CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #3

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Would like to come to the defense of LV with information I received earlier today, which I find contravenes info posted previously by PK.

I obtained a copy of the Land Registry documents for the sale of AG's home - the sale of any home is and always has been in the public domain. It was purchased by a professional couple for $425,000.00 cash - a fair price imo. A clean, quick sale for cash is always a good thing - the owner or the agent of the owner does not have to deal with taxes, utilities and other necessary costs for the upkeep of the home that must be maintained as long as the house is not sold.

LV was recognized by the necessary court as trustee for the property on 22 February 2011 - almost 2 months after AG was found deceased. This enabled LV to finalize a sale of the home and other requirements of an executor - tax return and household bills etc. In the meantime someone had to dispose of the food in the home, clothing that would no longer be used and someone had to decide what furniture and other decor could be sold or should be disposed of.

The sale of AG's home closed on 25 March 2011 and I personally applaud LV's efforts during this time as it was not the 1 or 2 weeks as PK previously told us on this forum. It takes much effort as many readers will know - I have been there, done that and have 2 elderly relatives where I will have to do it again soon.

So why would PK state that LV disposed of AG's property in 1 or 2 weeks after her demise? I hear sour grapes, but that's jmo.

PK told us in thread #2, page 11, post #271 that 'I believe I've mentioned before that in her last year, AG and I talked a few times about what would happen after she was gone ...'.

I can't find a previous post that says that, but not important I'm sure.

Anyway, LV did her job as executrix in a timely fashion.

Genius work! :tyou:

 

[LilyMacBloom]

So why would PK state that LV disposed of AG's property in 1 or 2 weeks after her demise? I hear sour grapes, but that's jmo

Woodland, my take on the above was that PERSONAL property was dealt with in that time frame. As my friend also told me LV got dumpsters and threw out most of the house contents. Also, good work on the sale of property.

I asked my friend about AGs ring. The ring has never been mentioned and she will make enquires for us. After re-reading Mellors article posted by NSU I'm wondering if the ring was cut off and thereby the "trophy" . My friend again described the ring as "very beautiful".

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoted from LilyM:

I asked my friend about AGs ring. The ring has never been mentioned and she will make enquires for us. After re-reading Mellors article posted by NSU I'm wondering if the ring was cut off and thereby the "trophy" . My friend again described the ring as "very beautiful".


Thanks!! :tyou: I was researching trophies taken by murderers and the FBI says that expensive trophies (such as this beautiful ring) never make it to pawn shops, etc. If, in fact, the ring was taken as a trophy LE will be watching Ebay and pawn shops just in case the murder was done by someone in quick need of money (a drug addict type). But the FBI says that trophies are very personal and the killer keeps them to prolong the thrill of the kill.

 

[nicgumshoe]

Did we ever find out where AG bought her car?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Did we ever find out where AG bought her car?

No, I don't think we know that. I did some research (I'll have to try to locate the links again) and I found something about a K family owning a GM dealership in the Hamilton area.

If anyone else wants to assist me in this research, I'd like that very much!

 

[nicgumshoe]

No, I don't think we know that. I did some research (I'll have to try to locate the links again) and I found something about a K family owning a GM dealership in the Hamilton area.

If anyone else wants to assist me in this research, I'd like that very much!

I've seen one or 2 K technicians in the auto services.
Can't seem to find much with dealerships. Unless the ownership is buried somewhere in detail. Still looking.....

I was also wondering if she got it when many GM's were on sale during the auto company meltdown a few years ago. Do we know it was brand new...or used?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

It seems to me AG had a 2010 Camaro, very new:

LINK - http://www.google.com/search?q=2010...e=univ&ei=zaO6TpCDN8Li2AXvsejBBw&ved=0CD4QsAQ

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Just as a reminder for us, here's what FBI Agent Safarik said:

A behavioural profile of the killer in the Audrey Gleave case likely would have suggested the perpetrator was a younger male, in his 20s or early 30s, and someone who had known Audrey, or known of her, which was not the case with David Scott.

“(The killer) has knowledge that an elderly female lives there by herself,” said Mark Safarik, a retired FBI profiler with expertise in violent crime against the elderly.

Safarik said those who kill the elderly “are not opportunistic offenders. They are not breaking into a place and stumbling upon the victim. He knows she’s there, know she’s by herself, and he goes there with intent to sexually assault and murder her. This is different than prior research suggesting women were opportunistic victims of non-violent offenders who become violent at the scene.”

These are angry young men with pent-up rage toward women and likely live with a female authority figure, he said. They are socially incompetent men who perceive little control in their lives, are typically undereducated, have substance abuse problems and are unemployed or in a menial job.

“For these guys, there is not a lot of planning, and they don’t stay at the scene long. They leave evidence, don’t clean up. They don’t think that far ahead.”

They use far more violence than necessary to kill. Overkill is indicative of their anger. This had been the case on Indian Trail.

They attack elderly women because they are easy targets — a child does not present as ready a victim because he is seen as having guardianship, whereas an elderly woman on her own has none. These killers also tend to live relatively close to their victim.

“But a homeless guy in his 40s or 50s?” Safarik asked rhetorically when considering the Gleave case. “Hmm … My advice is look young and look close.”



This is taken from the Jon Wells set of interviews.

ETA: Ooooops, I forgot the link:

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/595858--who-is-audrey-gleave

 

[nicgumshoe]

He's (Safarik) probably right, but I don't think totally. As we thought before, a mix from columns a and b of the sk types.....that's still my belief. Certainly PK doesn't fit Safarik's profile, at least with respect to education.

Sadly, whatever evidence he left hasn't been very helpful to LE so far...and maybe that indicates the perp is smarter than expected.

You'd think LE would have narrowed it down somewhat by now....examining neighbors and friends, and folks at places she frequented. People who were "close" in some way.

 

[dotr]

This article deals with sk's, but this interview with U.K profiler is different and refreshing , imo.The copyright laws on this site make it impossible to post the important points that may relate to AG's case , but I am sure a few on that one longish page will jump out at you...
http://www.newcriminologist.com/article.asp?cid=158&nid=2174

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I agree with you, nicgumshoe about the killer being well-educated.

Now - IF the killer is less educated than PK is (as per the FBI's suggestion), I wonder about PK's brothers! Have they been tested/polygraphed? How well did they know AG? Especially the K brother who works on GM vehicles. Did he know AG and her car? Was he her mechanic? Did he assist her in choosing her new Camaro? Has PK had "discrepancies" in the polygraph in order to protect someone else?

Questions..............:waitasec:

 

[shadowraiths]

Imo, the only thing that qualifies LV for the POI pool, is that she was the executrix. Money, unfortunately, does things to people. So, if I were going to investigate her, I would want to know if she and her family were experiencing financial difficulties. Was their home in foreclosure? That sort of thing.

There are however a number of things that rule her out. For one, she is a "she". Importantly, females generally kill by smothering or poisoning... stuff that's less notably violent. That is, unless they're drugged out of their head like the woman who murdered her two-year-old son under a cocaine-induced psychosis, some years ago. She's in a state mental hospital and will doubtfully every be released.

But, I digress.

From article, Audrey had not only been stabbed multiple times, but her attacker used more than a knife. ( link ) And recall, when they first picked up the homeless man, it was in response to neighbors reporting they had seen him wandering around carrying an axe. So, while LE did not specify the other weapon, it seems like it may have been an axe. In any event, the attacker had been especially vicious. Hence the qualifying "overkill."

In other words, the only motive I could see, were LV the killer, would be money. Yet, the crime scene, that is, what we know of the crime scene, bespeaks of intense and blinding rage. Something that goes above and beyond greed. For this reason, I, personally, do not see LV as a viable POI.

That being said, I still would not necessarily rule out the possibility of a female perp. After all, as they say, hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

 

[shadowraiths]

I agree with you, nicgumshoe about the killer being well-educated.

Now - IF the killer is less educated than PK is (as per the FBI's suggestion), I wonder about PK's brothers! Have they been tested/polygraphed? How well did they know AG? Especially the K brother who works on GM vehicles. Did he know AG and her car? Was he her mechanic? Did he assist her in choosing her new Camaro? Has PK had "discrepancies" in the polygraph in order to protect someone else?

Questions..............:waitasec:

Speaking of cars... Iow, why LE brought in a collision reconstruction unit? ( link ) Was she run over with a car? Pinned against the Camero, perhaps, before being stabbed to death? Sorry, gruesome, I know. But from all accounts, her death was gruesome. And, for the life of me, I can't think of any other reason they'd bring in a collision reconstruction unit.

 

[Woodland]

I have wondered as well why the collision reconstruction unit. My only thought so far is do they also have the expertise necessary for a forensic review of a vehicle? Was LE ruling out the vehicle being used in some way?

 

[amron]

If the Camero had been involved in an accident, or caused damage of any kind including personal property, could it be related to the damaged mailbox? I believe the mailbox had been damaged twice. Perhaps someone ran out of patience ...retribution? I am thinking of a case where someone flipped out when their pet had been run over.

 

[dotr]

LOL! Nic

Today I was thinking about how murderers select a victim if that person was unknown to them. I was also thinking about why AG, SV etc. Came across this read and many many more! I found it interesting that incarcerated serial killers shown video of people walking on the street picked out specific people as targets just by body language. I also found it interesting that the nursing profession comes up!
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200812/marked-mayhem

Thanks for the link, I found that enjoyable to read and I took to heart some of the very good tips about keeping safe in public!

 

[dotr]

If the Camero had been involved in an accident, or caused damage of any kind including personal property, could it be related to the damaged mailbox? I believe the mailbox had been damaged twice. Perhaps someone ran out of patience ...retribution? I am thinking of a case where someone flipped out when their pet had been run over.

Welcome to WS amron! I agree that something about the mailbox damage and the flashiness of both AG and her car may have something to do with this angry, violent outburst against an older woman.

 

[Canadian4]

Welcome Amron. Could you please explain a little more what you mean about Ms Gleaves car in connection to her mailbox. I need things spelled out LOL, sorry about that. TIA.

 

[roseofsharon]

I'm starting to look at another possible angle for the murder. Perhaps, AG was a chosen victim by virtue of her home's location -- the perp able to walk/drive/bike away quickly without going past other homes on Indian Road. AG's home -- the last house in that small enclave of homes.

I'm beginning to wonder if AG was murdered as a means to an end. Someone possibly wanting to get rid of DLS living near THEIR home in an abandoned barn and hoping LE would nail him for the crime because the real perp thought LE would think DLS fit the profile of a killer -- homeless and suffering from a major mental illness.

Maybe the perp, after seeing DLS walking down the road, carrying an axe, couldn't take it any more and the fact that he was living so close to them in this barn.

The perp may have used AG as a tool to get what they really wanted -- ridding the area of DLS. Maybe there had been complaints made about DLS that fell on deaf ears, so the perp took things into their own hands.

The perp knew AG lived alone and knew they were safe to pull this off.

I wonder if LE has questioned people who lived close to the abandoned barn, especially those families with children, as I would imagine, where DLS was concerned, it was a NIMBY attitude by many.

The perp was desperate to rid the area of DLS and no doubt had a plan in place for a long time, but decided upon the time between Christmas and New Years when they saw DLS during the holidays and became enraged.

The overkill may have been what the perp thought a person with a mental illness would do.

The perp may have thought about the demise of DLS, but thought better of it due to living close to the barn, knowing LE would have come knocking.

IMO

 

[nicgumshoe]

If the Camero had been involved in an accident, or caused damage of any kind including personal property, could it be related to the damaged mailbox? I believe the mailbox had been damaged twice. Perhaps someone ran out of patience ...retribution? I am thinking of a case where someone flipped out when their pet had been run over.

Welcome and great point!

We've heard from PK that he believes hers was the only mailbox targeted (at least the last time it happened) . You'd think kids out for a vandalism run would take out a few.

It makes me think more that a neighbor was responsible, for that and the murder.