Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #25

[ABro]

I want to see them as well...but agree they shouldn't be posted directly here. Only a link for those who do want to see them.

Those who want to see the photos need to realize that once something is posted on the internet, there is no controlling where it goes and ends up.

People need to weigh their desires to see these photos against the family's need not to have them posted on the internet.

As others have pointed out, this discussion is likely irrelevant because it is highly unlikely the judge will release the photos to the media. They will either be sealed or covered by a publication ban.

The media has never published this type of photos for very good reason.

 

[olivebpa1]

Or he grabbed him by the hair when he was running away.

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Oh jeez. Any scenarios involving Nathan are extra hard to think about. For how long and what type of nightmare did that sweet boy have to endure?

 

[CentralAlberta]

I feel like NO was in the cab to keep the grandparents in the back. It sure would be likely to keep his grandparents compliant if DG told them to behave or he'd harm NO.



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I am thinking along these lines as well. I know if I were in a similar situation I would do ANYTHING to keep my grandchild save. And I mean ANYTHING.

 

[garbagetweet]

Good eye, Otto! Watching the raw video that LoriMcA linked, indeed it shows the middle little shed is stuffed with something that looks exactly like a white tarp.

Odd though, I can't think of ever seeing a white tarp around here at all. Green, blue, brown, beige colours are sold at hardware stores but I'm sure not white. Perhaps white tarps are used for some type of specialized industrial purpose and it was bought at an auction sale?

White tarps, anybody know what they're commonly used for?

I'm just trying to get caught up on the discussions from last night.

Regarding the tarp in the shed, it is highly unlikely that it was in the back of the green truck because I would assume that Garland would know that blood/DNA would be all over it and it would be something that he would destroy right away. That being said Garland has slipped up quite a bit and made some serious mistakes while trying to cover up his crime.

I'm not sure what sort of common uses there are for white tarps but I've purchased a large white tarp before. I used it underneath sheets of clear poly when making an outdoor hockey rink in my backyard. The process was that the white tarp went on the grass, clear poly on top of that and then water. White tarp is ideal in this application because it doesn't absorb the sun like darker tarps and as such it doesn't soften the ice as much.

 

[dogmatica]

Just wanted to chime in re: Defence lawyers. I have seen a lot of negative comments online about criminal defence lawyers and wanted to try and make their role in society a little more acceptable to the masses. Disclaimer - I am related to a former criminal defence lawyer so have had long conversations as I didn't understand how he could do it either. The first thing he said is that criminal defence lawyers all share a passion for the legal process and the idea of a fair trial. They believe this is an entitlement for everyone. Second - they do feel bad when they know their client is guilty so the next part of a fair trial is to ensure that there are no grounds for appeal should the client be found guilty. Finally, he believed that good defence lawyers ensure that our law enforcement does everything by the book and doesn't compromise the trial by doing something incorrectly or missing anything that could convict a person. I truly believe these people have an extremely difficult profession and they are doing what they do because it is a job that needs to be done and they have passion for fairness.

I know it's true they're necessary. But I still can't reconcile the fact that if they have the opportunity - whether it's a technical error, or using manipulation to sway a juror(s) or whatever, they will use it without hesitation to get an acquittal for their client - whether they know he committed the crime or not. They will do whatever they can within their power to see to it that someone like Garland walks free. So while I understand they're part of due process, I still detest them and what they do.

 

[MistyWaters]

Drop cloths, hadn't thought of that, yes that makes sense. Of any colour, white surely stands out best in the night and predawn. So either -
Garland was obvious to how common CCTV has become, both in homes and businesses, and just never expected to get caught...
Or
Once again, he was taking an intentional risk, sort of a cat and mouse game. Catch me if you can.

If the later, it appears he was literally daring his own family to report the green truck to police. That supports my theory that his actions were a lot about causing unimaginable mental anguish and humiliation to his own family for any and all perceived wrongs against him throughout his entire lifetime. That's why he involved the "home" as a crime scene when he had the entire West Country as an option. It was his way of permanently destroying any happy memories for other family members of "home".

The sort of person that would murder three people over patent work from 7 years previous, that never made any money, most certainly holds grudges against everybody who crosses their path. Always a victim.

At his age still replying on his senior parents to support him, I can also imagine someone at some point in time saying to him "Get a Life!" And in his demented, spiteful mind, this trial serves as entertainment and it serves them right. He'll get Life.

My thoughts, my opinion.

 

[snappybits]

Why he returned to house - while I doubt we'll ever know my suspicion is he forgot (or thought he forgot) something that could tie him to the crime. The reason being he took huge risks going back so the reason had to justify that.
- The risk of being seen at the house that time was very high because it was commuting time on a weekday.

While it was a weekday and always risky to go back to the scene of the crime in broad daylight - it was actually a holiday for many people because Canada Day was the next day. So many people had an extra long weekend and wouldn't have been going to work that day. Also prime summer vacation time for many Calgarians.

 

[olivebpa1]

Those who want to see the photos need to realize that once something is posted on the internet, there is no controlling where it goes and ends up.

People need to weigh their desires to see these photos against the family's need not to have them posted on the internet.

As others have pointed out, this discussion is likely irrelevant because it is highly unlikely the judge will release the photos to the media. They will either be sealed or covered by a publication ban.

The media has never published this type of photos for very good reason.

I don't want to live in a country where the media publishes pictures of three murdered human beings. One of them being a child and two of them being naked except for diapers. We are better than that.

I admit that I am curious but that is a small part of me and a part that I don't necessarily like. even though I am curious I would never look at the pictures if they were published. that is a line I do not want to cross.

 

[CentralAlberta]

Just wanted to chime in re: Defence lawyers. I have seen a lot of negative comments online about criminal defence lawyers and wanted to try and make their role in society a little more acceptable to the masses. Disclaimer - I am related to a former criminal defence lawyer so have had long conversations as I didn't understand how he could do it either. The first thing he said is that criminal defence lawyers all share a passion for the legal process and the idea of a fair trial. They believe this is an entitlement for everyone. Second - they do feel bad when they know their client is guilty so the next part of a fair trial is to ensure that there are no grounds for appeal should the client be found guilty. Finally, he believed that good defence lawyers ensure that our law enforcement does everything by the book and doesn't compromise the trial by doing something incorrectly or missing anything that could convict a person. I truly believe these people have an extremely difficult profession and they are doing what they do because it is a job that needs to be done and they have passion for fairness.

THank you - I was one who could never understand how anyone could defend scum such as what we have in this trial. I never thought about the fair trial angle and making sure mistakes aren't made to create a mistrial. My mind is changed about these lawyers!

 

[ABro]

I don't want to live in a country where the media publishes pictures of three murdered human beings. One of them being a child and two of them being naked except for diapers. We are better than that.

I admit that I am curious but that is a small part of me and a part that I don't necessarily like. even though I am curious I would never look at the pictures if they were published. that is a line I do not want to cross.

The media is not going to publish these pictures.

It's anonymous people on this board who are discussing how it could be done, what kind of link to use, etc.

 

[garbagetweet]

Part of me wants to see it with my own eyes to believe it. I'm wondering whether there are blurred shapes with some white, or whether there are distinct bodies.

I'll give my, pseudo-expert, opinion on what the July 1 image would have looked like with three bodies laying on the matted grass. I say pseudo-expert because I work in the oil and gas industry and commonly use aerial photos for identifying potential well pad locations, assessing locations of old wells, qa/qc of seismic line locations and surface pipelines and such (I've seen my share of aerial photos.)

10cm resolution, as was acquired, is pretty good and quite detailed but it doesn't provide a lot of detail for smaller objects. Consider a body like Alvin's laying down. His body would probably have a midsection width of about 20 to 22 inches (50 to 55cm.) Basically, if the body was imaged perfectly perfectly you would have a greenish pixel for the grass and 5 peach/tan pixels of the body followed by another greenish pixel. In reality though, you'd likely see 3 or 4 tan pixels and a halo of 2 or 3 mixed tan-green pixels (whatever colour that makes when the two are mixed.) Now consider the size of a diaper/underwear (15 to 20cm) and you'd likely see a very blurry, subtle change in pixel colour constrast from tan to white.

Kathy, as a smaller and more slender woman will be imaged much more poorly and Nathan, as a small child, would essentially only be imaged by 2 or maybe 3 pixels. It would be quite difficult to see distinct bodies with definition between the ground/grass and the bodies themselves.

 

[MistyWaters]

I know it's true they're necessary. But I still can't reconcile the fact that if they have the opportunity - whether it's a technical error, or using manipulation to sway a juror(s) or whatever, they will use it without hesitation to get an acquittal for their client - whether they know he committed the crime or not. They will do whatever they can within their power to see to it that someone like Garland walks free. So while I understand they're part of due process, I still detest them and what they do.

Sure, sometimes the general public does not agree with the verdict. It's only recently that we on the outside have been allowed partway into the courtroom. However I don't think we have the right to criticize a jury verdict or assume they were swayed or manipulated by anyone.

The criminal defence attorney keeps our system honest by protecting the rights of the accused, and in a democracy so it should be.

 

[olivebpa1]

The media is not going to publish these pictures.

It's anonymous people on this board who are discussing how it could be done, what kind of link to use, etc.

Do you have any insight as to why the judge would say he hadn't decided yet? Seems like an easy decision.

Also in the Bosma case do you know if the pictures of the bones were released by the judge? I know media didn't publish them but curious if the pictures were sealed by the court.

 

[PrincessButtercup]

THank you - I was one who could never understand how anyone could defend scum such as what we have in this trial. I never thought about the fair trial angle and making sure mistakes aren't made to create a mistrial. My mind is changed about these lawyers!

I am personal friends with a defense lawyer in Calgary who is involved in several high profile cases right now. He's a very good man who really believes in the justice system and his part in it. It's really in everyone's best interest for the accused to have a good lawyer to ensure the the police and Crown do their jobs. That keeps people in jail 😊.

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[Bravo]

Going to be a long day for the DNA Expert.

 

[Cherchri]

I am personal friends with a defense lawyer in Calgary who is involved in several high profile cases right now. He's a very good man who really believes in the justice system and his part in it. It's really in everyone's best interest for the accused to have a good lawyer to ensure the the police and Crown do their jobs. That keeps people in jail ��.

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I agree - 100%. In this trial I think DG's defence attorneys have been very even handed. No heavy-hitting cross examination for obviously irrefutable evidence. They have only taken a shot at the little gaps here and there.

 

[PrincessButtercup]

Do you have any insight as to why the judge would say he hadn't decided yet? Seems like an easy decision.

Also in the Bosma case do you know if the pictures of the bones were released by the judge? I know media didn't publish them but curious if the pictures were sealed by the court.

Maybe he will allow the photo of the burn barrel and the ones from July 2? That might be what he's deciding on. Maybe he'll allow one with the bodies that isn't close up?

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[Bravo]

I agree that Defense Lawyers play an important part in our Legal System. It's the sleazy tactics "some" use that gives the good ones a bad name. IMO

 

[JadeSLeuth]

Im unexpectedly away from computer for an hour or so. Had to take a JadeJunior to the Dr. I can't do the tweets from my phone but I'll be keeping an eye on them! Back soon.

 

[ABro]

Do you have any insight as to why the judge would say he hadn't decided yet? Seems like an easy decision.

Also in the Bosma case do you know if the pictures of the bones were released by the judge? I know media didn't publish them but curious if the pictures were sealed by the court.

I was surprised the judge said that too. But sometimes the media will argue that something should not be sealed/ pub banned based on the principle and precedent not because they have any intention of publishing it. That could be the case here. Or the judge might just be being hyper-cautious. Or his comment could have been misinterpreted/misreported.

In the Bosma case, the bone pictures were not sealed but subject to a publication ban. There was other material, not pub-banned but sensitive, that was not published.