CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #6

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Oh man, if this thing goes back to DLS I will completely give up on the Criminal Justice System! :bang: Wasn't he in and out of jail at the time when Audrey was murdered?

So, what did he do?

- leave jail
- kill Audrey
- get seen at the bank with a knife
- go back to jail
- not be convicted

This is far too much of a rigamarole to make sense. Did he take the killing weapon to the bank? And most of all we need to know the person who named DLS to LE in the first place. In my own very humble opinion, I think that was the real killer. DLS is such an easy fall-guy.

:bang:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

From GT:

<<< I base it in part on a very unofficial remark I heard shortly after DLS's release - from someone connected to LE - which indicated that he was still a POI after the charges were dropped, that the dropping of the charges was due to insufficient evidence to convict, not that they lost interest in him. >>>

Loose lips sink cases. Again, in my very humble opinion, this is unprofessional on the part of the "someone connected to LE".

:bang:

 

[greenthumb]

From GT:

<<< I base it in part on a very unofficial remark I heard shortly after DLS's release - from someone connected to LE - which indicated that he was still a POI after the charges were dropped, that the dropping of the charges was due to insufficient evidence to convict, not that they lost interest in him. >>>

Loose lips sink cases. Again, in my very humble opinion, this is unprofessional on the part of the "someone connected to LE".

:bang:

It was not a case of 'loose lips' - it was not from someone involved in this case, it was someone familiar with how LE may conduct an investigation - it was more a matter of pointing out to me that I should read what was actually said by LE, as quoted in MSM. It had, in fact, already been said by LE (Hamilton Police Inspector Stewart) in MSM - as shown in my post above - LE was 'not confirming' if DLS remained a suspect - therefore, IMO, they were not saying he was no longer a POI.

He couldn&#8217;t confirm if Scott, who was released from custody, remains a suspect.&#8220;It&#8217;s an open case,&#8221; Stewart said. &#8220;The investigators before and after the arrest were still pursuing other evidence that came forward and we sill continue to review, assess and investigate anything we have and anything else that comes forward.&#8221;

It is simply that many equated the dropping of charges against DLS as a declaration of his innocence... when really, those are not the same thing... kwim?

To my knowledge, LE has not publicly ruled out anyone as a POI at this point, have they? I think we should be glad of that - I hope that they are pursuing all leads, open to all information, and following evidence where it leads them. That is their job. If there was evidence that led them toward DLS other than the forensics (which I presume there would have been), then what would they do with that? Just drop it? I hope they would go back and re-examine it, as well as pursue any and all other possible leads.

A lot of time has passed, and perhaps further investigation has resulted in DLS no longer being a POI, I don't know... just saying, if we have not been told he is not, then we don't know.

 

[greenthumb]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6002779&postcount=142

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6002837&postcount=143

Linking to Hazel's posts with photos of the house from Thread 1.

I am wondering what room the door from the garage connected to in the house... the area adjacent to the garage shares its roofline with the garage and is narrower than the main part of the home. There is a door from the rear (I presume the rear - the opposite side from the overhead garage doors) into it, and there is a small, high window on that side.

On the front side, next to the overhead garage doors, there is a single bigger window.

The area seems to be narrower in width than the garage.

I am wondering if this might be a mudroom/utility room/ entry area rather than the kitchen. Any thoughts on this? Has anyone confirmed what room the garage door went into?

I am speculating if this was a utility area, it may be a place that AG might confine the dogs?

So a visitor/intruder might be able to access the house (via front door) and the garage, and still avoid contact with the dogs, if they were confined in this area, possibly?

These photos do confirm that the entry from the garage into the house must have been along the side wall of the garage, not at the rear.

All MOO.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Something tells me that we were told the garage has a door into the house. The room that door leads to is the kitchen. I think......:blushing:

:twocents:

 

[greenthumb]

Something tells me that we were told the garage has a door into the house. The room that door leads to is the kitchen. I think......:blushing:

:twocents:

Yes, I think so too, that there would be a door from garage into house... I just had wondered at one time if that door was along the side or rear of the garage. And it goes into the kitchen? Thank you!

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I wonder where Audrey's telephones were. Often, there's a phone in the kitchen. If she was stabbed in the kitchen, I wonder how close she got to the phone in order to make a 911 call.

Or, did the killer make certain that she was unable to grab the phone?

And why did she end up in the garage?

 

[Sillybilly]

I wonder where Audrey's telephones were. Often, there's a phone in the kitchen. If she was stabbed in the kitchen, I wonder how close she got to the phone in order to make a 911 call.

Or, did the killer make certain that she was unable to grab the phone?

And why did she end up in the garage?

We don't even know whether the phone lines were cut or not.

Speaking of phones, PK said "no way" did Audrey own a cell phone. Almost unusual for a senior who had expressed concerns for her personal safety.

I wonder what cell reception is like out that way. Must have been okay, as presumably PK called 911 on a cell.

 

[roseofsharon]

If PK ever returns to the forum, I would like to know if he could hear A's dog's barking when the garage door was opening or had they been drugged by the perp to stop the barking.

I don't think PK mentioned hearing A's dogs barking when he arrived. Would the barking be audible inside the house with the doors and windows closed.

I would think A's dogs would have been quite snarly by the time PK arrived, having been in their crates, no doubt, for quite some time.

IMO

 

[2soccermom]

That's a great question, ROS!

About the dogs being crated in the first place: it would be useful to know if it was Audrey's habit to crate the dogs at bedtime. I know that some small dogs find their crates a comfort rather than an imprisonment and so are crated not just for travel but also for sleep. They are, apparently, less likely to whine and to sleep longer/later when crated, which is interesting if Audrey was a late night owl (and not likely wanting to be awakened too early). I'm not sure if this is the same for bigger dogs like Audrey's. She seemed to love her dogs AND use them for protection, so it's hard to know if she would crate them at night or not. If we could have that info, it would help, if only somewhat, with the timeline. It would also offer a different explanation for the several speculations that the dogs were crated because she was expecting someone (although these don`t have to be mutually exclusive ideas) -- in one scenario, at least, she could have crated the dogs, then gone to the garage for a smoke before bed and was surprised there. IMO.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

We don't even know whether the phone lines were cut or not.

Speaking of phones, PK said "no way" did Audrey own a cell phone. Almost unusual for a senior who had expressed concerns for her personal safety.

I wonder what cell reception is like out that way. Must have been okay, as presumably PK called 911 on a cell.

Hi SB!

I think cell phone transmission would be fine in Audrey's area. It's fairly close to Hamilton, Burlington, Oakville......all large centres.

As for a senior living alone and driving a big Camaro - perhaps Audrey didn't drive far enough to warrant having a cell phone. Maybe she felt very comfortable in her area so IF her car broke down, she'd feel safe in going to someone's house to ask to use the phone for help.

I have to admit - I only have a cell phone for trips in my car alone in case of accident/car trouble. I have GM almost on speed-dial!:floorlaugh:

For me, I don't find it odd that Audrey didn't have a cell phone.

And back to your point of the phone lines in Audrey's house being cut - I hadn't thought of that. Would PK have noticed if the lines were cut?

:twocents:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

If PK ever returns to the forum, I would like to know if he could hear A's dog's barking when the garage door was opening or had they been drugged by the perp to stop the barking.

I don't think PK mentioned hearing A's dogs barking when he arrived. Would the barking be audible inside the house with the doors and windows closed.

I would think A's dogs would have been quite snarly by the time PK arrived, having been in their crates, no doubt, for quite some time.

IMO

Good point! I don't think PK ever said anything about the dogs barking......and you'd think he would have said! It would have hit him as he opened the garage door. LE didn't say anything either, did they?

Now you've got me thinking......after LE and all the 911 people arrived, did PK ask someone to check on Audrey's beloved dogs? For food, water, etc.

Hmmmm...............

 

[roseofsharon]

NSU, you've got me thinking too ... I wonder if A had CAA and if she ever had to use this service?

If your battery needed a boost, I think CAA would come to your home, not sure about this though.

Also, do we know when A purchased her Camaro and what car did she drive before she bought the Camaro and did she trade that car in for the Camaro and which dealership did she purchase the Camaro from.

When A purchased her car, did she provide her name, address, phone number. If she wrote a cheque, this personal information may have been at the top of the cheque. Can't imagine A paying cash for her car.

IMO

 

[Sillybilly]

NSU, you've got me thinking too ... I wonder if A had CAA and if she ever had to use this service?

If your battery needed a boost, I think CAA would come to your home, not sure about this though.

Also, do we know when A purchased her Camaro and what car did she drive before she bought the Camaro and did she trade that car in for the Camaro and which dealership did she purchase the Camaro from.

When A purchased her car, did she provide her name, address, phone number. If she wrote a cheque, this personal information may have been at the top of the cheque. Can't imagine A paying cash for her car.

IMO

I have had CAA in both Ontario and BC (BCAA ,div of CAA), and yes, they will come to your home for a battery charge, basically anything they can do from the truck that will get you going. If they can't get the car going, they will tow it to the garage.

IIRC, her Camaro came off the line in the Spring of 2009, but we don't know when she actually purchased it. As for what specific car she had before that, i don't think we know for certain, but some friend/associate was quoted somewhere as saying to the effect that she "loved her Camaros".

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

ROS - I don't have CAA but I do have the GM 'help people' (I can't think of what it's called now and I'm too lazy to get up and look in my purse!!). The GM help thing works like CAA in that they'll come to anywhere to pick up the car and drive it to the dealership of your choice to be fixed.

Praise God, I've only needed that service once but it was a blessing.

Audrey could easily have had the GM service thing that I have.

I also would love to know where Audrey purchased her car. Which dealership. I do know that her model of Camaros was only available in small quantities in dealerships. Dealerships only received a FEW of these cars when they rolled off the assembly line.

Another question - was Audrey's car 'off the assembly line' or did she have it custom-made like I do with my 'Vettes? Either way, there has to be a dealership involved!!

:twocents:

 

[LeftCoaster]

IIRC, her Camaro came off the line in the Spring of 2009, but we don't know when she actually purchased it. As for what specific car she had before that, i don't think we know for certain, but some friend/associate was quoted somewhere as saying to the effect that she "loved her Camaros".

<rsbm; rbbm>

SB, there have been references on the FB memorial page and elsewhere (pretty sure Wells in conversation with one of the former students) to Audrey's having driven a Land Rover shipped especially from England at some point. Also think someone said something about an older Camaro, too. Will take a look as soon as I can.

NSU

ROS - I don't have CAA but I do have the GM 'help people' (I can't think of what it's called now and I'm too lazy to get up and look in my purse!!). The GM help thing works like CAA in that they'll come to anywhere to pick up the car and drive it to the dealership of your choice to be fixed.

The GM service is called OnStar...it was very popular about 10 years ago, before personal GPS became the norm. Still a good service, if a touch on the pricey side. Quite possibly it would have come with Audrey's Camaro.

HTH

:seeya:

 

[Sillybilly]

<rsbm; rbbm>

SB, there have been references on the FB memorial page and elsewhere (pretty sure Wells in conversation with one of the former students) to Audrey's having driven a Land Rover shipped especially from England at some point. Also think someone said something about an older Camaro, too. Will take a look as soon as I can.

You and others may recall the articles that said Allan G took the Land Rover with him after he and Audrey split and he went to Sturgeon Falls.

Googling "audrey gleave" "land rover" now, there are no articles or references to it coming up other than here and the unsolved site. I'm really starting to dislike google.

ETA: Here's one old reference from dotr's post:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Audrey Gleave, retired teacher, viciously murdered in home, Ancaster Ontario

another from Hazel's post:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Audrey Gleave, retired teacher, viciously murdered in home, Ancaster Ontario, #3


Arghhh ... don't know why these old articles aren't coming up in google searches, but here's the link that was in the above posts:

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/594717--audrey-s-story-continues

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

From LeftCoaster:

<<< The GM service is called OnStar...it was very popular about 10 years ago, before personal GPS became the norm. Still a good service, if a touch on the pricey side. Quite possibly it would have come with Audrey's Camaro. >>>



1. Yes, I have On Star but I was referring to GM Auto-Shield. That's a place you phone from anywhere to have GM guys come to pick up a disabled GM vehicle.

2. I asked PK way back if Audrey had On Star and he said "NO!".

:twocents:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

This has been driving me crazy - Contradiction:

I asked PK if Audrey's car had On Star because I was certain all 2010 Camaros had it as standard equipment. Sooooooooo, I just looked it up:

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/03/2010-chevy-camaro-standard-and-optional-equipment-list-revealed/


<<< The base model LS comes equipped with OnStar, 18-inch rims, and a 300-hp V6 engine, and the only optional item is floor mats

Sooooo, if the base model comes equipped with On Star, I'd assume all models have it as well.

Interesting..........

 

[Sillybilly]

2. I asked PK way back if Audrey had On Star and he said "NO!".

He wasn't that definitive .. he said he didn't "think" she had OnStar:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Audrey Gleave, retired teacher, viciously murdered in home, Ancaster Ontario, #2