Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #9

[otto]

Also trap doors under the greenhouse as well.

If there was any sort of bunker on the Airdrie acreage, I'm pretty that sure the landowner would be aware of it. The suspect has been a tenant on his parent's property since the year 2000. I doubt that they would allow him to build a bunker under the crop fields and then withhold that information from investigators. I'm pretty sure that "bunker" can be ruled out.

 

[Blue Amethyst]

For those that believe three bodies were burned to ashes, how could this have been achieved?

It is not possible to have an open fire on the prairies at the temperature required to turn bodies to ashes ... so how would this have been done?

On our farm we do not use open burning barrels. We have an incinerator that is made from half of a propane tank and it is closed. I don't know what Garlands had.

Also awhile ago someone mentioned gravel pits. There is one north of Airdrie on the 2A where you go west on the 280 to Cremona.
I don't know how to like a post so I will say thank you for all the information.

 

[otto]

Awful to contemplate but: [PDF]Resomation—more than you wanted to know
www.fcapeninsula.org/Resomation.for.newsletter.pdf
Resomation—more than you wanted to know. “Resomation” is a coined word that refers to the alkaline hydrolysis method of corpse/carcass disposal. Touted as ...

I just don't see how the suspect could achieve this on his parent's farm.

"The process is called alkaline hydrolysis and was developed in this country 16 years ago to get rid of animal carcasses. It uses lye, 300-degree heat and 60 pounds of pressure per square inch to destroy bodies in big stainless-steel cylinders that are similar to pressure cookers."

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=4828249

 

[Deleted member 117120]

The logo on the tshirt "Beat the Heat" please let that not be a subliminal reference from DG although he had no idea he was going to get picked up by LE that early morning however maybe the tshirt phrase gave DG some perverse satisfaction. Oh dear, hate to even think that.

Leeby, great find. Does this mean PG was sending images of this on her phone.

My original quote about DG tshirt logo "Beat the Heat" I did not say it but what I was trying to query is whether the phrase itself meant something to DG as in how he disposed of the bodies. I didn't want to out right say that.

 

[Cherchri]

I just don't see how the suspect could achieve this on his parent's farm.

"The process is called alkaline hydrolysis and was developed in this country 16 years ago to get rid of animal carcasses. It uses lye, 300-degree heat and 60 pounds of pressure per square inch to destroy bodies in big stainless-steel cylinders that are similar to pressure cookers."

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=4828249

SillyBilly pointed out that lye is used in the making of methamphetamines. The use of lye and an incinerator would achieve much the same thing as resomation. It's just awful to contemplate so I don't want to get into too much graphic detail but is very doable.

 

[LoriMcA]

....I have noticed a lot of info/images/birds eye video ect appear to scrubber from the internet as the investigation proceeded. For example, the first day police entered the Garland property Global news posted a 5.5minute long video and then the following day the exact same link was only 2.5mins ... I've been saving some of the links I find...

RSBM^^
Back in the beginning threads here we had linked & viewed that raw aerial footage ...then it was cut down to 2 minutes for the news ....but the original raw video was in their archives....the references are wayyyyyy back in these threads but here is the original 5:53 from Global:
http://globalnews.ca/video/1434629/raw-video-police-search-rural-property-north-of-calgary/

 

[Sillybilly]

If there was any sort of bunker on the Airdrie acreage, I'm pretty that sure the landowner would be aware of it. The suspect has been a tenant on his parent's property since the year 2000. I doubt that they would allow him to build a bunker under the crop fields and then withhold that information from investigators. I'm pretty sure that "bunker" can be ruled out.

While improbable, I don't think it's impossible otto. Perhaps his parents went on extended vacations and DG was left to his own devices on the farm .. they wouldn't even have to know such a thing existed on their property. Given his parents' ages and depending on their health, it's possible that DG was the only one who spent time on the acreage.

 

[otto]

SillyBilly pointed out that lye is used in the making of methamphetamines. The use of lye and an incinerator would achieve much the same thing as resomation. It's just awful to contemplate so I don't want to get into too much graphic detail but is very doable.

I would think that any thing related to a meth lab was dismantled in the early 1990s, at the time of his arrest, and that his parents would make very sure that nothing like a meth lab was ever again established on their property. His parents are perhaps in their late 70s or early 80s, and it looks like they are fit and healthy (active in the community, camping trips), so they are probably very aware of what is happening on the acreage.

 

[otto]

While improbable, I don't think it's impossible otto. Perhaps his parents went on extended vacations and DG was left to his own devices on the farm .. they wouldn't even have to know such a thing existed on their property. Given his parents' ages and depending on their health, it's possible that DG was the only one who spent time on the acreage.

To put a bunker under the crops, someone would need an excavator, and the work would have to be done between the end of May and early September. Someone would now about it.

 

[Cherchri]

RSBM^^
Back in the beginning threads here we had linked & viewed that raw aerial footage ...then it was cut down to 2 minutes for the news ....but the original raw video was in their archives....the references are wayyyyyy back in these threads but here is the original 5:53 from Global:
http://globalnews.ca/video/1434629/raw-video-police-search-rural-property-north-of-calgary/

Ok so did we all see the incinerator? I think everyone should take a few minutes to watch this footage. So many things to note that potentially open new avenues of thought!

 

[KMouse]

What if the bodies were burned in a barrel but then what was left was removed and then taken somewhere and buried?
Then the barrel was cleaned and then stuff like garbage and branches was burned to cover up any residue?

 

[Sillybilly]

I just don't see how the suspect could achieve this on his parent's farm.

"The process is called alkaline hydrolysis and was developed in this country 16 years ago to get rid of animal carcasses. It uses lye, 300-degree heat and 60 pounds of pressure per square inch to destroy bodies in big stainless-steel cylinders that are similar to pressure cookers."

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=4828249

GRAPHIC

I believe the above article refers to a commercial, mortuary-like setting. Basically lye can be made at home from wood ash (as in soapmaking) using plastic or wooden barrels. After hydrolysis, whatever indigestible materials remain can be burned.

from:
http://www.alnmag.com/articles/2004/08/alkaline-hydrolysis-process

After alkaline hydrolysis, the undigested residue of animal tissues, specifically the inorganic (calcium phosphate) component of bones and teeth, constitutes approximately 3% of the original weight of the tissue (less than 2% of the volume)

 

[otto]

Mark Twitchell Case (Edmonton)

"Twitchell cut up the remains then tried to burn them in a steel barrel, prosecutors allege. But the bones, like the blood, wouldn't go away. The fire raged but the remains remained. Police later found the charred arm of a pair of eyeglasses at the bottom."

http://www.ctvnews.ca/blood-everywhere-court-hears-as-twitchell-trial-begins-1.621221#ixzz382LJUGlp

"He told the jurors that, in a panic, he cut up the body, tried to burn it, cut it up some more then finally dumped it down a sewer."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ng-stranger-he-lured-to-garage/article575580/

 

[smoothcheetos]

I've been away for awhile and was so hoping there would be some sort of closer for this family. I'm so sad there is not.

 

[otto]

I've seen Breaking Bad references in this thread several time and have no idea what it means. While researching lye/bones, I came across this:

"In the TV show "Breaking Bad", Walter White frequently gets rid of people who get in his way by submerging them in a plastic container full of hydrofluoric acid. This, at least in the TV show, completely dissolves the body leaving nothing but a red sludge behind at the end."

http://chemistry.stackexchange.com/...e-to-dispose-of-a-body-with-hydrofluoric-acid

Is that where the idea comes from?

 

[bakerlady]

I've seen Breaking Bad references in this thread several time and have no idea what it means. While researching lye/bones, I came across this:

"In the TV show "Breaking Bad", Walter White frequently gets rid of people who get in his way by submerging them in a plastic container full of hydrofluoric acid. This, at least in the TV show, completely dissolves the body leaving nothing but a red sludge behind at the end."

http://chemistry.stackexchange.com/...e-to-dispose-of-a-body-with-hydrofluoric-acid

Is that where the idea comes from?

Yes, that was me. I added several posts about this and also discovered that hydrofluoric and hydrochloric acid are both used in oil fields.

 

[Sillybilly]

Ok so did we all see the incinerator?

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz15/sillybillyyyy/Garlandfarmpic.jpg

IMO, it appears to be 2 burning barrels. I would be interested to know what that very large diameter dug-out circle is and the yellow ring beside it that looks to be the same size as the the dug-out.

Can't figure out if it's the general blurriness in the picture or if there is smoke coming from the one smaller barrel to the left, and on the ground to the left of the barrel that is in the foreground.

 

[otto]

On our farm we do not use open burning barrels. We have an incinerator that is made from half of a propane tank and it is closed. I don't know what Garlands had.

Also awhile ago someone mentioned gravel pits. There is one north of Airdrie on the 2A where you go west on the 280 to Cremona.
I don't know how to like a post so I will say thank you for all the information.

Thanks! I found the gravel pit pretty much at the intersection of hwy 2A and hwy 580. It looks like a fairly small gravel pit in comparison to the ones in Springbank and Bearspaw, so I don't think that would be a good place to make bodies vanish.

 

[Cherchri]

I would think that any thing related to a meth lab was dismantled in the early 1990s, at the time of his arrest, and that his parents would make very sure that nothing like a meth lab was ever again established on their property. His parents are perhaps in their late 70s or early 80s, and it looks like they are fit and healthy (active in the community, camping trips), so they are probably very aware of what is happening on the acreage.

I didn't mean to suggest he continued making drugs. Sodium hydroxide has many uses and it's something that can easily be prepared at home. I meant to highlight the fact that DG was exceptionally proficient in the use of lye aka sodium hydroxide.

 

[Cherchri]

GRAPHIC

I believe the above article refers to a commercial, mortuary-like setting. Basically lye can be made at home from wood ash (as in soapmaking) using plastic or wooden barrels. After hydrolysis, whatever indigestible materials remain can be burned.

from:
http://www.alnmag.com/articles/2004/08/alkaline-hydrolysis-process

Precisely!