CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #5

[amron]

Let's look at the motives for murder which are usually present:

1. Greed/money - it's possible in AG's case.

2. Revenge - possible, but I think it's unlikely.

3. Lust/sex - possible, but unlikely.

4. Psychopathic person - I'm still going with this one. I feel that AG was the victim of a 'dear friend' who turned out to be a monster, a psychopathic killer.

Did I miss any other classic motives for murder?

5. Disagreement/argument - possible, but again, I feel it's unlikely in this case.

-----------------

ETA: I've also been thinking a great deal about "Amazing Grace" and here's what I found:

http://www.anointedlinks.com/amazing_grace.html

After reading this, two things hit me:
1. I hadn't remembered how many times the word grace (not unlike 'Gleave'??) appears in the lyrics.

2. And it's strongly a Christian poem/song. I truly cannot see AG sending this tune to two friends. The only way I could see AG loving this tune would be if (as I've suggested before) she was a member of an AA or NA group and she really had once been a "wretch who was now saved" by sobriety.

:twocents:

#1 - Money

 

[amron]

Now that is odd! I guess pk will have to come back
1) that's parents' addy (I remember the Poplar St.)
2) the site is under construction: http://www.badcompanymotors.com/

"Oh Somebody Double-crossed me" is the line that stands out for me.

 

[roseofsharon]

I have also been thinking about the vandalism to the mail box prior to A's murder.

Did this happen to any of the other residents on Indian Trail over the years and if so, what was the frequency of this occurring on that road.

I think the perp possibly vandalized AG's mailbox, as a ploy to make it appear A was being targeted.

Regarding the rural mail boxes and their parts -- according to PK, he and AG went to the hardware store (was it the hardware store in Lynden) to steal a part that was missing.

I did a quick check on rural mail boxes and their parts -- so if they went to steal a nut or bolt, I don't get it and if a bigger part of a mailbox was being stolen - why?? The hardware store, I would think, had video surveillance of the store.

IMO, to relay such a story is not flattering to the victim in any way -- "She was so excited, it was her big night". So PK and AG went out at night to do this?

imo

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

"Oh Somebody Double-crossed me" is the line that stands out for me.

Many of the lines stand out, in my humble opinion. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I cannot see a woman in her '70's "double-crossing" anyone. Unless - the notion of having been "double-crossed" is only a perception in the killer's mind.

That said, who and how and why could AG have 'double-crossed'?

Did AG sort of promise to assist PK with his thesis, with his wedding plans, with BCM, with something..........? :dunno:

:twocents:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoted from roseofsharon:

IMO, to relay such a story is not flattering to the victim in any way -- "She was so excited, it was her big night". So PK and AG went out at night to do this?


I know what you mean! It sounds like a Grade Nine girl bragging about having done something risque with the high school football star!

:twocents:

 

[amron]

Many of the lines stand out, in my humble opinion. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I cannot see a woman in her '70's "double-crossing" anyone. Unless - the notion of having been "double-crossed" is only a perception in the killer's mind.

That said, who and how and why could AG have 'double-crossed'?

Did AG sort of promise to assist PK with his thesis, with his wedding plans, with BCM, with something..........? :dunno:

:twocents:

Perception is correct.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

:seeya: To our nine guests! Hope one of them is LE and I also hope one of them is the killer!:seeya:

1 members and 9 guests

 

[amron]

Many of the lines stand out, in my humble opinion. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I cannot see a woman in her '70's "double-crossing" anyone. Unless - the notion of having been "double-crossed" is only a perception in the killer's mind.

That said, who and how and why could AG have 'double-crossed'?

Did AG sort of promise to assist PK with his thesis, with his wedding plans, with BCM, with something..........? :dunno:

:twocents:

Taking a step back to this scenario: young gal befriends older single male, accepts payments and/or loans (perhaps for education) and after graduating is expected to pay loans back. This is in contradiction to what she perceived to be a fair trade, between close friends, for many years of "companionship" and attention.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Taking a step back to this scenario: young gal befriends older single male, accepts payments and/or loans (perhaps for education) and after graduating is expected to pay loans back. This is in contradiction to what she perceived to be a fair trade, between close friends, for many years of "companionship" and attention.

Comments/queries about the parts I've underlined and bolded:

1. Where does this "older single male" live? (Still thinking of the word "close").

2. The "companionship" part - this takes the term 'recluse' right out of the picture.

3. Regarding "companionship and attention" - was AG ever seen out in public as this man's 'companion'/date/friend/etc.?

4. Returning to the K family - could this "older gentleman" be related to the young PK? If so, does the young PK know about this possible arrangement? (Still thinking about the phrase "young and close".)

Summary:

So, if the proposed theory from amron holds true (combined with info we have from LE) - is this a profile of AG's killer:

1. He knew AG well.

2. He had access to AG's house, garage, possibly car.

3. The motive would be financial revenge/possibly sexual revenge.

4. Could he be a member of the 'coffee group'?

5. Did he act alone? Or, was he assisted by someone young?

6. Does LV know him?

7. Does Mrs. PK know him?

Sooo many questions............:twocents:

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ETA: If this older guy/young gal scenario is correct, we have to assume that the "older man" is now in his eighties or at least late seventies.

Could a man of that age brutally stab and beat a woman to death? I propose that (if the scenario is correct) this older guy had help with the killing - ie: 'young and close'. hwow::juggle:hwow:

 

[roseofsharon]

:seeya: To our nine guests! Hope one of them is LE and I also hope one of them is the killer!:seeya:

1 members and 9 guests

I see so many names on this forum from time to time, usually late at night, who never post!!!

 

[roseofsharon]

Since AG, retired school teacher, approx. pension $50-65 K a year, as previously posted some time ago, with only approx. $50,000.00 in the bank or wherever the money was kept, have lent a considerable amount of her savings to a so-called friend and 2011 was the year it was to start being paid back??

The perp perhaps visiting during the xmas week to discuss an extension on the loan and being turned down and then leaving, becoming enraged about it, and returning with a weapon. AG coming into the garage, thinking the friend had forgotten something and then viciously attacked and murdered.

Whomever did the deed was very very angry about something!!!

IMO

Further thought: Could one of the items missing from AG's home have been a promissory note?

 

[Woodland]

Seems to me amron is making a comparison rather than introducing new characters?

I like your latest scenario roseofsharon and quite agree it falls into a money motive, but in addition I see that a possible extension was refused long before Christmas - just carried out then with the thought she would be forgotten in the short term.

 

[Woodland]

I'm glad so many people visit this site - it's very nice for Audrey that she is thought of.

 

[flipflop]

Since AG, retired school teacher, approx. pension $50-65 K a year, as previously posted some time ago, with only approx. $50,000.00 in the bank or wherever the money was kept, have lent a considerable amount of her savings to a so-called friend and 2011 was the year it was to start being paid back??

The perp perhaps visiting during the xmas week to discuss an extension on the loan and being turned down and then leaving, becoming enraged about it, and returning with a weapon. AG coming into the garage, thinking the friend had forgotten something and then viciously attacked and murdered.

Whomever did the deed was very very angry about something!!!

IMO

Further thought: Could one of the items missing from AG's home have been a promissory note?

I had never thought of that, but, who else would know it was missing or even existed. If the murderer was the one that borrowed money and AG the lender....not unless they had a witness sign it as well.

 

[roseofsharon]

[/b]

I had never thought of that, but, who else would know it was missing or even existed. If the murderer was the one that borrowed money and AG the lender....not unless they had a witness sign it as well.

She may have mentioned it to LV, as LV was her Executrix and she may have told her that should she (AG) pass away, there were monies owing to the estate and the paperwork/promissory note could be located in the house in a certain location.

Maybe I am watching too much Murder She Wrote!!!

imo

 

[roseofsharon]

I'm glad so many people visit this site - it's very nice for Audrey that she is thought of.

It is a good thing for sure for AG, but would like to read their opinions on the case.

Just imo.

 

[dotr]

I wonder if it is now accepted that the person who was first charged with the crime ..and later released, is innocent.I wonder if that person might know the killer?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I see so many names on this forum from time to time, usually late at night, who never post!!!

Hi roseofsharon! I'm happy many, many people are looking at this thread late at night. It makes me happy that Audrey has many angels looking out for her now. Looking for :justice:.

About the items missing from the house:
- who informed LE that A, B and C were missing?
- where in the house were these things located - in one room or scattered about from room to room?
- how did the killer know exactly where the items were in order to take them?
- how long had the killer been inside the house - before or after killing AG?
- hiding place - I wonder if AG had a special hiding place (a fake book cover, etc.) where only the killer would know to search?

Above all, I have to ask why the overkill if money was the motive? LE has stated clearly that the killer "is known to AG". Do LE know exactly who they are looking for and are they waiting are for the killer to mess up somehow?

Questions............:twocents:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I wonder if it is now accepted that the person who was first charged with the crime ..and later released, is innocent.I wonder if that person might know the killer?

I also was wondering if the man in the barn could at least point out a picture of the killer. Or perhaps provide LE with a composite drawing of the killer. Did DLS perhaps come face to face with the killer and not even realise what was about to happen? Or, did DLS simply see the killer and think that this 'friend' was a regular visitor at AG's house and then think nothing more of it?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

To amron:

Regarding your theory about borrowing/lending money as a motive for murder, I have a question:

Do you mean that AG owed money to the killer or are you proposing that the killer owed money to AG? Therefore, when the killer was unable to pay up (perhaps AG wanted to purchase more things for her home like the convection oven) he decided to end the situation once and for all.

Kindly explain your theory when you have a moment.

:tyou: