CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #3

[dotr]

Past my bedtime, but just found this link that may or may not have been posted and may or may not be relevent, but just in case I will post now-think later lol.
http://nuclear.carboncapturereport.org/cgi-bin//profiler?key=Marie_Doveika&pt=2

 

[nicgumshoe]

Just thinking of the taser scenario again....and that perhaps the perp could be a member of LE.

Taser or not, AG (and SV) probably would have let an officer in. (We know SV had several dealings with LE about noisy neighbors, and I believe something else, prior to her murder).

 

[libyana]

I hope LE is being checked as well as military. There is always a lot of military activity around Orangeville area, I have often seen soldiers in the Timmies near SV's place.
Could explain why there is no activity now, maybe someone is overseas.

 

[libyana]

I cannot get a stalking and ambush scenario out of my mind.

 

[nicgumshoe]

I think that's gotta be the case (some form of stalking) for SV and possibly SL.

For AG, I'm not sure. But could be.

One thing I'm amazed by is why LE don't go on a bigger media campaign with the boots (from the SV case) and the composite (from the SL case). I think only some of the general public is aware of these, from smaller blurbs in the media. But they should be plastered on the front of newspapers for a week straight, and headline tv news for another week.

Those boots would surely be a dead giveaway...if the right person knew LE was looking for them. They can't be that common. They gotta keep asking; 'who do you know who has/had boots like these who knows the Orangeville/Caledon area.'

And I bet there's more info than they've found in store sales records. For example, I wonder if they ever checked to see if there was a sale of yellow-soled work boots and a two-tone winter jacket to one customer, at some MWW.

 

[libyana]

These boots are actually very common, I bet theres a pair in every other family around here. the perp had a week to get rid of them and any clothes for that matter.
AG's killer must have had a fair amount of blood on him though.

 

[libyana]

By the way, I mean no disrespect to LE or military, but i just hope they are not being overlooked. There is a big army base north of Orangveille i believe If someone can enlighten me.

 

[Woodland]

I like the possibility of someone impersonating LE in light of the ex-Peel cop caught and charged for having LE badges neither he nor anyone else should have. I find the potential for them having been used in past and future crimes incalculable.

 

[roseofsharon]

By the way, I mean no disrespect to LE or military, but i just hope they are not being overlooked. There is a big army base north of Orangveille i believe If someone can enlighten me.

I think it is CFB Borden

 

[roseofsharon]

I have a feeling the perp passed AG's door on several occasions, either to get home driving or bicycling, jogging/running, out for a walk, geocaching, making a delivery, i.e. mail, department store, drugstore or utilitiy repair (gas/hydro), LE, road work, telephone/cable, septic system repair and we know of the recent installation of the convection oven and that AG supposedly told PK that person was rude to her.

It is hard to conceive of someone visiting a person(s) living on that road during the holidays and decided to do this. It would have been too risky even if they knew AG lived alone and with dogs, they would not have known that someone could have pulled into the driveway at any time during the holiday season.

There must be several more reasons to be on that particular road. I would think only the locals know it as a back road into Brantford, as it is off the beaten track.

I'm also wondering what type of books AG took out from the Lynden library, which she supposedly visited once per week.

Also, wondering about any affiliations with the local high school in Lynden.

We have not forgotten you Audrey!!!

imo

 

[libyana]

I would also like to know how active the trails were behind her property. I take it they were thoroughly searched.

 

[Sillybilly]

Since AG's case started, I've been mentally rummaging on a middle-aged Hamilton dude who hails from Innisfil ... and just happens to absolutely hate his mother who is the same age as AG. Other than last known to be living in Hamilton and hating his mother, I certainly don't have any way of connecting him to AG.

I am however now wondering about 29 y.o. Andrew Keene of Innisfil who has recently been charged with the 2007 murder and dismemberment of Alexandra Flanagan. I am particularly interested in who AK hangs with from that area, and if he has friends/connections in Hamilton.

 

[nicgumshoe]

It is hard to conceive of someone visiting a person(s) living on that road during the holidays and decided to do this. It would have been too risky even if they knew AG lived alone and with dogs, they would not have known that someone could have pulled into the driveway at any time during the holiday season.

I think that's a very good point (about it being risky because the killer would never know who might pull into the drive). But I think it can be extended to anyone, and not just someone visiting the neighborhood.

That suggests to me that the killer either knew AG very well, planned to kill her and knew no-one would come, or he knew her to alt least some degree, didn't plan on killing her, but went into a rage.

Or, it happened later at night when the chances of someone suddenly appearing were far less.

Still, I'm going with the notion it happened on the 27th, at a time when someone might normally drop by. She crated the dogs or put them in the basement and then let the killer into the garage. Her comms seem to end at 6 pm with that last email. I think she would have done more that night, had she been alive.

 

[Sillybilly]

I have a feeling the perp passed AG's door on several occasions, either to get home driving or bicycling, jogging/running, out for a walk, geocaching, making a delivery, i.e. mail, department store, drugstore or utilitiy repair (gas/hydro), LE, road work, telephone/cable, septic system repair and we know of the recent installation of the convection oven and that AG supposedly told PK that person was rude to her.

It is hard to conceive of someone visiting a person(s) living on that road during the holidays and decided to do this. It would have been too risky even if they knew AG lived alone and with dogs, they would not have known that someone could have pulled into the driveway at any time during the holiday season.

There must be several more reasons to be on that particular road. I would think only the locals know it as a back road into Brantford, as it is off the beaten track.

I'm also wondering what type of books AG took out from the Lynden library, which she supposedly visited once per week.

Also, wondering about any affiliations with the local high school in Lynden.

We have not forgotten you Audrey!!!

imo

<bbm>

The part bolded above is what leads me to believe it is someone who knew AG well enough to know that her home was not frequented by more than a very select few, and that the dogs would be confined for whatever reasons. I think it could also explain the barking dogs around 2:30 am ... the perp knew that only LV and PK frequented her home, and may have felt totally secure in knowing that nobody would be interrupting in the wee hours.

As for the guy who installed the oven having been rude to AG, thus far we only have PK's say-so on that.

ETA: LOL nicgum ... just now read your post and seems we were both on the very same track.

 

[Sillybilly]

Still, I'm going with the notion it happened on the 27th, at a time when someone might normally drop by. She crated the dogs or put them in the basement and then let the killer into the garage. Her comms seem to end at 6 pm with that last email. I think she would have done more that night, had she been alive.

<rsbm>

If the dogs had been crated or confined since Monday evening, I would think there would have been quite a mess. Mind you, if they weren't being fed, this may have minimized the squallor.

If what PK says is true (that he was able to do yard work with the dogs out and about, and was able to visit with AG while the dogs were not confined), then this brings us back to LV who stated to the effect (will have to search) that she and AG visited outside and the dogs were confined when she was there. Presumably the dogs would have been confined when LV came by with the soup on the 27th.

When this case started, I used to get Linda F and LV mixed up. Now that I have them straight in my mind, I wonder why AG sent the Amazing Grace email to LF and PK, but not LV (that we know of).

 

[roseofsharon]

Boxing Day 2010 -- wondering who attended the supper at LV's that day.

Is LV married, grown children, grandchildren, etc., and did other friends attend the supper that day?

Did AG converse with all the parties in attendance that day?

What time did AG leave LV's on Boxing Day and did she go straight home or make other stops first? Perhaps, this is where the perp first saw AG in her white Camaro.

Also wondering about that soup -- what kind of soup was it and was it found in some sort of container in AG's fridge, as surely it was not just one bowl of soup. When someone isn't feeling well and being brought soup, it is usually a small pot of soup to get them through a few days.

If the soup was homemade -- when was it made. Was it frozen and thawed homemade? If it was made the morning of the 27th, that is very energetic on LV's part, as post holidays is a tiring time.

What time was the soup dropped off to AG?

Still wondering why one wouldn't do a second check on a friend under the weather, even to see if the soup made AG feel a little better.

So many questions!!! The smallest piece of information could give us clues!!

IMO

 

[roseofsharon]

Do we know where AG purchased gas for her car and if she used the same gas station and who was working at that gas station between Christmas and New Years.

Were there any receipts for anything found in AG's home during this period of time.

 

[nicgumshoe]

<rsbm>

If the dogs had been crated or confined since Monday evening, I would think there would have been quite a mess. Mind you, if they weren't being fed, this may have minimized the squallor.

If what PK says is true (that he was able to do yard work with the dogs out and about, and was able to visit with AG while the dogs were not confined), then this brings us back to LV who stated to the effect (will have to search) that she and AG visited outside and the dogs were confined when she was there. Presumably the dogs would have been confined when LV came by with the soup on the 27th.

When this case started, I used to get Linda F and LV mixed up. Now that I have them straight in my mind, I wonder why AG sent the Amazing Grace email to LF and PK, but not LV (that we know of).

I agree there would be a mess to some extent. But I thought PK only stated he didn't notice a mess in the house...which suggests they were crated and taken out (for testing or to a shelter) still in the crates....

I think LV may have stated that they were sometimes crated and sometimes not when she was on the bench (same too...gotta search...think I re-read that the other day). That she didn't feel comfortable with them is for sure.

So, when AG sent that last email around 6 pm would the dogs have been in the crate? I doubt it, unless she was planning to retire early. (That's a possibility but I consider it unlikely).

My understanding is, the neighbors dog(s) weren't heard until the wee hours of the 29th; around 32 hours or so after that last email (ie: her last known comms with anyone). I think she was definitely gone by the morning of the 28th, but based on her habits of being a night owl, that she would have been on her pc and probably would have emailed someone else if she were still alive much past 6 pm on the 27th.

 

[roseofsharon]

I agree there would be a mess to some extent. But I thought PK only stated he didn't notice a mess in the house...which suggests they were crated and taken out (for testing or to a shelter) still in the crates....

I think LV may have stated that they were sometimes crated and sometimes not when she was on the bench (same too...gotta search...think I re-read that the other day). That she didn't feel comfortable with them is for sure.

So, when AG sent that last email around 6 pm would the dogs have been in the crate? I doubt it, unless she was planning to retire early. (That's a possibility but I consider it unlikely).

My understanding is, the neighbors dog(s) weren't heard until the wee hours of the 29th; around 32 hours or so after that last email (ie: her last known comms with anyone). I think she was definitely gone by the morning of the 28th, but based on her habits of being a night owl, that she would have been on her pc and probably would have emailed someone else if she were still alive much past 6 pm on the 27th.

I wonder why AG would crate the dogs before she retired for the night. I thought her dogs were guard dogs. Just curious.

However, it does reinforce the fact that the perp must have known the dogs were crated at night!

 

[nicgumshoe]

I wonder why AG would crate the dogs before she retired for the night. I thought her dogs were guard dogs. Just curious.

However, it does reinforce the fact that the perp must have known the dogs are crated at night!

I'm not 100% sure she did crate them b4 bed. Thought I read she did. Many folks seem to do that. I've always thought it weird too...I mean why confine your dogs during the hours when you might need them most?