CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #5

[amron]

With all due respect, just another thought I had after reviewing some of PK's manuscripts online.

How on earth did he have the time to do anything for AG. I can understand the occasional email to say hello, but other than that, his university workload was massive, it would appear.

Obtaining his Masters in Engineering was intense and clearly one would have to be focused. He, apparently, had to break dates with his fiance at the time AT.

IMO

Very interesting observation!

 

[LilyMacBloom]

snipped

Have permission from J Wells to post the following comments via some correspondence we have had in the last couple of months.

JW spoke with LE recently for an update on AG's case. Jon says, that the sense he gets from LE on the case is,when a new person
is charged after LE builds a case against them, LE will also be required to prove DS did not kill her.

Am I reading too much into the WHEN a new person is charged. I'm feeliing hopeful as the wording was not IF a new person is charged. Hopeful on my part this means LE has a POI and they are lining up their ducks.

 

[roseofsharon]

Let's look at the motives for murder which are usually present:

1. Greed/money - it's possible in AG's case.

2. Revenge - possible, but I think it's unlikely.

3. Lust/sex - possible, but unlikely.

4. Psychopathic person - I'm still going with this one. I feel that AG was the victim of a 'dear friend' who turned out to be a monster, a psychopathic killer.

Did I miss any other classic motives for murder?

5. Disagreement/argument - possible, but again, I feel it's unlikely in this case.

-----------------

ETA: I've also been thinking a great deal about "Amazing Grace" and here's what I found:

http://www.anointedlinks.com/amazing_grace.html

After reading this, two things hit me:
1. I hadn't remembered how many times the word grace (not unlike 'Gleave'??) appears in the lyrics.

2. And it's strongly a Christian poem/song. I truly cannot see AG sending this tune to two friends. The only way I could see AG loving this tune would be if (as I've suggested before) she was a member of an AA or NA group and she really had once been a "wretch who was now saved" by sobriety.

:twocents:

- Jealousy
- To silence that person re classified info known only to the victim and the perp
- Theft
- Burden - ?

I'll try to think of more NS ;-)

 

[dotr]

- Jealousy
- To silence that person re classified info known only to the victim and the perp
- Theft
- Burden - ?

I'll try to think of more NS ;-)

Blocking/challenging someone's plans for development or change of some kind.

"Retribution" for some real or imagined slight.

No reason , nutbar wanted to see what it would be like to murder someone and chose AG because she did not have a family to demand answers if she was murdered.

Wrong target.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Blocking/challenging someone's plans for development or change of some kind.

This made me think of something - was there any chance that the property where AG lived was being looked at by some sort of big development of some kind?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

With all due respect, just another thought I had after reviewing some of PK's manuscripts online.

How on earth did he have the time to do anything for AG. I can understand the occasional email to say hello, but other than that, his university workload was massive, it would appear.

Obtaining his Masters in Engineering was intense and clearly one would have to be focused. He, apparently, had to break dates with his fiance at the time AT.

IMO

Well :tyou: roseofsharon for putting into words something which has bothered me for quite some time now!

So if PK truly continued to do yard work, etc. for AG he must have had a very good reason to do so. I mean, a reason other than being kind towards an elderly friend.

What was the payoff for doing so? Was AG giving him tips for his thesis? Or..... was he really still doing work for AG as he's indicated?

When we look at PK's overall picture at the time of the murder, here's what he was able to do:
- bake cakes
- live as a newlywed husband
- presumably, continue his church-going ways
- continue with his scholarly pursuits
- send e-mails to friends
- care that AG was unwell for the cake's original delivery date
- set up websites for BCM
- continue to be a family guy (presumably)
- deliver the cake and discover the dead body
- deal with the 911 call and then with LE
- then fly off to California to present one of his thesis/papers
- etc. etc. etc. etc.

I'm exhausted from making the list here!

Where/how/when/why was PK capable of doing all of these things while remaining happily going about his life? It sounds like a soap opera!!

:twocents:

 

[Woodland]

Thank-you LilyMacBloom for highlighting the hopeful word 'when'. The actual wording was 'if they want to charge anyone new ...'

I'm still hopeful, albeit I believe there will be a waiting period, as HPS have stated their belief AG did know her killer. CHCH mentioned AG on 30 December, emphasizing her protective german sheppards were inside the house and unable to reach their master. CHCH did not credit anyone with that thought - a staff member or is LE attempting to placate the public they are moving forward?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Funny enough, the second recipient of Amazing Grace from AG over the holidays was AG's neighbor - and it was her son that was the first to say to the media the AG lived as a recluse. I always wondered why this 'young and close' son of a neighbor would say that. Why was he under this impression? Rumor? Many readers and posters here do not believe AG to have been a recluse.

I have neighbors that I do not know well, nor do I see what kind of activity goes on or not goes on at their homes - I would not be in a position to say any such thing to the media or anyone else should something news worthy happen at their home.

Woodland - I don't remember hearing that about the son. Do you have any idea how young he is? He sure would be close!

Thanks......

And I agree with both you and roseofsharon - how and why was AG labelled a "recluse"? That bothers me a great deal. First, I dislike labels. Secondly, to me, AG doesn't fit the definition of "recluse" as she tooled around in her Camaro, had coffee every Wednesday morning with friends, had LV and PK over to her house as friends. This label doesn't fit for me!

 

[roseofsharon]

Well :tyou: roseofsharon for putting into words something which has bothered me for quite some time now!

So if PK truly continued to do yard work, etc. for AG he must have had a very good reason to do so. I mean, a reason other than being kind towards an elderly friend.

What was the payoff for doing so? Was AG giving him tips for his thesis? Or..... was he really still doing work for AG as he's indicated?

When we look at PK's overall picture at the time of the murder, here's what he was able to do:
- bake cakes
- live as a newlywed husband
- presumably, continue his church-going ways
- continue with his scholarly pursuits
- send e-mails to friends
- care that AG was unwell for the cake's original delivery date
- set up websites for BCM
- continue to be a family guy (presumably)
- deliver the cake and discover the dead body
- deal with the 911 call and then with LE
- then fly off to California to present one of his thesis/papers
- etc. etc. etc. etc.

I'm exhausted from making the list here!

Where/how/when/why was PK capable of doing all of these things while remaining happily going about his life? It sounds like a soap opera!!

:twocents:

:twocents: - Would like to listen to the 911 call.

PK initially thought AG may have slipped and fallen on ice. I cannot remember what has been reported about the weather in the Brantford area during Christmas week 2010, but I thought it was unseasonally mild and foggy. If that is the case, what ice?

Did AG have an insulated garage door and if so, would there be ice formation on the garage floor? From what has been reported, AG kept her garage door closed.

imo

 

[roseofsharon]

Well :tyou: roseofsharon for putting into words something which has bothered me for quite some time now!

So if PK truly continued to do yard work, etc. for AG he must have had a very good reason to do so. I mean, a reason other than being kind towards an elderly friend.

What was the payoff for doing so? Was AG giving him tips for his thesis? Or..... was he really still doing work for AG as he's indicated?

When we look at PK's overall picture at the time of the murder, here's what he was able to do:
- bake cakes
- live as a newlywed husband
- presumably, continue his church-going ways
- continue with his scholarly pursuits
- send e-mails to friends
- care that AG was unwell for the cake's original delivery date
- set up websites for BCM
- continue to be a family guy (presumably)
- deliver the cake and discover the dead body
- deal with the 911 call and then with LE
- then fly off to California to present one of his thesis/papers
- etc. etc. etc. etc.

I'm exhausted from making the list here!

Where/how/when/why was PK capable of doing all of these things while remaining happily going about his life? It sounds like a soap opera!!

:twocents:

And also during this time, PK had a copy of his Masters Thesis bound and gifted it to AG.

Just wondering if AG was a friend of other members of the PK family, i.e. his parents, brothers, his wife or was this friendship with AG exclusive to the two of them. Did ATK ever visit AG with PK.

Who did AG sit with at the PK/AT wedding, how long did she stay, what did AG give the newlyweds for a wedding present.

 

[Woodland]

On 29 Dec 2010, the high for the day was -2 with traces of snow. It had been colder in the few days prior, as low as -12, but no snow.

The night of 29 to 30 Dec was -6 and rose to 4 later in the day with traces of rain.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

And also during this time, PK had a copy of his Masters Thesis bound and gifted it to AG.

Just wondering if AG was a friend of other members of the PK family, i.e. his parents, brothers, his wife or was this friendship with AG exclusive to the two of them. Did ATK ever visit AG with PK.

Who did AG sit with at the PK/AT wedding, how long did she stay, what did AG give the newlyweds for a wedding present.

Again, we think exactly alike! I've also been pondering these questions.

If I remember correctly, we were told (by PK????) that AG met PK at a gas station or at a sort of mechanics' shop. So, how could the PK family live so close to AG and not know her even slightly? Was her first meeting of the PK family at the gas station/mechanics' shop? If so, it seems odd to me.

Who did AG go to the wedding with? Alone? Did she drive herself there in the Camaro? Did other members of the wedding party know AG? And why was AG reluctant to go to the wedding in the first place? In fact, other than PK's word for it, how do we know for certain AG did attend the wedding?

:twocents:

 

[amron]

Anyone new may not have seen this clip from AG memorial service:
http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2917051

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Anyone new may not have seen this clip from AG memorial service:
http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2917051

:tyou: amron for this reminder. Now, we add to my previous list of the things PK seems to be capable of doing in the Dec - Jan 2010/2011 period of time:

- speak with LE
- speak on TV
- speak at AG's memorial
- undergo a polygraph
- all the while preparing Master's thesis.

Superman?

:twocents:

 

[Sillybilly]

Re where PK worked when he met AG:

from:
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/594717--audrey-s-story-continues

Phil had met Audrey four years earlier, in 2006, when he was 18 and in first year at McMaster.

He used to work at Windmill Power Equipment in Dundas. Audrey frequented the place and let it be known she needed someone to help her around her property. Phil gave it a shot. Back then, before he got married, he lived with his parents in Brantford, just a five-minute drive away from Audrey's.

<bbm>

I wonder if PK knew DLS, given they both lived in Brantford, and where PK's residence was in relation to the barn that DLS lived in.

ETA:

A small inconsistency, but it was initially reported that PK had known AG for 6 years:

from:
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/309473--that-s-so-audrey

Kinsman met Gleave about six years ago while working part-time at a small engine shop and began helping her around her house and garden. He shared a story about the first time Gleave hugged him &#8211; something she seldom did.

 

[dotr]

Anyone new may not have seen this clip from AG memorial service:
http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2917051

Thanks for that clip, snipped from the article some sentimental (and generous newlywed) comments...


"Spring was really Audrey's and my time," said Kinsman"

"I'm in shock. I thought we had lots of years to spend together."

 

[SideKick]

Hi just popping in... in regards to that video, the first time I viewed it and now this time, it appears to me that PK is talking too much. I could be wacked, but to me there's too many sentences...

 

[roseofsharon]

Thanks for that clip, snipped from the article some sentimental (and generous newlywed) comments...


"Spring was really Audrey's and my time," said Kinsman"

"I'm in shock. I thought we had lots of years to spend together."

Are the paternal and maternal grandmothers of PK still living? Just curious.

Also if ATK was the pastry chef at QF in Dundas, why would PK assist her with the cake -- again just curious. Ugh -- personally speaking, I couldn't stand that ;-(

Now besides soup from LV and cake from the K's, and apparently a special pasta sauce from the K's from time to time, I'm wondering what other foods AG had delivered and by whom?

When PK would spend those long days gardening with AG, what did they eat for lunch and while he was helping AG in the garden, what was ATK doing?

just imo

 

[roseofsharon]

Hi just popping in... in regards to that video, the first time I viewed it and now this time, it appears to me that PK is talking too much. I could be wacked, but to me there's too many sentences...

My initial thought was that ATK was told not to talk to reporters. I mean, at some point, she could have interjected a nice comment about AG, i.e. we will miss her, she was a really nice lady, it is such a tragedy or something of the like, but nothing!! It all looked too rehearsed to me.

Also, why did PK have to make the point that he drove ATK to work the day of discovery -- why would anyone care about that information.

Just IMO

 

[SideKick]

I thought that odd too, 'fortunately A had to work that day'.... so, she wasn't there to discover??... I agree, no need really, just so many words, be polite, offer some nice warm thoughts and end it.....