my opinion):
- Alvin has an idea, need to develop a prototype that won't break the bank
- his son Allen is helping him
- they need a partner - someone to design controller board and they need a shop
- Alvin suggests DG, he is knowledgeable, has time, and is looking for job
- Alvin talks to DG, he presents his idea and a prospect of earning a lot of money in not too distant future
- DG is very interested and offers his shop at the farm
- they talk about money but Alvin explains that he cannot pay him right away but after he starts making money from the pump
- they don't have a contract
- everything goes well in the beginning
- DG is nervous about the pay and wants a guarantee that he will get paid
- DG would like to be listed as a co-owner of the patent, but Alvin does not act
- Alvin finds DG to be slow and difficult
- relationship is worsening
- Alvin thinks it was a mistake to hire DG in the first place
- Alvin decides to pay off DG and fires him
- Alvin takes the part of the pump system from DG's shop
- DG feels that Alvin used him
- Alvin does not make money (or does not make much money) off the pump

We learned from Allen's testimony that it was DG's sister who fired him.
We also learned that DG assisted with some wiring.
I think the application for the patent was filed before DG began to assist - can anyone confirm when DG started?
The patent application was in 2001.
Just a few things to add to your considerations. It would be nice to know exactly when DG started work and if it was only on an enhancement or modification of the original design.

 

[otto]

We learned from Allen's testimony that it was DG's sister who fired him.
We also learned that DG assisted with some wiring.
I think the application for the patent was filed before DG began to assist - can anyone confirm when DG started?
The patent application was in 2001.
Just a few things to add to your considerations. It would be nice to know exactly when DG started work and if it was only on an enhancement or modification of the original design.

Liknes had a couple of patents.

"According to a relative of Mr. Liknes [Allen], Mr. Garland altered one of the patents and believed he should have been included as one of the inventors. Mr. Liknes paid for the work, but would not give Mr. Garland credit for the invention, said the family member, who described the dispute as “petty.”

It doesn't really matter if Garland re-routed one wire, designed a new layout or new part. If he contributed to the design and his work was included on the patent application, then he should have been named on the patent application.

Strange that Alvin Liknes asked his son's wife to fire his employee. That's not normal.

 

[Tealgrove]

do you think, with his sense of superiority he will lower himself to plead insanity?

never