CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #5

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Taking NSU's advice here: how do we know that the A Grace video was the Rieu version? Checked by LE? Wondering about the Holden House video that has had a huge number of hits. Sorry if this has already been discussed.

I forget the details right now, but I THINK someone (maybe Jon Wells??) wrote that the A Grace video was indeed the Rieu one.

Question:
What is Holden House?

*I confuse easily*

 

[Sillybilly]

... For some reason, haven given this case a rest for a couple of weeks I am interested in exploring what has been broached here before: that Audrey's death was somehow linked to her former employment at Chalk River or her scientific interests. Personally up till now I have favoured 1.financial motive with 2. violent sexual maniac not far behind and with 3.politics way behind.

But I was just thinking how neat it is that Audrey has a handyman she meets at an outdoor equipment store who is into electronic engineering or goes into that and that there may be bridge players with the same interests and in fact far greater accomplishments a related field.

The trouble I have had with that theory is that 1.Chalk River is so long ago what could she possibly know that is relevant now and 2. with all due respect to her smarts and what she potentially could have done she was a high school teacher which is pretty limiting with all the teaching. Westdale High is a short walk to the university though. So could it be some combo of science and romance? (Not thinking of PK here).

But maybe I am naive about something and there is some way her past work or present interests could be relevant. Can anyone help? Sorry for being a bit vague about the link between bridge and science it is on purpose.

(And ok I am finally going to search for that info on the coat from an earlier thread that NSU kindly suggested reading).

<rsbm>

Chorley, you might want to have a look at my old post (unfortunately, the article i linked to has gone poof):

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Audrey Gleave, retired teacher, viciously murdered in home, Ancaster Ontario


Although AG's affiliation with Chalk River is from many years ago, I am sure she would have been interested in what was happening in 2009 as it relates to the switch to McMaster. JMO

I also recall that there was an article about a group of students from McM that visited Chalk River, but i can't recall the details now. Will scout around and see if i can find a post that I may have made about it.

 

[Sillybilly]

Interesting point: says he didn't discuss science with A then retracts saying ok horticulture is a science he forgot that. 'He spent 90% of his time with her talking about flowers/plants, current events, and the books SHE WAS READING' (not that he was reading). Overall this feeling Audrey has something that's needed.

Horticulture - "horde a culture"? Plant/"Nuclear plant" i.e. current events Chalk River whatever applications to nuclear research his own works and sci. around him might have.

OK promise not to overdo this maybe already have.

IIRC, PK said he gave AG a copy of his thesis ("computational acceleration in medical imaging"). IMO, science would certainly have been discussed based on that aspect alone (and also IMO, would have been discussed in more depth than what seems to be non-existant flower beds?)

Okay, here's Snoopster's post re the thesis:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Audrey Gleave, retired teacher, viciously murdered in home, Ancaster Ontario, #2


Given all our sleuthing in Lachlan's case, plagiarism springs to mind.


No, you aren't overdoing it Chorley

 

[Chorley8]

I forget the details right now, but I THINK someone (maybe Jon Wells??) wrote that the A Grace video was indeed the Rieu one.

Question:
What is Holden House?

*I confuse easily*

Sorry No Stone I meant to write Holdman House there is a 21 million hit video techno version of Amazing Grace. It is interesting to me cause of the gaze of the camera on the house which is lit up like a Christmas tree so to speak there is staccato machine gun like "drum" rolls and the house goes quiet and silent and dark at the end.

Thanks for your note would be interesting to find out whether it was really the R version or whether it could be the Holdman House version which would fit the cake/poker idea in my earlier post. Now of course there pretty well has to be some kind of cake if P.K. calls the police.

Here on WS P.K. said in a cute "oh by the way" tone that LE were asking him to recount multiple times on multiple occasions everything he did between the 25th and the day he supposedly found Audrey. Occurs to me that is a good day to begin with to rethink our research because that day Audrey went to LVS for Christmas, and she probably really did since it would be dangerous to lie about that, too many people. I really think everything after that is unknown including the vet visit, the soup visit, cake visit next firm event is the call to the police. And of course somewhere in there Audrey gets murdered ("unconscionably" as one of her close "friends" described it I guess to differentiate it from all of the conscionable homicides).

The email to P.K. telling him she is going to make her coffee klatch come hell or high water could have been sent by anyone ditto the Amazing Grace videos. I would be interested to know if anyone actually spoke to her on the phone. Now she was ill so they might be able to disguise the voice say they are sick very risky though probably didn't happen. P.K. said he found it strange that he didn't receive emails from her last couple of days. Don't remember if he sent her any.

 

[dotr]

http://news.ca.msn.com/ontario/hamilton/audrey’s-case-gets-colder
Hamilton Spec. Jon Wells
"On the morning of Dec. 27, not long before the end of Audrey Gleave's life, the snow-covered ground shimmered in the winter sun.

Audrey was fed up with feeling under the weather. But that morning, instead of a Maxine joke or some techie article, she emailed a music video to a friend.

And that evening she sent it again to another. It was, for her, an unusual selection.

The video she sent was a live performance by the André Rieu Orchestra. Rieu is an acclaimed Dutch violinist, conductor and composer. The performance was described as a Celtic version of the timeless spiritual hymn, Amazing Grace.

VIDEO: André Rieu Amazing Grace





Source: YouTube video posted by testadure

The rendition begins with a single musician playing a pennywhistle. It grows larger, Rieu on his violin, then other sections, including a bagpiper, joining in wave upon wave, until the stirring climax &#8212; the soul-shaking lament of 300 pipers and a choir singing. It brings audience members to tears.

Amazing grace/How sweet the sound

That saved a wretch like me.

I once was lost/But now I'm found

Was blind but now I see.

In the last couple of years, Audrey had talked more about the end of her life. And she had that premonition, long ago, that it would end suddenly and violently.

Being moved by that video, sending it to friends, was it a sign? Did the beautiful mind sense something &#8212; mortality, perhaps &#8212; approaching that bright morning two days after Christmas?

How many times did she replay the song, which is about redemption, about having the soul delivered from despair through the mercy of God?

Audrey Gleave wasn't religious, at least not by appearances. But she asked questions about faith, and was curious about all things. But then no one knew what flowed under the still waters.

The rest of her life numbered mere hours after absorbing the vibrations of that song"

 

[Sillybilly]

Taking NSU's advice here: how do we know that the A Grace video was the Rieu version? Checked by LE? Wondering about the Holden House video that has had a huge number of hits. Sorry if this has already been discussed.

We first heard about the Rieu version from kinsmapj. Here's his post where he linked us to the version:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Audrey Gleave, retired teacher, viciously murdered in home, Ancaster Ontario, #2



Here's Hazel's post quoting kinsmapj's post re the Rieu version, and advising that the vid has been pulled, then provides another source for the same vid:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Audrey Gleave, retired teacher, viciously murdered in home, Ancaster Ontario, #2


I would assume (yeah, i know ) that Jon Wells received his info from PK.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

But didn't the woman who lived across the street from Audrey also receive the e-mail with the Rieu version of 'Amazing Grace'?

Did she confirm this to LE? Or do we merely have PK's word on that one as well?

 

[Sillybilly]

Sorry, can't find the recent post where someone was mentioning/enquiring about the auto related FB account (which led us to the BCM website). FWIW, both a dot com and a dot ca were registered on the same date (Dec 21/10) and both registrations were to PK with the same phone number, but in one his Pearl St, Hamilton addy was used and in the other, the Stoney Creek addy was used (which i recall checking at the time, and that was the addy of AK's mom ST)

http://whois.polodomains.com/domain/L_bIvfC9BL0tBXnors2Q4t5uJSjRIDf5_info.html

http://network-tools.com/default.asp?prog=express&host=badcompanymotors.ca

 

[Sillybilly]

But didn't the woman who lived across the street from Audrey also receive the e-mail with the Rieu version of 'Amazing Grace'?

Did she confirm this to LE? Or do we merely have PK's word on that one as well?

PK told us to the effect that he awoke the morning of the 27th morning and it was in his inbox. We have to conclude therefore that LF was the recipient of the second Amazing Grace email that was sent the night of the 27th.

On another note, and just a tidbit by way of timeline .. PK told us that he spoke with Audrey Christmas Day and that she had stayed home all day. This leads me to believe that he spoke with her Christmas night in order to determine she had been home all day.

 

[Sillybilly]

from:
http://www.thespec.com/news/crime/article/307949--police-investigating-ancaster-area-homicide

But a couple of years ago, after a movie shoot on the street, Gleave asked Linda Ferguson for her e-mail and a copy of the film clip.

Since then, Gleave e-mailed Ferguson occasionally, she said. They were not personal messages, rather jokes, riddles, links.

The last e-mail Linda received from Gleave was Monday night. It was a link to a version of Amazing Grace.

I suppose it's possible that both emails were sent by Audrey at the same time and LF simply didn't check her email until Monday night (LE would have the answer to that though via the email properties). If the email was sent to both recipients at the same time, then the last time anyone knew Audrey to be alive would be when LV brought soup. The fact that LE stated there was no contact since Monday night leads me to believe they are aware that the emails were sent separately.

 

[Chorley8]

PK told us to the effect that he awoke the morning of the 27th morning and it was in his inbox. We have to conclude therefore that LF was the recipient of the second Amazing Grace email that was sent the night of the 27th.

On another note, and just a tidbit by way of timeline .. PK told us that he spoke with Audrey Christmas Day and that she had stayed home all day. This leads me to believe that he spoke with her Christmas night in order to determine she had been home all day.

I read somewhere she spent Christmas with LVS though not feeling well? Not true?

 

[roseofsharon]

First we hear that AG would not want to spread germs, but she went to LV's on Boxing Day and apparently was feeling under the weather on Christmas Day, but still went out and then the morning of the 27th, the same morning she received the soup from LV, she visited the vet to pick up vitamans for her dogs.

Wondering if LV had family members, as well as AG on Boxing Day for supper or was it just LV and AG. Either way, if AG wasn't feeling well, she did go to LV's.

Feeling bad for LV, as she lost her own mom unexpectedly in the summer of 2010, then one of her best friends (AG) unexpectedly in December 2010.

How well did LV family members know AG.

Shifting thoughts, I wonder if the farmers in the area, hire temporary staff and do some of these workers ever stay over the winter months to work inside the barns. There is a farmer's type market not far from AG's home.

Riding bikes appears to be popular in the area. Whenever I am in the area, I always see bike riders.

Interesting that AG would be so particular about other people's cooking, as she liked the heat and serve dishes apparently. Doesn't make sense.

Just some random thoughts and IMO. Happy to see this forum getting busy again, as we near the two year anniversary of the murder of AG.

What do LE have ... we have heard nothing for so long.

IMO

 

[Sillybilly]

I read somewhere she spent Christmas with LVS though not feeling well? Not true?

I think someone did just incorrectly post that it was Christmas Day, but she in fact went to LVs on Boxing Day.

 

[Sillybilly]

Was wondering about the vet's office being open on the 27th as that day, a Monday, would have been in lieu of Boxing Day falling on a Sunday. Then I came across this (which I may have read before but it didn't sink in):

from:
http://www.hamiltonnews.com/news/lynden-honours-audrey-gleave/

Veterinarian Dudley Collins cared for Gleave&#8217;s pets for over 30 years. Just days before her death, Gleave visited Collins&#8217; home to pick up some medications for her two German Shepherd dogs, Togi and Schatzen.

&#8220;They were her life, those dogs,&#8221; said Collins.

Collins, who retired as a vet from Mountain Animal Hospital in 1994, is also the founder of the Ancaster Pet Cemetery on Book Road West.

Gleave had three or four pets buried at the cemetery and often visited the site to pay her respects.

&#8220;She was just an all-around good friend,&#8221; said Collins. &#8220;I never heard her say a bad word about anyone.&#8221;

So, according to the above, she visited the vet's home (thus effectively eliminating any suspicions we might have wrt staff or clients), so he would have been the last person to see AG alive that afternoon, OR IF LV delivered the soup later in the day, then she would have been the last person to see AG ... and in a closer timeframe to the curious second emailing of the Amazing Grace video.

 

[Chorley8]

First we hear that AG would not want to spread germs, but she went to LV's on Boxing Day and apparently was feeling under the weather on Christmas Day, but still went out and then the morning of the 27th, the same morning she received the soup from LV, she visited the vet to pick up vitamans for her dogs.

Wondering if LV had family members, as well as AG on Boxing Day for supper or was it just LV and AG. Either way, if AG wasn't feeling well, she did go to LV's.

Feeling bad for LV, as she lost her own mom unexpectedly in the summer of 2010, then one of her best friends (AG) unexpectedly in December 2010.

How well did LV family members know AG.

Shifting thoughts, I wonder if the farmers in the area, hire temporary staff and do some of these workers ever stay over the winter months to work inside the barns. There is a farmer's type market not far from AG's home.

Riding bikes appears to be popular in the area. Whenever I am in the area, I always see bike riders.

Interesting that AG would be so particular about other people's cooking, as she liked the heat and serve dishes apparently. Doesn't make sense.

Just some random thoughts and IMO. Happy to see this forum getting busy again, as we near the two year anniversary of the murder of AG.

What do LE have ... we have heard nothing for so long.

IMO

Several interesting comments here but just one question for now: so there is a discrepancy (?) between P.K. saying he spoke to Audrey Christmas (presumably in the evening) and she had stayed home all day - and L.V.S. saying she was over for Christmas. I hope LE ascertained whether, assuming she was at L.'s there were others there to confirm. I hear what you are saying about her losing her Mom but I think the only way to go at this is not to trust anyone involved until they have clear clear alibis. After all anyone finding the body or being both the executor and sole beneficiary of the will of a murdered person has to expect questions however unlucky for them. So you bring up a good point and I was assuming that it was a largish Christmas party and there were witnesses I mean guests. But it is possible yes it was just L and A or them and a very few others this is important to know we need to know the last time Audrey was seen alive and NOT by any of these principles including vet and friends. Even at the coffee klatch I would want evidence from the staff not the participants.

So I am going to say for the moment the last certain sighting of Audrey that I am willing to accept is at the coffee klatch the PREVIOUS Wednesday (maybe but I need even that confirmed).

I am not trusting for now (I mean 100%) any of the later "sightings" or any of the emails which could have been sent by someone else in Audrey's house until confirmed. Because I believe there is a chance she was being confined in her own house. I realize someone should have seen her incidentally in one of the towns she frequented whether Hamilton, Dundas, Ancaster, Brantford say stopping for gas or stopping at a shop.

But I don't think we know of any examples like this and it is potentially interesting. Often in the case of homicides they will interview incidental people who saw her pop into their store etc. Here it is always these same few figures I think that is what is unsettling various sleuthers here it has a strange quality as a result, sort of like a "play" and one with only a few characters, a Greek play.

Want to point out two more things: it is A's brother in law who is the source for 1. the story of A's premonitions about murder and 2. the story about the student at Westdale who wanted to kill A years ago. Both violent stories.

Also P.K. (and I agree with No Stone whether it is him or not we have to take with a grain of salt but I don't think we should ignore yet) said in the last year A had been talking more about her final plans for after her death also they had begun cleaning out the house beforehand which she rarely did. And yet it would be almost impossible to have simpler final plans giving everything to LVS and even if she died (the really strange part) her husband.

Possibility she was talked into this cleaning project because someone was trying to get a sense of where she kept stuff.

So what was Audrey talking about with P.K. concerning the time after her death: that her beloved dogs would be put up for adoption and put down if not adopted? (it almost happened). That she was going to leave this promising young man P.K. recently married nothing and leave nothing to science Humane Society or e.g. school book prizes or to her various friends BUT she was going to give everything to someone she never let into her house, and if she died first the even more distant husband? That she hoped someone down the road would buy and quickly bulldoze her beloved house a couple of weeks after her death? (After all she could have died of a heart attack or stroke or accident the murder supposedly changed nothing concerning the will.)

Or did it?

 

[Chorley8]

Was wondering about the vet's office being open on the 27th as that day, a Monday, would have been in lieu of Boxing Day falling on a Sunday. Then I came across this (which I may have read before but it didn't sink in):

from:
http://www.hamiltonnews.com/news/lynden-honours-audrey-gleave/



So, according to the above, she visited the vet's home (thus effectively eliminating any suspicions we might have wrt staff or clients), so he would have been the last person to see AG alive that afternoon, OR IF LV delivered the soup later in the day, then she would have been the last person to see AG ... and in a closer time-frame to the curious second emailing of the Amazing Grace video.

As per my last post just his, the vet's home, again an interesting lack of incidental witnesses.

 

[Chorley8]

I think someone did just incorrectly post that it was Christmas Day, but she in fact went to LVs on Boxing Day.

OK just caught up to your post here thank you.

 

[Chorley8]

1. House was sold astonishingly fast not sure how that was possible have to look at the will again but have had some provision for executor to make intermediate decisions etc.
2. It is a large sum to pay for a lot I think. They tore the house down as I understand it.

3. I believe I read reports of someone singular or plural working hard and fast in the house organizing things. Why weren't they worried that the deranged killer LE had hypothesized would come back?

4. Parents down the road bought for their (I guess grown up) kids. Killer not caught yet. Aren't worried about a repeat event?

5. Was a real estate agent used on either or both sides?

6. Can anyone think why the house would NEED to be torn down? (I mean if there was any culpability in the neighbourhood). Still looking for something? Covering evidence? Nothing really makes sense to me. But why pay this much for a lot there are large farms there I am sure you could get a better price a farmer could sell you small part of his land. Why would you buy a murder house for your kids beside a cemetery I imagine they would want to raise their kids there etc.

7. Is there a reason nobody is afraid?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Questions/Comments for Chorley:

- What house was torn down? :what:

- As I understand it, a young (????) couple bought the house and is living in it now.

- Yes, LV had to clean the house out after AG's murder.

- I'm very confused about "tearing the house down".

- I'm not afraid because LE said that AG knew her killer and that it's someone young and close. I don't think there's a mad killer out there running around on the loose. I DO, however, think that the AG, SV and SL killings/attack are linked to the same person.

:moo:

 

[Chorley8]

Questions/Comments for Chorley:

- What house was torn down? :what:

- As I understand it, a young (????) couple bought the house and is living in it now.

- Yes, LV had to clean the house out after AG's murder.

- I'm very confused about "tearing the house down".

- I'm not afraid because LE said that AG knew her killer and that it's someone young and close. I don't think there's a mad killer out there running around on the loose. I DO, however, think that the AG, SV and SL killings/attack are linked to the same person.

:moo:[/Q

OK I will check the source of house being torn down of course could be wrong. If you know it is wrong that is good.

Because yes I was confused by the news it had been torn own read it though. I also read children of someone down the road, yes I assumed a young couple, not sure.