CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #3

[colette]

But....but..... aren't professional profilers "professional"? I doubt it was a "guess". Like your doctor is a professional - your doctor doesn't say 'Ah who knows, you might have a terminal illness or you might just have sprained your ankle. Who cares, we'll find out if you're still alive in three months!'

It might be just me, but I take the FBI's word pretty seriously!:waitasec:

A guess can be made until there is enough evidence for an arrest. It sounds like they don't have any evidence. Profiliers aren't always right and some are better than others.

Doctor's actually do make guesses on what a diagnosis could be, they then order tests which gives them the evidence on the correct diagnosis.

 

[Sillybilly]

I don't recall if the damage to the mailbox was intentional, if so, possibility AG could have caused damage to personal property with her car and this was retaliation( it happened in my neighbourhood, a mailbox was beat with a baseball bat). Perhaps completely unrelated to the murder.

Just a little something i'm throwing out here ... probably nothing:

PK initially said that AG chalked the mailbox issue up to a "random prank", then he subsequently said it "drove her bananas", and it ultimately evolved into she "hated the guts of whoever did it". I find the escalation in terminology, from what sounds like a mild annoyance to hatred, an interesting progression in a person's though process. Dunno ... possibly a bit of sensationalizing for the JW article while enjoying the spotlight.

JMO

 

[Sillybilly]

OK, just so we don't end up blaming the victim - I also like to bomb around in my car and I do speed a little. But I don't deserve to be murdered for that.

And I highly doubt that AG would harm any animal in any manner.

I'll have to loo up that Daniel Horowitz (sp??) case because I'm not familiar with it.

ETA: Here's the link to that murder mentioned in a post above:

LINK - http://crime.about.com/od/current/a/pam_vitale.htm

I don't think amron was blaming the victim ... merely suggesting a possible theory based on what has already been reported in the media.

 

[Sillybilly]

I have read AG liked to "bomb around, perhaps speeding a little" and a mishap of sorts could have occurred. More likely not related to the murder,just the mailbox damage, however, the case that comes to mind is the murder of Daniel Horowitz's wife where a jury found Dyleski, then 17, guilty of murdering Pamela Vitale on Oct. 15, 2005. Prosecutors said he did it, in part, because Dyleski was under the mistaken belief that Vitale ran over his dog.

Welcome amron !! :greetings:

Glad you've joined the thread

 

[amron]

OK, just so we don't end up blaming the victim - I also like to bomb around in my car and I do speed a little. But I don't deserve to be murdered for that.

And I highly doubt that AG would harm any animal in any manner.

I'll have to loo up that Daniel Horowitz (sp??) case because I'm not familiar with it.

ETA: Here's the link to that murder mentioned in a post above:

LINK - http://crime.about.com/od/current/a/pam_vitale.htm

No blame to the victim, just reaching for motive for a person who is not rationale. I am also certain AG would never knowing harm any animal. If (big if) the mailbox incident was intentional there could a reason.

 

[roseofsharon]

I've been thinking all day about AG. In particular all I've been reading about victims, how they are targeted and the different profilers opinions.
=think young...think close within 10 km
...therefore I put forth this....
an employee...OR someone else who is involved/connected with the VET ...stay with me...AG went to the vet for meds for the dogs...clearly she had an ongoing connection.

...AG could have expected this person, felt comfortable enough to meet him/ but not comfortable enough to let the dogs loose.

..please consider all employees, family members and fellow patients of said Vet.

I agree Lily and I also wondered about LV's family/friends -- whom AG may have gotten to know over the years. IMO, AG's friends, as well as acquaintances, are far more vast than was first reported.

 

[roseofsharon]

...btw, what would moving the body suggest about a killer? That he knew/didn't know the victim? Or just that he wanted the body in a special location that was part of a fantasy?

It seems like SV's killer really panicked after the murder....and took a lot of risks.

I heard the lady Dale (crime scene expert on tv show from USA) state that if a body is moved that the killer is most likely known to their victim.

 

[libyana]

I still wonder whether AG's killer was trying to get her body into the car and drive it somewhere but somehow got interupted, or found it too risky .

 

[roseofsharon]

There is a discrepancy between LE and PK regarding AG lying prone or supine, however, do we know the position of AG's body, i.e. was her body lying parallel to her vehicle and if so, were her feet pointing toward the garage door or was her head pointing toward the garage door or was the body found in a totally different position, i.e. fetal.

If her feet were pointing toward the garage door, (expert help here please) would this suggest she was struck upon exiting the kitchen door into the garage, thus the perp was probably in her home and was probably known to her and would make sense as to why the dogs were penned.

If her head was pointing toward the garage door, would this suggest she may have been seeing someone she knew out and as soon as she turned her back, she was struck.

IMO, whoever did this, knew they were in the clear, in that no one was going to be coming to AG's home, as she had been ill and had alerted at least three people to this fact via her email.

The big question WHY??? I don't think the murder was sexually motivated, but a sexual component carried out to make it appear that way.

Just imo

 

[roseofsharon]

I still wonder whether AG's killer was trying to get her body into the car and drive it somewhere but somehow got interupted, or found it too risky .

Good point, eerily such as the perp did with SV!

 

[libyana]

She was on her back so she was probably facing the killer, a quick violent death would leave the eyes open. Or, she was dragged from somewhere by the feet or under the arms but always face up I suppose. did the beating or sexual assault kill her and what came first. The beating probably.

 

[nicgumshoe]

If it is the same killer as SV then I think we're looking for someone at least 5'10" based on the boot size of 10-11.

boot size mentioned here:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/crime/article/858113--footprint-may-lead-to-sonia-s-killer-opp

True some guys have big feet for their height, but not that many. If it's an 11, I'd say 6'+

 

[roseofsharon]

She was on her back so she was probably facing the killer, a quick violent death would leave the eyes open. Or, she was dragged from somewhere by the feet or under the arms but always face up I suppose. did the beating or sexual assault kill her and what came first. The beating probably.

Respectfully, AG was a large women and from recent photos prior to her death, appeared to be close to 200 lbs. (just guessing) so the perp would have to be extremely strong to drag her body and imo, I don't think would have taken the time to do this.

Maybe AG was being forced to drive perp somewhere, resisted, and was struck beside her vehicle.

only imo

 

[dotr]

Thinking about the ring again...
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2011/11/10/18951851.html
A Chicago man is charged with beating an elderly woman to death and robbing her of her wedding and engagement rings.

Prosecutors say Raymond Harris, 36, used the rings to propose to his girlfriend at a party on Oct. 22 - the same day 73-year-old Virginia Perillo was found dead at her home - reports NBC Chicago.

Perillo was a registered nurse at Rush University Medical Center for the past 40 years.

A neighbour driving by saw her garage door open and found her body, unresponsive, on the ground, according to the report

 

[libyana]

for some reason I picture a biggish fit guy in all these attacks and murders , even if the are not related. All the women young and fit and older were overpowered in a brutal manner.

 

[Sillybilly]

I still wonder whether AG's killer was trying to get her body into the car and drive it somewhere but somehow got interupted, or found it too risky .

AG's seeming lack of company, combined with the location doesn't sound too risky. As for being interrupted, as far as we know, PK seems to have been the only person to approach the house since LV was there. Given PK's description of dried blood at the scene, it appears that no other innocent person visited. The perp seemed to be able to operate without interruption, unless possibly the sound of the neighbours barking dogs scared them off. That would scuttle any idea the perp may have had of transporting the body. I can't see why a perp would transport her to Location B when they seemed to have all the privacy in the world at the house.

I've wondered if AG herself was trying to get to her vehicle, possibly to set off an alarm for neighbours to hear. IIRC though, PK thought the keys were in the house with her purse. Of course, LE could be putting out a bit of misinformation in some regard.

JMO

 

[roseofsharon]

Does the Lynden General Store make home deliveries. The white van appears to be a delivery vehicle.

http://maps.google.ca/maps/place?hl...98dc1d2ab1,Lynden,+ON&cid=2221558373122145591

 

[nicgumshoe]

Does the Lynden General Store make home deliveries. The white van appears to be a delivery vehicle.

http://maps.google.ca/maps/place?hl...98dc1d2ab1,Lynden,+ON&cid=2221558373122145591

Even if they do, my guess is a delivery would be logged somehow, and there'd probably be a related phone record. So it would have been investigated already.

 

[nicgumshoe]

I'm wondering if LE took the blood and DNA samples from the dogs to see if they'd been tazed. It could explain why a perp might have had no fear of the dogs.

This article seems to discuss a tazer study on pigs, and mentions various changes that occur with blood and other areas. (it's a pdf...and not easy reading)

http://charlydmiller.com/LIB08/2006AugTaserAcidosisPigStudy.pdf

 

[dotr]

Respectfully, AG was a large women and from recent photos prior to her death, appeared to be close to 200 lbs. (just guessing) so the perp would have to be extremely strong to drag her body and imo, I don't think would have taken the time to do this.

Maybe AG was being forced to drive perp somewhere, resisted, and was struck beside her vehicle.

only imo

I wonder if a completely opposite perp size might account for the brutality of the crime. Maybe the perp was not strong or big at all and therefore had to apply extra force to subdue and dominate a 'larger woman" ?