Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #2

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When I listen to the police reports about this disappearance, I think about cases in places like North Carolina where police mke up their mind before they have understood evidence. Different angles are examined. Police in NC need to say that if they expect to convince anyone that they didn't have tunnel vision. ... oops ... tangent ... will follow up on the NC thread.
 
This strikes me as the wrong place at the wrong time for the child. It looks like the parents were targetted at their home on the weekend that they were liquidating and leaving the city/country. Some family members were aware of the plan to leave the country (Mexico) and others were aware of a plan to move to Northern Albera (Edmonton). It still seems like the two grandparents were saying different things. Was the grandmother expecting to winter in Mazatlan, but thet twins were still sorting out the arrangements.
 
Did this couple have insurance policies? If so, who is/are the beneficiary(ies)?

Was any furniture in the home sold that belonged to someone else?
Was any furniture going to be picked up later that night?
Was the garage open at 10PM when the daughter left?
Was her dad hosing down the parking pad when she left at 10PM?
 
How difficult would it be to get across the border with a child? "They" (either grandparents or abductors) wouldn't have any papers for Nathan I would presume.
 
When I listen to the police reports about this disappearance, I think about cases in places like North Carolina where police mke up their mind before they have understood evidence. Different angles are examined. Police in NC need to say that if they expect to convince anyone that they didn't have tunnel vision. ... oops ... tangent ... will follow up on the NC thread.

Hey, hey there! I fall asleep and you start dissing the Carolinas?! Well bless your heart. ;) :seeya:



Edit:
aaand then I see this this morning. :sigh:
article-2678213-1F56CCCD00000578-702_634x350_popup.jpg
 
How difficult would it be to get across the border with a child? "They" (either grandparents or abductors) wouldn't have any papers for Nathan I would presume.

Depends hugely on the crossing and employees. You technically need a passport for every individual crossing, and can be denied the ability to transport a child without express parental permission (we bring a notarized letter when travelling with my much younger sister). However, the enforcement of these guidelines is very spotty in my experience. It has ranged from very rigid to knowing individuals who cross regularly without a passport. Smaller more rural crossings often seen more laid back. I think this is partially due to the fact that passport requirements for US/Canada land crossings is a relatively new phenomenon, and citizens and workers alike are not all thrilled about the change. I can't speculate about this particular crossing, as my times travelling to the states have been via Ontario and New Brunswick, but wanted to share based on my experience.

Perhaps someone has crossed there specifically :)

Edited to add: I have also never had my vehicle peeked into/searched. An elderly couple may be less likely to raise suspicions and could plausibly hide a child for the duration of a crossing. I am not up to date on this case or thread, despite tons of local media attention, so I am not sure of the specs of their vehicle or wheher we know if the grandparents had access to their own passports.
 
This kept me awake last night.

When JO arrived at her parent's home, were the doors unlocked?

If the doors were locked, did JO have a key to their home?

Did JO enter the home and see the (paraphrasing) upheaval and everyone gone and then call 911?

Did JO check with neighbours first to see if they had seen her parents and N out walking that morning before making the call to 911?

Here's what nags at me ... if the doors were closed or locked and there was (paraphrasing) an apparent struggle to remove people against their will, why would the perp(s) care about closing doors??

Also wondering about passports, wallets, purse, cell phones, medications (if any), laptops, etc., and if JO was allowed to check for these items to see if anything of this nature was missing in the home.
 
Depends hugely on the crossing and employees. You technically need a passport for every individual crossing, and can be denied the ability to transport a child without express parental permission (we bring a notarized letter when travelling with my much younger sister). However, the enforcement of these guidelines is very spotty in my experience. It has ranged from very rigid to knowing individuals who cross regularly without a passport. Smaller more rural crossings often seen more laid back. I think this is partially due to the fact that passport requirements for US/Canada land crossings is a relatively new phenomenon, and citizens and workers alike are not all thrilled about the change. I can't speculate about this particular crossing, as my times travelling to the states have been via Ontario and New Brunswick, but wanted to share based on my experience.

Perhaps someone has crossed there specifically :)

Edited to add: I have also never had my vehicle peeked into/searched. An elderly couple may be less likely to raise suspicions and could plausibly hide a child for the duration of a crossing. I am not up to date on this case or thread, despite tons of local media attention, so I am not sure of the specs of their vehicle or wheher we know if the grandparents had access to their own passports.

Children under 16 only need a birth cert nit a passport for a land crossing into Canada.
 
was so hoping to come on this morning and see that they had been found and were doing wonderfully. Please let today be the day!
 
When I see it as a robbery gone wrong....I can't get past why the people are missing then. If it was a robbery, and the people were murdered, no need to remove their bodies. If an abduction of all 3 family members, then for what? Ransom? From a couple that filed bankruptsy a few years ago? Doesn't add up.

Only thing I can figure, for whatever reason, the adults were the ones a perp was after, and didn't know a child would be there. BUT, still...if that's the case, why abduction? Sexually motivated crimes typically don't include both sexes, and adults and a child. Financial motivated crimes could include all sexes, and all ages. BUT, who would benefit? And unless the child knew the perp, then why not leave them asleep wherever they were? If the child was awake, saw something, etc., unless he knew them, doubtful he could identify someone in a line up, or give an accurate description for a drawing. So would serve no purpose to take the child, nor kill the child.

UNLESS the grandparents had a fight or something, and one killed the other, and then fled with the child...taking the spouse with them to dump somewhere or to figure out what to do with the body?? I don't know.

Bizarre! This one and the case in Alaska with 4 people missing!!!
 
Did they sell everything at the sale? Where did they sleep? I would imagine the place would have looked much different than normal days considering they had the sale, and most likely had gone through stuff and determined what was clutter/trash and what could be sold, and anything they were keeping. IMO, it would be difficult for anyone to say what could be missing...unless it was known they were keeping certain items, and those were missing. I don't know.
 
Children under 16 only need a birth cert nit a passport for a land crossing into Canada.

Not true.
They need passports. My boss and his kids are traveling to the States this summer, and they need passports. Both kids are under 16.

If the L's and N are not intending to leave Canada, then none of them will need passports. They'll just need birth certificates. I also find it difficult for them to leave the country with N. He is not a biological child. He's a grandchild and he doesn't share the same last name as the L's. In order for the L's (or anyone) to take N across the border, they would need a notarized letter and permission from N's parents.

But this is all assuming N was taken by his grandparents with the intent of crossing the border.
 
How difficult would it be to get across the border with a child? "They" (either grandparents or abductors) wouldn't have any papers for Nathan I would presume.

Without proper documents, it would be difficult to cross the border.
I would guess that border patrol would be pretty tight over the long weekend. Even if N was hidden in a vehicle, a vehicle search would have yielded the child.

IMO, N and the L's are still in Canada.
 
From Google maps and routes with photoshop ... it looks like a straight shot from the house to the border.


Pretty much. After leaving Calgary, all one has to do is drive in a straight line (so to speak) to reach the US border. I've never driven into the States, but I know those who have, and they said it's a pretty straight drive.
 
Without proper documents, it would be difficult to cross the border.
I would guess that border patrol would be pretty tight over the long weekend. Even if N was hidden in a vehicle, a vehicle search would have yielded the child.

IMO, N and the L's are still in Canada.

I believe one of the first articles written stated that Canada Border Services had been in contact with their US counterparts and there was no record of them crossing into the US. If they crossed by car or plane, then the US will have it on record as to date and time they entered... unless they used fake credentials. That's a whole other scenario though.
 
Is the Elbow River Pathway connected to any other river branches?

Since all the pathways are essentially connected to each other, the Elbow River Pathway (which runs along the Elbow River) would eventually turn into the Bow River Pathway. Not sure if there are other river pathways or not...just going by my general knowledge.
 
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