CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #6

[Sillybilly]

On a different note, we've discussed the "forensic evidence" that appears to have sprung DLS, and we've considered how that same evidence could include/exclude PK. I think i've figured something out in that regard.

Forensic testing of the knife produced no evidence that it was used in this crime. Because that specific weapon relates solely to DLS, it could not serve to include/exclude PK.

 

[Sillybilly]

I guess it's possible the company could simply be stick-handling the demolition and rebuilding for the 2011 purchasers, and LV put them in touch with her neighbour.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

On a different note, we've discussed the "forensic evidence" that appears to have sprung DLS, and we've considered how that same evidence could include/exclude PK. I think i've figured something out in that regard.

Forensic testing of the knife produced no evidence that it was used in this crime. Because that specific weapon relates solely to DLS, it could not serve to include/exclude PK.

I wonder if Audrey had a block of knives. It was posted here long ago that Audrey loved cooking. (Wasn't it?)

It seems to me that the knife/instrument which was used to kill Audrey has NOT been located. Hence, no one has been charged - "suspect" yes, but as of now, not charged.

 

[Hazel]

** unrelated ** breaking news **

Ottawa police arrests man in connection with the deaths of 39-year-old Pamela Kosmack, and 23-year-old Leanne Lawson


CANADA Possible SK targetting sex trade workers in Ottawa, Ontario

 

[Sillybilly]

I wonder if Audrey had a block of knives. It was posted here long ago that Audrey loved cooking. (Wasn't it?)

It seems to me that the knife/instrument which was used to kill Audrey has NOT been located. Hence, no one has been charged - "suspect" yes, but as of now, not charged.

Yes, foodie that she was, that is a fairly routine kitchen item that might be found on a kitchen counter where Audrey's purse was supposedly left.

This will prolly sound totally out in left field right now (but i has my thought processes, whether they are reasonable remains to be seen ).

We're aware a knife was used and there was another weapon. I could be wrong, but i think we've assumed that whatever that other weapon was, it could relate to the "sexual component". Is it possible that the attack/sexual aspect/trophy were all caused by a knife, but that a gun was used at some point to either subdue her initially or to ensure that she was dead?

Did LE search the ponds on the property, or were they frozen over at the time of the killing?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

This ties in with SB's comments about another weapon:

I have a block of knives on my kitchen counter BUT it also contains two long-handled forks for roasts. I use them when I roast beef or pork. The forks are great for holding down the roast while slicing it with one of the knives.

Would forks and knives be considered different weapons even if they came from the same wooden holder?

And the 'sexual component' has me completely befuzzled!! :what:

For a reason which I cannot explain, I don't see a gun used in this crime. Guns seem less personal and less passionate. I feel that Audrey's killer was personal to her and (in some manner) passionate about killing her.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

From sillybilly's post:

<<< Did LE search the ponds on the property, or were they frozen over at the time of the killing? >>>


Something tells me that I saw on TV LE in hip-waders with dogs and horses scouring the property.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

** unrelated ** breaking news **

Ottawa police arrests man in connection with the deaths of 39-year-old Pamela Kosmack, and 23-year-old Leanne Lawson


CANADA Possible SK targetting sex trade workers in Ottawa, Ontario

In my humble opinion, Audrey's killing is FAR removed from the sex trade industry. Of course, I could be terribly wrong here.:blushing:

I feel this is totally unrelated to the topic of the murder of Audrey Gleave. :twocents: <modsnip>

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

On topic question:

- when you WSers look around your kitchen, does any object spring to mind as the murder weapon(s)?

- I also have a 'meat tenderiser' - a hammer-like object to flatten/soften meat (could one of those been used?)

- how about a heavy (maybe marble?) rolling pin or even wooden?

- I keep medications in a kitchen cabinet - IF Audrey had meds could someone known to her have used the meds to subdue her?

- how about heavy Pyrex pans to subdue her?

- was there any evidence of Audrey having been tied to a kitchen chair/table?

- what about an electric carving knife? (apologies for the image this raises)

I'm fixated on the kitchen (interior of the house) because the white car was pristine. That really bothers me!

When entering the house from the garage, do we know what room one enters immediately?

 

[roseofsharon]

On topic question:

- when you WSers look around your kitchen, does any object spring to mind as the murder weapon(s)?

- I also have a 'meat tenderiser' - a hammer-like object to flatten/soften meat (could one of those been used?)

- how about a heavy (maybe marble?) rolling pin or even wooden?

- I keep medications in a kitchen cabinet - IF Audrey had meds could someone known to her have used the meds to subdue her?

- how about heavy Pyrex pans to subdue her?

- was there any evidence of Audrey having been tied to a kitchen chair/table?

- what about an electric carving knife? (apologies for the image this raises)

I'm fixated on the kitchen (interior of the house) because the white car was pristine. That really bothers me!

When entering the house from the garage, do we know what room one enters immediately?

My meat thermometer has a very sharp point and then there are kitchen scissors.

Regarding the sexual component, I am baffled. When PK saw A, her stretchy pants were ripped, but her pants were still on.

If the trophy was taken from the waist down, what kind of killer redresses the victim. I just can't see a killer taking the time to pull everything back up to the waist. The trophy could have been taken from the waist up.

Were A's pants ripped by a weapon? It would take a lot of strength to rip a pair of stretchy pants. You would need to snip them with scissors first and then rip, imo.

I think the sexual component was staged to lead LE in that direction.

I am just guessing Stone, but I think you would enter the kitchen from the garage.

imo

 

[colette]

Since the code wasn't required to close the garage from the inside the killer could have pressed the button and run outside before the door closes completely. This is easily done as I have done it many times myself, and my button was on the far wall away from the garage door.

 

[Woodland]

<rsbm>

Just entertaining some curiosity, I found the following:

CITY OF HAMILTON SUBMISSION TO STATISTICS CANADA - SECTION A
"Major Construction Projects" (Residential: $50,000 or greater, Non-Residential: $250,000 or greater)
Permits Issued From April 1, 2012 to April 30, 2012

http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres...7-09C56D3EA967/78355/Apr12StatsCanRevised.pdf

Check out Item 5.

The above has been one of my favorite posts - wondering why there's no name to go with the address that's so close to AG's former home. The City must be aware of who it is - why leave out the name?

Whoever it is, is accepting responsibility for a big project - construction that meets code, inspections at key intervals, liability insurance of likely $1M and expertise to build a house that stays upright. Permits of that size for that purpose aren't handed out to just anybody.

Thinking out loud - weren't all/most of the neighbors aware DLS was living in a barn close by?

 

[Woodland]

Wonder how long it took this killer to look around and figure out how to close the garage door.

 

[colette]

Wonder how long it took this killer to look around and figure out how to close the garage door.

Usually they are in plain sight near the walk in entrance door to the home.

 

[Sillybilly]

The above has been one of my favorite posts - wondering why there's no name to go with the address that's so close to AG's former home. The City must be aware of who it is - why leave out the name?

Whoever it is, is accepting responsibility for a big project - construction that meets code, inspections at key intervals, liability insurance of likely $1M and expertise to build a house that stays upright. Permits of that size for that purpose aren't handed out to just anybody.

Thinking out loud - weren't all/most of the neighbors aware DLS was living in a barn close by?

I see a few of them don't have names, but not that many. Yes, one would think they would be proud to have their name attached to any project. Further down on that same report, there was $20,000 for the demo, and there is one other report from Feb 2012 that shows $15,000 for the septic. Other than that, when I do a site search at the City of Hamilton website, there are no other references to that Powerline Rd addy.

The barn that DLS lived in was at Lynden and Garden Av, closer to Brantford than to AG's neighbourhood. I know it's been said that DLS rode his bike east on Indian Trail, but have to question who provided that tidbit.

DLS was arrested on the weapons charge in Brantford, he was arrested on the murder charge at a laundromat in Brantford. Seemed more likely that Brantford was his 'hood, and IMO he would be much more familiar to folks who live there.

 

[Sillybilly]

If the trophy was taken from the waist down, what kind of killer redresses the victim. I just can't see a killer taking the time to pull everything back up to the waist. The trophy could have been taken from the waist up.
....

I think the sexual component was staged to lead LE in that direction.

I am just guessing Stone, but I think you would enter the kitchen from the garage.

imo

<rsbm>

But she was also wearing her winter coat? Obviously there is a holdback on whatever body part might be involved.

ITA re the staging.

IIRC, PK did say that the door from the garage led into the kitchen.

 

[roseofsharon]

LE said A had been beaten and stabbed. If there was bruising, I wonder where it was on her body.

LE has never released details regarding the beating, i.e. punch, kick, implement used.

Was A trying to escape from her home?

When PK opened the garage door, were A's feet pointing toward her garage door or towards her home.

What side of A's car was she found on.

 

[Hazel]

Since the code wasn't required to close the garage from the inside the killer could have pressed the button and run outside before the door closes completely. This is easily done as I have done it many times myself, and my button was on the far wall away from the garage door.

If PK had to punch in the code in order to open the garage door, that tells me the keypad was mounted outside the garage door.

I am borrowing these two posts of Otto's from another thread. He explains it better than I could ever do (as you know, English is not my language)

I myself have two keypads with a code for both garage and front door, but to close we only press the lock button. No need to run under a closing door, and anyone can close the door from the outside. (All just :moo: )
Again, PK said: ".... I can say that the code was not required to close the door ...." ( link )

I can answer the keypad question, as I have one on both the garage, and the front, door. To open the door, the correct code must be used, but one "lock" button is pressed to close the door ... so anyone can close it.

My neighbour across the street also has a keycode on her garage door and I've gone over to close the overhead door in the past because she has mistakenly left it open overnight. Sometimes people accidentally leave the garage door open, often making it easy to gain access to the house via the "people" door between the house and the garage.

I would be surprised if residences had keypads that required a code to lock ... maybe commercial businesses need that, but what would be the purpose of needing a code to lock a keypad lock on the garage or the front door? It would take extra time to enter the code to lock your own door ... time that no one wants to lose and defeating the convenience of a keypad. Besides, if you screw up the code 3 times, the lock beeps really loud and there's a delay before it can be attempted again. Imagine heading out the door to work and having to stand at the door waiting for the door to quit beeping in order to enter the code again.

 

[Hazel]

<rsbm>

But she was also wearing her winter coat? Obviously there is a holdback on whatever body part might be involved.

ITA re the staging.

IIRC, PK did say that the door from the garage led into the kitchen.

ITA agree with the staging.

Regarding the door that connected to the house, I checked all of PK's posts that we have access to at the moment, and he didn't specify which room, though IMO, it is usually the kitchen.
PK said: "....- The garage was connected to the house by a door." ( link )

Wish PK could make us a drawing showing the floor plan of Audrey's house, where the door was located, which room it connected to, where was the kitchen, computer area, etc. Now that the house no longer exists, I guess it wont be a breach of privacy issues?

 

[Hazel]

LE said A had been beaten and stabbed. If there was bruising, I wonder where it was on her body.

LE has never released details regarding the beating, i.e. punch, kick, implement used.

Was A trying to escape from her home?

When PK opened the garage door, were A's feet pointing toward her garage door or towards her home.

What side of A's car was she found on.

Good questions rose. I was tempted to ask PK to also indicate in the drawing the area where Audrey's body was found, proximity to the Camaro, position of body, etc., but I guess that is part of the investigation, and I assume LE has asked PK not to comment on that.

As for beating, I recall a video where someone mentions (LE or reporter?) something along the lines of "the body suffered significant trauma"

Judging from the video where the car is being towed, seems to me there was not much space between the driver's side and the wall. For that reason, it never struck me as odd that the side we see of the car looks clean. Just my opinion, for what it's worth :twocents: