CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #6

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  • #1,041
Me yet again (I'm on a roll here!). Quoted from Chorley8 above:

<<< He remains an unofficial person of interest in the investigation — at least that's the impression his lawyer gets. >>>



The key word is UNOFFICIAL. Someone else (and perhaps many others) are OFFICIALLY POI(s).

:twocents:
 
  • #1,042
I was under the impression that they do have dna, and that is why Scott was let free.
His dna did not match.

WADR, this has been clarified numerous times in these threads. We do NOT know if they have DNA. The only reference LE made was to "forensic evidence" that did not match DLS. Forensic evidence can be many things, some of which may provide DNA (i.e. blood, saliva) and others that don't provide DNA (i.e. bootprints).

LE would not comment on DNA, and if we are to believe DLS's defence attorney, there wasn't any DNA:

Hamilton Police Supt. Bill Stewart said the forensic evidence didn&#8217;t come back with the &#8220;conclusive results we were hoping for.&#8221;

He wouldn&#8217;t comment when asked if that means there wasn&#8217;t any DNA linking the suspect to the scene.

&#8220;I can&#8217;t go there, what that evidence was, because it&#8217;s part of the case and it&#8217;s still an open case,&#8221; Stewart said.

Scott&#8217;s lawyer, Charles Spettigue, said police had no DNA

from:
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/06/03/charge-dropped-in-killing-of-exteacher
 
  • #1,043
So, if there isn't DNA, how / why would there NOT be any, given such a horrific crime scene?
 
  • #1,044
So, if there isn't DNA, how / why would there NOT be any, given such a horrific crime scene?

Because any DNA on/near the body belonged to a person who was around Audrey a lot. A friend. A neighbour. Someone's DNA which should not be suspicious. Someone who was asked to 'make certain the body was dead'. Someone who (so far) seems to be getting away with murder. :stormingmad:

And that person is NOT DLS.

:twocents:
 
  • #1,045
More about the "no DNA" comment by DLS' lawyer.

Perhaps the lawyer meant to say that there was no DNA to link my client to the killing. :twocents:

There simply HAD to be some DNA. Audrey's. PK's. The convection oven man's. The dogs'. The garbage collectors'. The mail people's. LV's.

Does this make sense??:scared:
 
  • #1,046
  • #1,047
Sorry if I am approaching the case a little obliquely at the moment. Sorry as usual don't have time to edit as much as I would like.

Just watched the early Coppola film The Conversation. Insight into what was possible in surveillance in the early 70s commercial espioinage etc. not government. Not sure what the situation is today because the level of sophistication is hidden and anyone suggesting their phone might be bugged or someone might be following them is treated as crazy quite often by LE, people in general. This despite the very salutary but mostly unenforcable Criminal Harrassment laws in Canada . (I am not speaking of my situation but possibly Audrey's). Very good RCMP page on stalking here:


http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cp-pc/crimhar-eng.htm


Note that her caution is often portrayed as wacky secretiveness. It might have been, but without evidence I am taking her caution/near paranoia as having a ground, a reason. There could have been a long-standing campaign to force her offer her property, ruin her life for whatever reason....whether there doesn't have to be that big of a reason just someone with that goal. I think she did a pretty good job of enjoying her life regardless.

And that doesn't mean there isn't something big in the background when we say here "Chalk River" and the world of her Dad it could just be a person, something she knows about someone, since she is a woman and women are the victims of crime still to an unpardonable degree in our society (just read through WS) it could have been something done to her as a young woman or as a child. Something that would ruin a person's life still if they were found out. I will try to express this better and with a bit more data in future - just wanted to get it down tonight.....it fits with the rape and murder premonition.....doesn't have to be Chalk River of course. I mentioned already that a relative of Susan Cadieux might have been buried in the cemetery next door. That person was very Slavic looking in composite so much so that it was strange he was never caught. There is a thread on Unsolved Crimes with details and composite. DNA was found after 2000 I believe in that case so it is open. Could be something else we know nothing about these are just easy examples.

Hypothesis: whatever was done sexually to Audrey also the violence: someone had wanted to do this for a long long time. They had thought about it....then did it.

No Stone, or anyone: in your opinion, in your sense of Audrey if she received threatening or mysterious phone calls, hang ups would she confide in friends? Or keep it to herself? Not sure myelf.

Just adding: to us Amazing Grace stands out as a single odd email. Perhaps it was the last of a litany. Maybe LE does not even have access to them, maybe someone had access to her and her house for some hours and forced her to delete, maybe Audrey deleted them. I wish I had more evidence but I have one big piece of evidence: Audrey's policies and behaviour for now I am taking them at face value.
 
  • #1,048
Quoted from Chorley8:

<<< Just adding: to us Amazing Grace stands out as a single odd email. Perhaps it was the last of a litany. Maybe LE does not even have access to them, maybe someone had access to her and her house for some hours and forced her to delete, maybe Audrey deleted them. I wish I had more evidence but I have one big piece of evidence: Audrey's policies and behaviour for now I am taking them at face value. >>>


I think that the RCMP and FBI can read our hard drives even if we've deleted things and tried to wipe the hard drive clean.

They have their ways.......

:twocents:
 
  • #1,049
Quoted from Chorley8:

<<< No Stone, or anyone: in your opinion, in your sense of Audrey if she received threatening or mysterious phone calls, hang ups would she confide in friends? Or keep it to herself? Not sure myelf. >>>



I'm completely unsure. You would think she'd have told LV and/or PK......but I really don't know.

:twocents:
 
  • #1,050
Quoted from Chorley8:

<<< No Stone, or anyone: in your opinion, in your sense of Audrey if she received threatening or mysterious phone calls, hang ups would she confide in friends? Or keep it to herself? Not sure myelf. >>>



I'm completely unsure. You would think she'd have told LV and/or PK......but I really don't know.

:twocents:

If ANYONE (friend or otherwise) said to me, "oh btw, I think I might end up raped and murdered in my own home", my first reaction would be to say, "What the @#$% makes you think that?" What'd DG say to AG ... "That's nice dear, have a nice day"?
 
  • #1,051
**UNRELATED**
but thought this might be of interest to some of you.
Missing Ancaster man sparks social media frenzy

Investigators said in a press release he was last seen driving his truck in the Ancaster area.

This is the link to his thread: Timothy Bosma, 32,May 7th, Hamilton Ontario
 
  • #1,052
And further to SB's post - what did DG do with that info? Just ignore it? Try to get Audrey to explain it? Report it to ANYONE?

I also would like to know if the comment from Audrey was said in seriousness or as a (albeit bad) joke. It seems to me that DG took the comment as a serious one.

:twocents:
 
  • #1,053
And more thoughts about the RCMP and FBI knowing how to retrieve info from people's computers - this also goes for the computer(s) of the killer. Unless his computers are now on the bottom of Lake Ontario!!

:scared:
 
  • #1,054
If ANYONE (friend or otherwise) said to me, "oh btw, I think I might end up raped and murdered in my own home", my first reaction would be to say, "What the @#$% makes you think that?" What'd DG say to AG ... "That's nice dear, have a nice day"?

SB obviously the topic is far from from funny - but you have made me laugh - the way the article ended portentiosly with that sentence hides the journalist's lack of curiosity at that moment- very good and thanks for this!
 
  • #1,055
And more thoughts about the RCMP and FBI knowing how to retrieve info from people's computers - this also goes for the computer(s) of the killer. Unless his computers are now on the bottom of Lake Ontario!!

:scared:

Of course your excellent point NS brings up some evidence perhaps of P.'s innocence and probably L as well- they would have so much surely from their computers - and it would be very suspicious to say your computer may be at the bottom of Lake Ontario!
 
  • #1,056
And further to SB's post - what did DG do with that info? Just ignore it? Try to get Audrey to explain it? Report it to ANYONE?

I also would like to know if the comment from Audrey was said in seriousness or as a (albeit bad) joke. It seems to me that DG took the comment as a serious one.

:twocents:

Another excellent point and still keeping in mind SB's point - it may be the ARTICLE that made those words assuming they were said seem so prophetic!

Now off-topic - if anyone knows Spanish and can translate one sentence on the Sharin Keenan thread last or recent post please do so - from a Toronto Spanish newspaper my most recent post - a fairly moribund thread so little chance of someone passing through with that competence - thanks
 
  • #1,057
First time poster here, although I joined a few years back with some interest in this case. I am well acquainted with the married couple (for the sake of their deserved privacy, I will not name them) who now own the Gleave property, and had noticed, in my quick catch-up with this thread, that there was some suspicion surrounding how they obtained the property. I would like to put an end to that immediately. The wife's parents actually live almost <MODSNIP>, in a house tucked away from the road, <MODSNIP>. So of course, they were aware right away that the property would be available, as they were first to hear about the unfortunate murder. The couple had already been looking to move, as their house, located ten minutes away, could no longer accommodate their growing family.

Their real estate agent was a friend of the family with no connection to Gleave. The reason that the house was so cheap is that it was extremely poorly constructed and in terrible shape. As you all seem to know, Gleave was a hoarder. But you may not know that she was a hoarder <MODNSIP>. The wife never saw the home with Gleave's possessions still inside it, but as she described it to me, the kitchen floor was worn down in a particular way that indicated there was only a path for Gleave to get through. <MODSNIP>.

The wife also told me that it was evident that Gleave's things were stacked high against the walls as you could see where the wallpaper was shaded. It may have looked nice from the outside but the interior was a wreck. It needed to be demolished. Also, the couple wanted to build a much larger house for their family, with a more modern style. And of course, there is some hesitancy in living where someone was so brutally murdered, which is all the more reason to start fresh. And they were really wanting to be closer to family. I have children of my own, so I completely understand how helpful proximity to grandparents can be, and now their parents are <MODSNIP>.

I am not sure who benefited from the sale as the house, as I am not one to ask someone financial questions. But I do not believe that the murder was financially motivated. I personally think the murder was the result of a sick and twisted mind.

I do have a few more things to impart, that might interest you. The wife told me that her parents were disappointed in how the LE handled the case. They were never approached, even though they have several outhouses on their property that might have been searched. Her mother had to contact the police to tell them about her own unpleasant experience with DLS. They never came once to their door, even though they live so nearby. I think it was because the LE was already so convinced that DLS was the one responsible, and this is why they were not thorough.

I believe that Gleave was killed the night that the neighbour's dog was barking. The properties are all set far away from one another that neighbours would not hear other dogs barking, but they would hear their own.

<MODSNIP> The wife also heard the same thing, and she had some inside sources as she was purchasing the house. This does not correspond with PK's description of the body. <MODSNIP>

RIP, Audrey.
 
  • #1,058
Welcome thanks for such an interesting post. <MODSNIP>: interesting though of course rumour is rumour - but it is true that local people often know things about the case bored LE who know people in the areas etc. sometimes talk. I think what has stymied us the fact that 1. we were told she was wearing a heavy coat and 2. her pants were ripped. Hence we concluded some of us a different kind of injury. As you say PK saw no evidence of this but IF she was wearing a coat and it was put on afterwards perhaps he wouldn't notice esp. if the wounds/theft were post -mortem - o/w surely there would be a lot of blood. Not contesting you just thinking aloud.


I am surprised that someone would be comfortable in the house without the apprehension of the murderer. You have just made me think of something though (thinking aloud) could the arrest have been necessary to get the property sold? (Sorry I know what I am saying contradicts the whole point of your post)! Having seen pictures of the house yes I would be extremely sceptical of the idea that the interior condition was so terrible - very odd to be planting garden plants etc and have the inside a ruin.

Interesting that P.K. saw no evidence of this hoarding unless he was honouring Audrey's memory with his silence. Also the person who said they had been in her house from the memorial site. I guess not the place to criticize though on the memorial site!

Do you know what she hoarded? I am a bit suspicious of the hoarding notion (I mean generally not your attestation of this) these days since it is so fashionable, TV shows etc. and it can be a useful way to get oldsters to move on from their property (look a hoarder they are mentally ill!).

What did she "hoard" do you happen to know?

Again thanks for such an illuminating post.

adding: quoting you "So of course, they were aware right away that the property would be available, as they were first to hear about the unfortunate murder. " Why were they first to hear about the unfortunate murder? Do you know if they knew Audrey that well sorry maybe you mentioned that. Someone is murdered across the street a bizarre sex murder of a woman and one thinks: property available? I know it is not so uncommon though.

"I believe that Gleave was killed the night that the neighbour's dog was barking. The properties are all set far away from one another that neighbours would not hear other dogs barking, but they would hear their own". You can hear dogs barking a pretty good distance. I lived in the country and you can easily hear a dog outside at night a mile.

May I ask what was the unfortunate experience with DLS?

Was the agent with Remax that is a big enough company that it naming it shouldn't point to anyone! Anyway normally a real estate agent is public info. You say the real estate agent is a friend of the family which family - just didn't get the context, sorry.
 
  • #1,059
  • #1,060
Thanks for all your input patchtimes ... and Welcome

While i'm inclined to believe the <MODSNIP> you refer to, we still have to consider it "rumour" unless it is stated by LE through MSM. In considering it to be true however, do you happen to know if there has been reference to whether or not <MODSNIP>?
 
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