CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #8

[2soccermom]

I'm sorry I can't give credit to the blogger(s) who created this site -- http://fdpu1004.centerblog.net/rub-faits-divers-meurtre--15.html but I can't seem to find attribution. Near the bottom of the page, there is an early article (I think by Irene Thomadis) on Audrey's murder, dated December 31, 2010 4 pm. It's in French. I can't vouch for the accuracy of the details and my French is rusty, but I believe it gives more detail than I have seen in other accounts --at least, as I remember. For example, the line «Nous avons établi qu’il y avait eu 12 coups de couteau ainsi que d’autres blessures que nous analyseront sous peu» seems to indicate a very specific number of wounds by knife and other injuries; "Il est possible que plusieurs individus aient pris part au crime" indicates that it's possible there is more than one perp.
I guess the latter idea is not especially new. More interesting, I think, is the reference to 'other injuries that will be analyzed shortly'; I don't think we have ever been apprised of the 'other injuries.' We've only been told there was some kind of sexual component, but not how or why.
I don't actually think some of these precise details are important -- there's something unseemly about graphic descriptions. But as we approach the third "anniversary" I do think the public needs some more info in order to help generate more leads. This is all I could find; it may not be new and perhaps not useful.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoted from 2soccermom's post:

"Il est possible que plusieurs individus aient pris part au crime" indicates that it's possible there is more than one perp.


Translation: "It is possible that several people took part in this crime" .

Wow...... sort of where we were going all along, non?

:twocents:

 

[Woodland]

Something just occurred to me - the Will was 'rammed' through probate court, imo in what seems like a short period of time, with only $50K in cash and $450K reported as the value of the property. This supports the notion that the executrix and beneficiary had no idea what AG was worth in terms of money - until later.

What if that move was also for multiple perps? They took part figuring there was only $500K to go around rather than closer to one million?

If so, pretty smart imo at the time. The problem would be in the reporting at WS how that is considered awfully light on the cash side (considering the new $50K vehicle) and the property might have brought more if it was allowed to be or stay on the open market. If one was willing to wait.

What's a perp going to do when they realize this, if they did?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoting again from 2soccermom's post:

qu’il y avait eu 12 coups de couteau ainsi que d’autres blessures

"There were 12 stab/knife wounds as well as other injuries"......

That's really specific. Twelve = a dozen. Not 13 which is "a baker's dozen".

Questions just at random:

- were the 12 stab wounds deliberately chosen as 12?
- do we know if the person who did the stabbing was left or right handed?
- where did the knife come from? from Audrey's own kitchen?
- where on her body were these stab wounds? (because PK seemed to think at first that AG had only slipped on some ice)

What a terrible shame............

 

[LambChop]

This thread has been cleaned up and is now open for posting again. In addition, the previously pulled threads are now back out for reading.

Please remember - do NOT speculate beyond information provided by MSM and LE. You can note what was said in the media and compare and contrast but do not bring innocent people into the discussion and do not make accusations.

Thanks,

Salem

Please see above ^

Do not repeat rumors and don't start new ones.

 

[Woodland]

With all due respect and for clarification,

- we do not know which day AG was killed - never reported by LE
- we do know the executrix of the Will places herself at AG's residence on 27 Dec 2010 - by her own words and LE's words as reported many times in MSM and posted here
- AG's German Sheppards were found confined for an unknown period of time - no speculation given publicly by LE

Speculation on the above scenario is one thing, I agree, but they are facts.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Also, please someone clarify for me:

Don't we know from MSM, LE, PK and LV about deliveries of soup & cake?

Thanks,
Stone :blushing:

 

[Woodland]

Yes NSU - we know umpteen times via MSM that AG's closest friends were at her residence before and after the crime - AG was ill, she's recovering, she's not recovering, she's going out to meet other friends, she's not going out to meet other friends - yada, yada, yada - imo.

We just don't know when the crime actually happened.

LE might have that narrowed down, we at WS don't have that narrowed down.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Yes NSU - we know umpteen times via MSM that AG's closest friends were at her residence before and after the crime - AG was ill, she's recovering, she's not recovering, she's going out to meet other friends, she's not going out to meet other friends - yada, yada, yada - imo.

We just don't know when the crime actually happened.

LE might have that narrowed down, we at WS don't have that narrowed down.

Well, thank you! For a moment there I thought I'd been sleeping since January 2011 and was having a nightmare about soup & cake. Whew! I feel better now................

:drumroll:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoting yet again :blushing: from 2soccermom's post:

"Il est possible que plusieurs individus aient pris part au crime"

As I read this (and my French is very good) it's saying that several people possibly took part in the actual crime itself. For me, that means that there were several people who were possibly present at the moment AG was brutally stabbed to death.

How horrific.

:twocents:

 

[Woodland]

One person or several - no footprints leading from the stabbing sight to a door? That's according to PK posted here some time ago btw. First person present to discover AG, but saw nothing out of the ordinary.

A little 'off'? Planned very well? A fluke as never seen at a crime scene before?

My thoughts and questions only.

 

[Woodland]

Btw - thanks for the french translations NSU! I personally would have no idea what was being said in the articles from another site.

Cheers!

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Also about what we know from MSM - 27th December, 2010 was the final time AG was heard from by anyone. That was the final date of her e-mails to PK and LF.

It had been raining and somewhat mucky on the day PK found the body. Perhaps that's why he saw no footprints. Could it have been raining so hard that all footprints were washed away?

Now, speaking of rainy/mucky - did PK see any footprints of mud/muckiness in the garage? Or, were the only mucky footprints put there by him when he found the body and went back to check for a pulse?

:twocents:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Btw - thanks for the french translations NSU! I personally would have no idea what was being said in the articles from another site.

Cheers!

Bienvenue = Welcome (as French Canadiens say it!!)

 

[LambChop]

Btw - thanks for the french translations NSU! I personally would have no idea what was being said in the articles from another site.

Cheers!

Me either. I'm totally lost on the articles. LOL

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

A thought/question:

Since it had been 'rainy/mucky' as I said - why did PK think AG perhaps fell on a piece of ice? Was it cold enough for ice at that time?

Thanks to anyone who knows......

 

[Woodland]

AG was found in her garage - rain etc would have no bearing on the scene.

That is where footprints should have been found if a stabbing (especially if it was 12 times) occurred. According to PK, he saw nothing in the way of prints. How can one walk away, if they were up close and personal, leaving no trace if blood was present?

Not doable imo.

Unlike PK, I would like an answer to that question. To clarify - PK stated he did not need an answer to what happened to AG, only his memory of her.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

The only way (in my opinion) there would be no footprints near the body would be if the killer(s) wore booties like doctors wear or the forensics team wears.

But then the killers(s) would have had to sit somewhere (on the bench????) to remove the booties before exiting the garage.

One thing we must remember from the LE announcement posted here by Woodland not too long ago. It clearly states that "there was no forced entry" and "nothing appears to be missing from the house".

My own humble conclusions from that police announcement are these:
- the killer(s) had easy access to the garage/house
- the motive for murder was not stealing

Did AG herself let her killer(s) in? I highly doubt it; it just doesn't feel right to me.

:twocents:

 

[LambChop]

I'm still not that familiar with this case but could the killer/killers have been after her car? Is it possible that she surprised someone in the garage and after she was killed the dogs caused such a ruckus that they left???

 

[Woodland]

AG's dogs were found crated in the house - there has to be a reason for crating them in the first place. We know from LV and PK through MSM and postings here that they were both wary of the dogs.

We don't know if JV was ever at AG's, if he was there over that holiday and or if he was wary of AG's dogs.

Letting someone in that was wary of the dogs would be one reason to crate the dogs. Surprising someone in the garage seems to defeat having German Sheppards - crated.

It follows that AG let the perp(s) in - expecting the visit and crated the dogs accordingly. Imo.