CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #5

[roseofsharon]

Regarding those Amazing Grace emails ...

If the perp knew AG's password, couldn't the perp log on using AG's login and password and send the emails from their own computer. They would not need to be physically present in AG's home.

This being said, I have never believed AG sent the Amazing Grace emails.

Also, have never read anywhere that AG ever emailed LV. It seems they only communicated via phone or in person.

imo

 

[roseofsharon]

Imo, AG's murder adds up to the age old motive of money. I think she was set up from Dec 23rd to the moment of her murder.

One of her closest friends placed themselves at her residence just prior to her murder and another found her. I question how this adds up statistically. The aftermath speaks for itself as well - none of AG's money was used as a reward for info and there is a second opinion from a lawyer that her probated Will is a little 'off'.

AG may have done up a Will in 2007 - it was not necessarily the same one found after she died. The last page could have been added to a new one - my lawyer strongly suggested looking for staple marks etc on that page. If HPS is smart - that shouldn't be possible now.

As previously noted, PK did have more than one dig at his employer and friend after her death - remarks inconceivable to many about a friend who met a horrible death. Trust LE has followed the money - money that would have been on the move before comments were made here. It's not possible to change historical transactions. LV wasn't all that kind to her friend in death either imo. Both of them give me a reason to look closer.

Hrab's mistake will take time to unravel and make right - but pretty sure it can be done.

AG has been described by close friends as "generous". I'm wondering if she was in the habit of lending large amounts of money or even gifting money to close friends. Would like to hear these close friends define "generous", as I was under the impression AG did not purchase xmas gifts or the like, so what else could it be -- generous with her time? Agree with Woodland -- follow the money and I have always felt that was the motive. IMO

 

[TracyLynnS]

Hi everyone! I'm new here but have been reading WS off and on for years. One reason I joined was because of my interest in AG's case.

I spent the last couple days reading almost everything in all the AG threads and the detailed 4 part news story that was linked. IIRC, the first person to be sent the Amazing Grace song (considered to be a bit out of character for AG) was PK. Is that correct?

If AG really did send the religious music to PK, it may not have been inspired by her own religious beliefs, but possibly was a kind gesture toward PK, who says he's a practicing Christian. Since this was during the traditional christmas holiday season, is it possible she thought he would appreciate it even though it probably wasn't to her taste?

Was it AG's neighbor who delivered the soup who was the other recipient of the same song later that same day?

These threads are HUGE! lol I'm going to try to go back and remind myself of where I saw the info in my questions to make sure it's correct. Might take me a while.

 

[roseofsharon]

Hi everyone! I'm new here but have been reading WS off and on for years. One reason I joined was because of my interest in AG's case.

I spent the last couple days reading almost everything in all the AG threads and the detailed 4 part news story that was linked. IIRC, the first person to be sent the Amazing Grace song (considered to be a bit out of character for AG) was PK. Is that correct?

If AG really did send the religious music to PK, it may not have been inspired by her own religious beliefs, but possibly was a kind gesture toward PK, who says he's a practicing Christian. Since this was during the traditional christmas holiday season, is it possible she thought he would appreciate it even though it probably wasn't to her taste?

Was it AG's neighbor who delivered the soup who was the other recipient of the same song later that same day?

These threads are HUGE! lol I'm going to try to go back and remind myself of where I saw the info in my questions to make sure it's correct. Might take me a while.

Welcome TracyLynn!! AG's friend of 30 years, LV, from all accounts, delivered the soup. The other recipient of the Amazing Grace email was her neighbour Linda, who lived across the street.

:seeya:

 

[roseofsharon]

OH MY -- another coincidence -- sorry for the repeat if this has already been posted previously ...

Amazing Grace

"AG"

Okay, this is no coincidence imo.

 

[Woodland]

There has never been a definitive report from LE to the public that DNA was found at the crime scene. The lawyer for DLS said after his release 'they do not have DNA'. Did he mean, LE does not have DNA from DLS at the crime scene, or they had no DNA at all at the time.

As a reminder, DLS was arrested a relatively short time after AG's murder - much sooner than the Center for Forensic Science can churn out evidence.

 

[Woodland]

Funny enough, the second recipient of Amazing Grace from AG over the holidays was AG's neighbor - and it was her son that was the first to say to the media the AG lived as a recluse. I always wondered why this 'young and close' son of a neighbor would say that. Why was he under this impression? Rumor? Many readers and posters here do not believe AG to have been a recluse.

I have neighbors that I do not know well, nor do I see what kind of activity goes on or not goes on at their homes - I would not be in a position to say any such thing to the media or anyone else should something news worthy happen at their home.

 

[dotr]

Welcome TracyLynnS!, This is a much older article pertaining to emails.


http://mobile.thestar.com/mobile/gta/article/914175“She was a very good teacher who knew her stuff,” he said. The last time Maciulis saw Gleave was on Dec. 22, during one of their Wednesday coffee get-togethers.

Gleave had emailed someone in their group to say she was not feeling well and wouldn’t make it to this week’s Wednesday meet-up, he said.

Gleave’s neighbour, Linda Ferguson, described her as a recluse, “almost like a hermit.”

“We knew she was lonely, but to die like this, I’m sorry she had to die alone,” said Ferguson, who lives with her husband, D, their adult son, C, and his girlfriend, J B.

For many years, neighbours knew Gleave only through the occasional friendly wave, Ferguson said.

But a couple of years ago,

Gleave asked for Ferguson’s email address, and after that she would occasionally pass on jokes, riddles and Internet links.

The last email Ferguson received from Gleave was on Monday night, when she passed on a link to a version of “Amazing Grace.”

That is the last time police believe anyone who knew Gleave had contact with her"

 

[dotr]

Funny enough, the second recipient of Amazing Grace from AG over the holidays was AG's neighbor - and it was her son that was the first to say to the media the AG lived as a recluse. I always wondered why this 'young and close' son of a neighbor would say that. Why was he under this impression? Rumor? Many readers and posters here do not believe AG to have been a recluse.

I have neighbors that I do not know well, nor do I see what kind of activity goes on or not goes on at their homes - I would not be in a position to say any such thing to the media or anyone else should something news worthy happen at their home.

"Down the street, Dl Ferguson said he saw Gleave "three times in four years, other than waving, going by in the car."

"She's been a loner all her life," he said.
http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/PrintArticle.aspx?e=2912179
"She would e-mail my mom or call her once a year, twice a year," said Ferguson's son, C. "She just liked to stay, stay to herself."

 

[roseofsharon]

Welcome TracyLynnS!, This is a much older article pertaining to emails.


http://mobile.thestar.com/mobile/gta/article/914175“She was a very good teacher who knew her stuff,” he said. The last time Maciulis saw Gleave was on Dec. 22, during one of their Wednesday coffee get-togethers.

Gleave had emailed someone in their group to say she was not feeling well and wouldn’t make it to this week’s Wednesday meet-up, he said.

Gleave’s neighbour, Linda Ferguson, described her as a recluse, “almost like a hermit.”

“We knew she was lonely, but to die like this, I’m sorry she had to die alone,” said Ferguson, who lives with her husband, D, their adult son, C, and his girlfriend, J B.

For many years, neighbours knew Gleave only through the occasional friendly wave, Ferguson said.

But a couple of years ago,

Gleave asked for Ferguson’s email address, and after that she would occasionally pass on jokes, riddles and Internet links.

The last email Ferguson received from Gleave was on Monday night, when she passed on a link to a version of “Amazing Grace.”

That is the last time police believe anyone who knew Gleave had contact with her"

Now if I could ask Linda F. a question, it would be ...

How do you happen to know AG died alone??

 

[TracyLynnS]

Thank you for the kind welcome, everyone!

I finally found the Jon Wells article (#1) with the info I was trying to remember. http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/595858--who-is-audrey-gleave

Quote regarding music emails:

On Monday, Dec. 27, 2010, the morning broke sunny and cold. Audrey had not been feeling well.

She sent an email to PK, a 22-year-old McMaster University engineering graduate student who did small jobs around the house and property for her.

<snipped for unrelated content>

In addition to sending the email to PK, she sent the same message later that day to LF, a neighbour across the street, whom she knew but had never welcomed inside the house.

Audrey always shared jokes, articles and videos by email. But this one was different. It was a concert rendition of a spiritual hymn. She was not a religious person, though, and never forwarded songs.

-----

Is the author stating that AG sent similar emails to both friends, but only included the religious music for her neighbor, or that both emails were absolutely identical, music and all?

 

[roseofsharon]

"Down the street, Dl Ferguson said he saw Gleave "three times in four years, other than waving, going by in the car."

"She's been a loner all her life," he said.
http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/PrintArticle.aspx?e=2912179
"She would e-mail my mom or call her once a year, twice a year," said Ferguson's son, C. "She just liked to stay, stay to herself."

This poor woman AG, minding her own business, living her life not bothering anyone, but if she was knocking on the neighbours' doors to borrow a cup of sugar or wanting to stop in for coffee and chit chat, they would be calling her the ole busy body. As far as being private -- what's wrong with being private and that was Miss AG's preogative to be that way. Live and let live -- sounds like some of the neighbours didn't miss a beat on what AG was up to. Geez!!!!

I really don't feel that there was anything out of the ordinary the way AG lived her life. It really makes me mad the way AG has been labelled.

My husband and I have neighbours too, but we don't report to them and they don't report to us every detail of our lives.

Okay, that's my rant and of course, as always just IMO!

Dotr -- A+++ retrieval of info!!!

 

[roseofsharon]

There has never been a definitive report from LE to the public that DNA was found at the crime scene. The lawyer for DLS said after his release 'they do not have DNA'. Did he mean, LE does not have DNA from DLS at the crime scene, or they had no DNA at all at the time.

As a reminder, DLS was arrested a relatively short time after AG's murder - much sooner than the Center for Forensic Science can churn out evidence.

IMO, if there was absolutely no DNA left at the scene or anywhere at all inside or outside the property or inside or outside the vehicle, or on AG's clothing or body, this perp must have worn a space suit, which tells me totally premeditated.

What type of occupation, would a person be totally covered up, head gear and all at that time of year. Not even a boot print!

Of course, there must be DNA of the close friends who visited inside the house, other than those who only sat on the bench outside to visit.

imo

 

[roseofsharon]

With all due respect, just another thought I had after reviewing some of PK's manuscripts online.

How on earth did he have the time to do anything for AG. I can understand the occasional email to say hello, but other than that, his university workload was massive, it would appear.

Obtaining his Masters in Engineering was intense and clearly one would have to be focused. He, apparently, had to break dates with his fiance at the time AT.

IMO

 

[roseofsharon]

Thank you for the kind welcome, everyone!

I finally found the Jon Wells article (#1) with the info I was trying to remember. http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/595858--who-is-audrey-gleave

Quote regarding music emails:

On Monday, Dec. 27, 2010, the morning broke sunny and cold. Audrey had not been feeling well.

She sent an email to PK, a 22-year-old McMaster University engineering graduate student who did small jobs around the house and property for her.

<snipped for unrelated content>

In addition to sending the email to PK, she sent the same message later that day to LF, a neighbour across the street, whom she knew but had never welcomed inside the house.

Audrey always shared jokes, articles and videos by email. But this one was different. It was a concert rendition of a spiritual hymn. She was not a religious person, though, and never forwarded songs.

-----

Is the author stating that AG sent similar emails to both friends, but only included the religious music for her neighbor, or that both emails were absolutely identical, music and all?

I think both emails were identical -- music included. AG, herself, not a religious person, but PK a devout Christian, but don't know about Linda F., however, I don't think one would have to be religious in any way to appreciate the email that was sent. Just IMO

 

[dotr]

If the "other" weapon turns out to be a screwdriver, I would find that meaningful given Audrey's public quip about that tool.. “Anyone who has the courage to pick up a screwdriver"...



http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/595858--who-is-audrey-gleave
"He spoke of a vicious stabbing but did not talk about other weapons — at least one other had been used — or the nature of the “sexual component” (it had included a perverse act that went beyond a conventional assault; the killer had taken something from the victim as though making off with a souvenir.)"


http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/595858--who-is-audrey-gleave
She was described in the article as a “cheerful blonde brandishing her soldering iron … glibly reeling off technical terms” as her Siamese cat, Ming, watched. She was quoted saying anyone could put a TV together: “Anyone who has the courage to pick up a screwdriver. That’s the beauty of it. Just read the instructions.”

 

[Hazel]

I think both emails were identical -- music included. AG, herself, not a religious person, but PK a devout Christian, but don't know about Linda F., however, I don't think one would have to be religious in any way to appreciate the email that was sent. Just IMO

My understanding was that Audrey disliked 'mass' e-mails, and she sent individual e-mails. Also judging by the content of the e-mail where she sent pk the AG YouTube link, it's apparent that e-mail was just meant for him.
I think Audrey sent Linda just the link, but I could be wrong.
In the email to pk she talked about her developing yet another infection, that she wouldn't miss the Wednesday coffee meet-up, because she was getting cabin fever, and she also commented that LV was coming over bringing her soup.
:waitasec: I often wondered if LV told LE about that soup, or if LE found about that soup thanks to the e-mail Audrey sent to PK....but I digress,

going back to the Amazing Grace song, this is just my humble opinion, but whenever I that song I always think of "slavery" in the US.

Being Christmas time, the version that I originally thought AG had sent is a very upbeat version, that I personally like, but some people think is disrespectful...maybe because I don't associate it with religion, and see the video as 'artistic'?

Here is the version I am referring to .... I wonder how Audrey felt about it. Will just post the link, hoping it doesn't appear embeded, in case some people feel it's a sacrilege or something, I mean no disrespect MOO
http://youtu.be/mnk0KjWxgMA

 

[Sillybilly]

Just to clarify re AG's emails to PK and LF, this is my understanding:

AG sent PK the Amazing Grace early on the morning of Dec 27th. Later that morning at 10:26, she sent PK another email relating to still not well, not wanting to miss Weds coffee, and that LV was to bring soup. Later that day, she sent the same email (PK's first) to LF that she had sent to PK in the morning, the Amazing Grace email:

starting around Para 10 on the following page of JW's articles:

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/595858--who-is-audrey-gleave

IMO, the second morning email to PK is from AG, otherwise who would have known that LV was to bring soup (ahem ... other than AG and LV)?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

A warm welcome to TracyLynn. This is very good - more people interested in finding justice for AG!

-----------------

ETA: Something else has been bothering me - PK (apparently) is a very Christian person. His belief system was embedded at a young age.

Did this severe belief system cause him to judge others harshly? Did he judge AG harshly? Could a difference in religious beliefs have led to AG's murder?

Religion vs. other beliefs have been known to cause wars, turmoil, many violent acts in this world.

:twocents:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Let's look at the motives for murder which are usually present:

1. Greed/money - it's possible in AG's case.

2. Revenge - possible, but I think it's unlikely.

3. Lust/sex - possible, but unlikely.

4. Psychopathic person - I'm still going with this one. I feel that AG was the victim of a 'dear friend' who turned out to be a monster, a psychopathic killer.

Did I miss any other classic motives for murder?

5. Disagreement/argument - possible, but again, I feel it's unlikely in this case.

-----------------

ETA: I've also been thinking a great deal about "Amazing Grace" and here's what I found:

http://www.anointedlinks.com/amazing_grace.html

After reading this, two things hit me:
1. I hadn't remembered how many times the word grace (not unlike 'Gleave'??) appears in the lyrics.

2. And it's strongly a Christian poem/song. I truly cannot see AG sending this tune to two friends. The only way I could see AG loving this tune would be if (as I've suggested before) she was a member of an AA or NA group and she really had once been a "wretch who was now saved" by sobriety.

:twocents: