CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #6

[roseofsharon]

You got that right!! I don't want a 20-year-old male seeing my face creme for "mature skin" and my arthritis and blood pressure meds! Geez. :floorlaugh:

OM goodness, :blushing:, me too ... I wouldn't want some 20 year old to see my face and everything you mentioned Stone, especially my nightguard that protects my teeth, while I grind in my sleep! :blushing: - :floorlaugh:

 

[LeftCoaster]

AG wanted PK to have the code, but really wonder why LV, her friend of three decades, was not given the code. imo

Do we have any definite information that LV didn't, in fact, have the code, even on an "only to be used in an emergency" basis? Seems PK believed he was the only one with whom it had been shared. Like so many other details (provided and missing alike) of this case, Audrey's zeal for privacy clouds just who knew whom, knew what.

Agree with NSU et al that I'd prefer a peer to make the discovery that I'd shuffled off the old mortal coil... At the same time, much as any of us would like to dictate the circumstances of our demise, we exceedingly rarely have that option short of taking matters into our own hands. Unless Audrey did somehow set up her handyman/protégé, I wonder if it really occurred to her that anyone other than a neighbour / LE / or LV would discover her in the event of her death?

:fish: :fish: With everything about this getting fishier and fishier, and no idea of the progress please: please let there be actual progress) of the investigation, it's easy to circle around and around our personal theories, and only an arrest will prove or disprove them. Just my :twocents:

 

[colette]

Giving PK her code probably was a practical matter, does not mean he would clean out her undie drawer at time of death. Her friend that handled the estate could take care of that. As Leftcoaster said we don't know if LV had the code.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

But WHY did PK tell us that he and only he knew the code? Also, the code was something (a word???) that was a secret between himself and Audrey.

:twocents:

-------------------------

ETA:

What about KEYS to the house? Maybe LV and/or other friends had a key to enter in case of emergency!!

 

[greenthumb]

But WHY did PK tell us that he and only he knew the code? Also, the code was something (a word???) that was a secret between himself and Audrey.

:twocents:

-------------------------

ETA:

What about KEYS to the house? Maybe LV and/or other friends had a key to enter in case of emergency!!

PK may have told us that because that is what AG told him at the time she gave it to him... and she would not necessarily tell anyone else the code, because no one else needed access to her garage, whereas the handyman did. If at some point later, AG did give her garage code to a friend or someone else, she would not even think to tell PK that she had - why would she? He may have felt quite honoured that AG, being so private and guarded, trusted him enough to give him that code.
As far as AG preferring that someone other than her young handyman go through her things after her death - I doubt that she was thinking about her death at all when she gave him the code! As I believe PK said, she told him he should have the code in case he came to work there some time when she was not home. Seems logical to me - he's there to do work, needs access to tools etc in garage, she trusts him, therefore she tells him how to get into the garage.
I gave a young neighbour, a high school girl, a key to our house so she could have access while we were on vacations, etc. - she comes in to feed kitty and keep an eye on things. She keeps that key at her family's home, in case at any point, they need to get in for some reason. I did not give any of my contemporaries a key to my house - they don't need it, but she does. That does not mean that I expect her to be the one to deal with my things when I pass away.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

But hadn't Audrey been thinking of being 'raped and killed' as she told her BIL?

 

[greenthumb]

But hadn't Audrey been thinking of being 'raped and killed' as she told her BIL?

I don't think I understand how your question connects to the discussion about PK knowing the garage code? Or did you mean it to?

Since you mention it, though - do we know when AG said that to her BIL? I assumed it was years ago when she was married to or shortly after being married to his brother? When she may have still had regular contact with him? Has there been any timeline attached to that statement by the BIL?

I have always wondered if AG actually had a 'serious' concern about being raped & killed, or if that was just an offhand remark made in conversation about her living there alone... and if it only took on significance because of the manner of her death. If she was going to talk to anyone about a real concern/fear, why would she pick her former BIL? Why not a close friend? And if she had expressed a real concern, why did he not follow up on that, check on her, etc? Those questions lead me to believe it was just a remark, maybe even a bitter remark like 'yeah, so now your brother has abandoned me here out in the middle of nowhere and I'll likely end up raped and murdered'.

In any case, can you help me to see the link between PK having the code and what her BIL says was her concern about being raped and killed?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I don't think I understand how your question connects to the discussion about PK knowing the garage code? Or did you mean it to?

Since you mention it, though - do we know when AG said that to her BIL? I assumed it was years ago when she was married to or shortly after being married to his brother? When she may have still had regular contact with him? Has there been any timeline attached to that statement by the BIL?

I have always wondered if AG actually had a 'serious' concern about being raped & killed, or if that was just an offhand remark made in conversation about her living there alone... and if it only took on significance because of the manner of her death. If she was going to talk to anyone about a real concern/fear, why would she pick her former BIL? Why not a close friend? And if she had expressed a real concern, why did he not follow up on that, check on her, etc? Those questions lead me to believe it was just a remark, maybe even a bitter remark like 'yeah, so now your brother has abandoned me here out in the middle of nowhere and I'll likely end up raped and murdered'.

In any case, can you help me to see the link between PK having the code and what her BIL says was her concern about being raped and killed?

My post was meant as a response to your sentence:

<<< I doubt that she was thinking about her death at all when she gave him the code!>>>

----------------------

ETA:

<<< In any case, can you help me to see the link between PK having the code and what her BIL says was her concern about being raped and killed? >>>


There really is no connection.......other than Audrey feared being 'raped and killed' and PK found a sexually assaulted, dead Audrey by using the code.

And being 'raped and KILLED' means Audrey DID think of her own death......at least, at times. Because killed = death.

 

[greenthumb]

My post was meant as a response to your sentence:

<<< I doubt that she was thinking about her death at all when she gave him the code!>>>

----------------------

ETA:

<<< In any case, can you help me to see the link between PK having the code and what her BIL says was her concern about being raped and killed? >>>


There really is no connection.......other than Audrey feared being 'raped and killed' and PK found a sexually assaulted, dead Audrey by using the code.

And being 'raped and KILLED' means Audrey DID think of her own death......at least, at times. Because killed = death.

I did not say that AG did not EVER think of her own death... I said that I doubt that she was thinking of her own death at the time she gave the code to PK. To me, those seem to be two totally unrelated topics.

And therefore, I do not understand the significance of BIL's statement about her concern about being raped and killed in relation to PK having the garage code... unless you are suggesting that AG was afraid of being raped and killed because PK had the garage door code... and that does not make sense to me - SHE gave it to him and she would not have done so if she did not trust him! And if at some point she came to distrust him, she could have changed the door code.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I did not say that AG did not EVER think of her own death... I said that I doubt that she was thinking of her own death at the time she gave the code to PK. To me, those seem to be two totally unrelated topics.

And therefore, I do not understand the significance of BIL's statement about her concern about being raped and killed in relation to PK having the garage code... unless you are suggesting that AG was afraid of being raped and killed because PK had the garage door code... and that does not make sense to me - SHE gave it to him and she would not have done so if she did not trust him! And if at some point she came to distrust him, she could have changed the door code.

There is no significance. It's merely my paltry mind trying to connect all of the dots.

I'm very tired; most likely I need a rest.

 

[greenthumb]

There is no significance. It's merely my paltry mind trying to connect all of the dots.

I'm very tired; most likely I need a rest.

BBM

Aha! Well, there is the problem We don't HAVE all the dots! So no matter how we connect them, we don't end up with a full picture!

 

[LilyMacBloom]

I'm sorry, I lost track of this thread, how I'm not even sure, just one day it was "poof".

Next I'm thinking, why has no one posted on AG's thread?????

I did a new post search and came up with the posting of PK and the stollen cake recipe.
That post seemed very out of the blue, no prior posts from PK then a recipe???????? what up with that???????

I'm guessing PK reads as a guest, WHY?
I'm guessing because posts, nay entire threads have been pulled.
PK has made some sort of complaint WHY?

If you don't want to see what peeps post, don't read.
If you don't want to be held accountable for what you post, don't post.

Frankly, I'm not usually this point blank....but come on, how do you go from nothing, to a cake recipe? Why would you? it's always about the cake...it always comes back to the cake...the cake...the cake..the cake.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Oh Lily, you're right. It's always the cake, the cake, the cake!! :cupcake:

Thanks, I needed to read that right now. You also pose some important questions.

:twocents:

 

[LeftCoaster]

I'm guessing PK reads as a guest, WHY?
I'm guessing because posts, nay entire threads have been pulled.
PK has made some sort of complaint WHY?

If you don't want to see what peeps post, don't read.
If you don't want to be held accountable for what you post, don't post.

Frankly, I'm not usually this point blank....but come on, how do you go from nothing, to a cake recipe? Why would you? it's always about the cake...it always comes back to the cake...the cake...the cake..the cake.

Hi LilyMacBloom :seeya: ... As I understand the situation, we all have the luxury, here, of speculating from behind our screen names, signing in, signing out, and walking away from our computers - back to our "real" lives. It seems PK was upset when our sleuthing began to have an impact on his real life, and expressed this in a way that prompted the pulling of the threads for review. I don't have the specifics, because those, of course, vanished with Threads 4, 5, and 6. It doesn't take a genius, however, to understand the cautionary tone of the first post on this thread.

IMO, PK was generous enough to actually appear here and endeavour to answer questions as best he could, only to find that if anything, it intensified suspicions about him personally and in relation to Audrey's murder. We've parsed every answer and cross-compared each detail to the brink of ridiculousness - again MOO - and so I for one "get it" if PK has retreated to lurking as a guest, or perhaps fled this altogether and tried to get on with his life.

My view is an unpopular one here: that PK, while a POI among others, was indeed a close and treasured friend of Audrey's, a young man who is exceptional enough to be studying toward a doctoral degree in the sciences. He had the extreme misfortune of being the one to discover a nightmarish scene, the kind I think would, if it were I that discovered an elderly friend deceased in such a manner, would be traumatizing for a lifetime. PK has borne the justifiable scrutiny of LE and repeated inquiry. Apparently, the evidence is not strong enough to take him into custody. He has, it seems to me, done his best to not go off the rails and go on living his life. None of us can know what he has been through.

However, there appears to be a spirit here of, "For lack of anyone more obvious as a POI, we'll proceed with trial by WS." Which is why we've exhaustively analyzed doors and benches and cakes and garage-door entry codes. I have been surprised that this thread has thus far not gone the way of the others, and will guess that is partly why we have not seen anymore from PK.

Apologies for this rant, which is coming from a place of feeling totally fed up with "the cake, the cake, the cake," and what the H its relevance is to the murder. So, I'll be taking a vacation from this thread myself,:doorhide: with hopes that an eventual arrest will be made, some of us perhaps proven correct, some of us proven to be inaccurate, and justice claimed for Audrey - which is the most important achievement here. :silenced:

Peace out.eace:

 

[2soccermom]

LeftCoaster -- I really hope you don't take hiatus, or at least that it's brief. I myself have struggled with leaving and returning to Audrey's page here; in the end, I think we all want justice for Audrey and so I hope we can work together to ask good questions and challenge each other when speculation seems, in our passion, to appear as fact or truth, and to consider the implications of our work in and to people's everyday lives. I think the pulled threads remind us that this is a forum charged with great responsibility; although I'm sorry we have lost valuable archive, the force of that reminder is, I think, productive. MOO.

 

[colette]

I totally agree with you Leftcoaster, thanks for your post.

I think PK came across the recipe and decided to share it with his friends at WS. Sadly he found out he didn't have as many friends as he thought after catching up with those pulled threads. I think IF PK was the killer then he would have been watching our posts all along and would have said something before now. It only proves to me that he is not the killer and we should look elsewhere. We just need some more clues/dots or new information.

 

[2soccermom]

Lily MacB --
There may have been more messages from PK that framed the cake post, but we won't get to see them because they are in the pulled threads. MOO.

 

[greenthumb]

Hi LilyMacBloom :seeya: ... As I understand the situation, we all have the luxury, here, of speculating from behind our screen names, signing in, signing out, and walking away from our computers - back to our "real" lives. It seems PK was upset when our sleuthing began to have an impact on his real life, and expressed this in a way that prompted the pulling of the threads for review. I don't have the specifics, because those, of course, vanished with Threads 4, 5, and 6. It doesn't take a genius, however, to understand the cautionary tone of the first post on this thread.

IMO, PK was generous enough to actually appear here and endeavour to answer questions as best he could, only to find that if anything, it intensified suspicions about him personally and in relation to Audrey's murder. We've parsed every answer and cross-compared each detail to the brink of ridiculousness - again MOO - and so I for one "get it" if PK has retreated to lurking as a guest, or perhaps fled this altogether and tried to get on with his life.

My view is an unpopular one here: that PK, while a POI among others, was indeed a close and treasured friend of Audrey's, a young man who is exceptional enough to be studying toward a doctoral degree in the sciences. He had the extreme misfortune of being the one to discover a nightmarish scene, the kind I think would, if it were I that discovered an elderly friend deceased in such a manner, would be traumatizing for a lifetime. PK has borne the justifiable scrutiny of LE and repeated inquiry. Apparently, the evidence is not strong enough to take him into custody. He has, it seems to me, done his best to not go off the rails and go on living his life. None of us can know what he has been through.

However, there appears to be a spirit here of, "For lack of anyone more obvious as a POI, we'll proceed with trial by WS." Which is why we've exhaustively analyzed doors and benches and cakes and garage-door entry codes. I have been surprised that this thread has thus far not gone the way of the others, and will guess that is partly why we have not seen anymore from PK.

Apologies for this rant, which is coming from a place of feeling totally fed up with "the cake, the cake, the cake," and what the H its relevance is to the murder. So, I'll be taking a vacation from this thread myself,:doorhide: with hopes that an eventual arrest will be made, some of us perhaps proven correct, some of us proven to be inaccurate, and justice claimed for Audrey - which is the most important achievement here. :silenced:

Peace out.eace:

:goodpost:

Bravo, LC! My sentiments exactly!

Regarding PK - it is my feeling that, posting here on WS, we must be very mindful of the potential damage to his 'real' life, his 'real' family, his 'real' career - to him, this is not just an interesting mind exercise or a 'murder mystery' - this is his life! And AG was his friend.

I also feel that to lose him as an invaluable resource due to insensitive posts has not only been a great loss to this thread, but detrimental to our common desire to find justice for AG.

I had already decided to withdraw from this thread after the discussion returned once again to the cake yesterday. :noooo:

After many attempts to draw the discussion in different directions, I am joining you, LC, in a voluntary time out. :silenced:

Praying that justice does come for AG, and that LE will eventually find the evidence to charge and convict whoever is guilty, be it PK or someone else. And best wishes to all posters here who continue with the struggle to find justice for AG.

 

[greenthumb]

Lily MacB --
There may have been more messages from PK that framed the cake post, but we won't get to see them because they are in the pulled threads. MOO.

Yes, 2soccermom, thank you for pointing that out.

 

[greenthumb]

I totally agree with you Leftcoaster, thanks for your post.

I think PK came across the recipe and decided to share it with his friends at WS. Sadly he found out he didn't have as many friends as he thought after catching up with those pulled threads. I think IF PK was the killer then he would have been watching our posts all along and would have said something before now. It only proves to me that he is not the killer and we should look elsewhere. We just need some more clues/dots or new information.

BBM

This is a very good point, colette, and one that I just skimmed over but is now coming back to me. So, one last post to say thank you for clarifying that, I think you are right! I agree that PK had left this forum for some period of time, then came back. And you are right, IMO - this adds to the evidence against him being the killer. Good deduction!