Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #25

[PrincessButtercup]

I was surprised the judge said that too. But sometimes the media will argue that something should not be sealed/ pub banned based on the principle and precedent not because they have any intention of publishing it. That could be the case here. Or the judge might just be being hyper-cautious. Or his comment could have been misinterpreted/misreported.

In the Bosma case, the bone pictures were not sealed but subject to a publication ban. There was other material, not pub-banned but sensitive, that was not published.

I wonder if this was what was happening with the media lawyer last Tuesday afternoon?

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[Kamille]

[video=twitter;829012118271836161]https://twitter.com/CBCMeg/status/829012118271836161[/video]

 

[JadeSLeuth]

MG, I believe you are reading here. Thank you for what you are doing with your coverage. It is greatly appreciated. I hope one day you will join us.

 

[Hatfield]

Re: the diapers...some are speculating they were to contain bodily fluids. I might buy that, except for the fact that they found diaper fetish searches on the hard drive. It seems very unlikely to me that he put them on at the house. That would take a lot of time and he wasn't there that long. It's possible, but not likely. It seems more likely to me this was part of the whole twisted fantasy/humiliation/psycho thing. Thoughts? Or was it for a "practical" (for lack of a better word) reason?

Thanks for asking for everyones thoughts. Because this is really turning out to be one of the most perplexing debates in this trial.

It is one piece of evidence that speaks to whether they survived the initial beatings or were they still alive when they got to the farm.

IMO I dont think it is conclusive one way or the other yet and I am hoping even more evidence will come in this trial to help us know one way or the other.

Here are some of my reasoning about it so far.

First from the evidence from yesterday I dont think the witnesses actually said diapers were on. They did say something about white covering that would be where underwear would be but it is not proven yet IMO they were even diapers they had on. I think they probably were diapers but they could have been white underwear too as that is common to have on underneath ones clothes. Wish the witness testimony would have cleared it up one way or the other. Maybe that will still come in the trial somehow.

Assuming they were diapers they had on then I am thinking he used them just to keep bodily fluids as he was trying to dispose of the bodies.

It may just be wishful thinking on my part as I really hope they did not survive past leaving their house because I do not want to think of what that monster could have done to them at the farm.

The other reasons I am leaning that way is because of this.

I suspect he wanted to make sure they were not screaming out or making noise during his initial beatings and I think he had to have hit everyone very hard so I think they may have not survived. I think he used a barbell even which is more powerful than the billy club type thing he brought. I am still thinking he beat everyone to death at that time. I think once he started beating everyone then the monster in him took over during the beatings.

This last thing I cannot find anymore but maybe someone who has read the books he downloaded may be able to confirm or not. I had thought I ran into a review comment on one of the book reviews that said the book itself contained a reference to using diapers to keep bodily fluids from creating more evidence. So if someone who had read the books saw that or not please let us know.

The thinking is that he was very close to burning the bodies at the time and so was thinking he wanted the evidence contained and not spread around as he had to have dragged the bodies around.

Anyway this particular topic is important for many reasons and we have had a respectable and good debate about it.

I hope some other evidence yet to come can help us know one way or the other whether they survived leaving the initial house.

All JMO

 

[Kamille]

Michael PlattVerified account ‏@SUNMichaelPlatt 5m5 minutes ago
DNA day at the #Garland trial - RCMP expert Vivian Mohrbutter to take stand

Kevin MartinVerified account ‏@KMartinCourts 7m7 minutes ago
Day 15 of the Douglas #Garland triple-murder trial about to get underway with evidence from DNA expert Vivian Mohrbutter.

 

[MistyWaters]

I wonder if this was what was happening with the media lawyer last Tuesday afternoon?

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Perhaps the family hadn't yet filed a request to seal, so the judge hadn't yet made the formal ruling?

I also think a hearing would be involved.

 

[Bravo]

Glad your here Kamille to do tweets. I have been nursing a hunting lab who has an ACL tear. Between icing her and keeping her quiet I am multi tasking. No surgery per Vet warranted at this point. Sorry for the O/T but wanted to say thank you to our terrific posters here. Sorry I cant help out.

 

[Kamille]

Kevin MartinVerified account ‏@KMartinCourts 13s14 seconds ago
Court technical staff working on something in the #Garland courtroom, delaying the start of today's proceedings.

 

[Kamille]

Glad your here Kamille to do tweets. I have been nursing a hunting lab who has an ACL tear. Between icing her and keeping her quiet I am multi tasking. No surgery per Vet warranted at this point. Sorry for the O/T but wanted to say thank you to our terrific posters here. Sorry I cant help out.

Aww..I hope your puppy feels better. And no problem. If I'm here I don't have a problem posting the tweets. Looks like it's going to be an easy morning anyway since they're starting out with tech issues. LOL

 

[puppyraiser]

The photos are from July 1st. He took three people in the wee hours of June 30th. That gave him a full 24+ hrs to dispose of the bodies if they were dead upon arrival at the farm. The fact that an aerial photographer managed to snap two pictures in the span of 6 seconds with bodies in the frames on July 1st, indicates to me that DG spent time doing something with AL, KL and NO during those 24+ hours.

And Bravo, good luck with your pup. I had a foster that required surgery for that injury and it's a LOT of work. Plus within a year or two you can bet the other knee with go. Not fun.

 

[Kamille]

Kevin MartinVerified account ‏@KMartinCourts 11s12 seconds ago
Technical issue resolved. Court now underway. #Garland

Ha...spoke too soon.

 

[olivebpa1]

Aww..I hope your puppy feels better. And no problem. If I'm here I don't have a problem posting the tweets. Looks like it's going to be an easy morning anyway since they're starting out with tech issues. LOL

Tech issue??? Those never happen! Lol

 

[Kamille]

Bryan LabbyVerified account ‏@CBCBryan now38 seconds ago
Day 15 of the #Garland trial is now underway. Only witness expected today is Vivian Mohrbutter, RCMP DNA expert.

Meghan GrantVerified account ‏@CBCMeg now29 seconds ago
Vivian Mohrbutter called Tuesday's only witness in #Garland trial. Crown seeking to have her qualified as forensic specialist

 

[dogmatica]

Sure, sometimes the general public does not agree with the verdict. It's only recently that we on the outside have been allowed partway into the courtroom. However I don't think we have the right to criticize a jury verdict or assume they were swayed or manipulated by anyone.

The criminal defence attorney keeps our system honest by protecting the rights of the accused, and in a democracy so it should be.

We have a right to criticize anything we want - that's the beauty of living in a free country. But that's not the point I was making.

 

[Kamille]

Kevin MartinVerified account ‏@KMartinCourts now27 seconds ago
Defence doesn't take issue with Mohrbutter's qualifications as a DNA expert. #Garland

 

[Kamille]

Valerie Fortney ‏@ValFortney now26 seconds ago
Court is now going over Mohrbutter's c.v./qualifications as an expert witness for #Garland trial.

Meghan GrantVerified account ‏@CBCMeg now26 seconds ago
To have Mohrbutter qualified to give opinion evidence, the Crown has to go through her CV (experience/education/training) #Garland

Meghan GrantVerified account ‏@CBCMeg now47 seconds ago
Mohrbutter is with the RCMP's national forensic lab #Garland

 

[JadeSLeuth]

Wonder how full the courtroom is today with the roads and weather conditions in Calgary

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[Bravo]

The photos are from July 1st. He took three people in the wee hours of June 30th. That gave him a full 24+ hrs to dispose of the bodies if they were dead upon arrival at the farm. The fact that an aerial photographer managed to snap two pictures in the span of 6 seconds with bodies in the frames on July 1st, indicates to me that DG spent time doing something with AL, KL and NO during those 24+ hours.

And Bravo, good luck with your pup. I had a foster that required surgery for that injury and it's a LOT of work. Plus within a year or two you can bet the other knee with go. Not fun.

I know. She is only 4, brought up from the South and we call her the Secretariat (sp?)of hunting labs. Sorry for the O/T folks. I promise no more doggy posts lol.

 

[Kamille]

Nancy HixtVerified account ‏@NancyHixt now21 seconds ago
Mohrbutter works at the National Forensic Lab in Edmonton-as a forensic lab specialist #Garland

Well I guess that's all we're going to get to know about this expert.

:waiting:

 

[Kamille]

Bill GravelandVerified account ‏@BillGraveland 8s9 seconds ago
Mohrbutter says new software used to test for DNA was brought in recently and used in the #Garland case.