CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #8

[colette]

Being that Audrey had been a teacher in the community, many people might know about her and her history. Especially driving around in that car. Someone could ask, "who's that old lady in that muscle car?" "Oh that's Audrey, she's a retired teacher who lives up the road by herself." It could happen. It is all speculation since we don't know.

 

[Woodland]

Imo, speculation requires using what is known.

AG crated her dogs on what day, at what moment .... ? Because ....? After the soup was delivered by LV? The next day? The day after that?

AG was going to the coffee group ..... then? She said on Monday she was going to go on Wednesday ..... then? When did she decide she was to ill? After the soup was delivered? The next day?

What a stranger may have thought requires even more. Imo.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

The following is not speculation. Rather, it is a series of facts from LE:

- there was no forced entry - hence, AG knew her killer and either let him in or he let himself in

- the final day AG is known to be alive is 27th December, 2010

- there was a soup delivery

- there was a cake delivery - delivered late to AG who was "a stickler for time"

- "Amazing Grace" was e-mailed to only 2 people - PK and LF

With all of these facts (and I've left out many more) how on earth can speculation be used in this crime? Shouldn't we be dealing with 'the facts ma'am, just the facts' as our starting point?

:twocents:

 

[colette]

We don't know if Audrey had the garage door up letting the smoke out from a cigarette and someone came in.

 

[2soccermom]

I'm not sure I agree that because the dogs were crated that this implies Audrey knew her attacker(s). That is of course a possibility. But it is also possible that Audrey may have had a habit of crating the dogs at night; many animals enjoy and find comfort in their crates and Audrey's may have slept in theirs regularly. IF Audrey was murdered in the early hours -- and the F's dogs barking at 2:30 am *might* suggest this -- then she may not have deliberately removed the dogs and secured them away from someone she was expecting. Audrey by many reports was a late-night owl; she may have been getting ready for bed, crated the dogs, and went to the garage for a last smoke before sleep.
My sense of what happened is that she was surprised in the garage. That may not be how her murder happened, but if the neighbour's dogs were barking in response to Audrey's dogs signalling an intruder, it is plausible.
Of course, even if I'm right and this was a surprise attack, that doesn't necessarily require that her attacker was a stranger.
But there is something about her secretive early life that remains of interest to me, and the odd prophesy of her demise. She had the big dogs for protection, we've been told, as much as for companionship. We have had no indication she suspected any of the people provisionally sleuthed here. But there seem to be other intimations of Audrey's fear (as indicated by the BIL) about which we have no further info to aid in our work.
MOO.

 

[MsSherlock]

The crazy part about Audrey's murder is that we still don't know the time of death. We're always assuming it was in the dark of the night, but for as much as we know it may have happened in broad daylight- after all, the garage door was down when her body was discovered.
IMO, it would also be very helpful if LE released the time of death-was it 1 day, 2 days or more? Audrey was also a computer fan, so her computer should have had a trace of her activities from the days before her murder.
The dogs being locked up has always indicated to me that she was expecting someone OR was asked by someone to put the dogs away. IMO, Audrey just doesn't seem like the type to lock her dogs up at night while she slept. I think if we pay too much attention to the neighbors dogs barking we get tunnel vision as to the time of the murder. MOO

 

[MsSherlock]

BTW, I'm so glad this thread is back up It'll almost the 3rd year anniversary of Audrey's death.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

OK, let's assume for discussion's sake that Audrey was having a smoke in her garage and was killed by an intruder who had been hiding in the bushes waiting for the garage door to open and for her to sit down peacefully with her smokes.

So, the killer(s) enters the garage. Puts foot coverings on (because we know from PK that there was no blood on the garage floor). Stabs her 12 times with a knife. Adds other injuries. Kills her. Then, the killer(s) have to take the foot coverings off, hop skip and jump around the dead body, run to the indoor garage clicker in order to close the garage door, and then quickly duck down and make their escape before they get crushed by the descending garage door.

Does that make any sense? How else would the gargage door be closed?

:twocents:

 

[MsSherlock]

OK, let's assume for discussion's sake that Audrey was having a smoke in her garage and was killed by an intruder who had been hiding in the bushes waiting for the garage door to open and for her to sit down peacefully with her smokes.

So, the killer(s) enters the garage. Puts foot coverings on (because we know from PK that there was no blood on the garage floor). Stabs her 12 times with a knife. Adds other injuries. Kills her. Then, the killer(s) have to take the foot coverings off, hop skip and jump around the dead body, run to the indoor garage clicker in order to close the garage door, and then quickly duck down and make their escape before they get crushed by the descending garage door.

Does that make any sense? How else would the gargage door be closed?

:twocents:

No Stone, perhaps it didn't happen that way? Perhaps the perp came into the house by either the garage or another entrance and the garage door was then closed? Then, after the murder, the perp left by another door out of the house, thinking that #1 there may have been something in the house the perp wanted to find #2 not drawing attention to a dead body in the garage and not having to walk by the dead body on their way out.
Like you, I find the absence of blood at the scene very strange-however, that comes from an eye witness account and shock may be playing a crucial role here. It's totally possible that the amount of blood just didn't register with PK, or if it did, it's been blocked in his memories.

 

[MsSherlock]

My exit via another door theory would make sense, especially if the perp didn't have the garage door code and wasn't aware that you could hit the button and try to get out before the door closed, perhaps even jumping a light sensor on the way. MOO

 

[colette]

Maybe the killer was trying to steal Audrey's car and she caught him. Maybe they used one of those bypass garage door openers. Then after killing Audrey the car would be too hot to take because now it was tied to a murder, so he just left.

 

[colette]

I'd like to see it in MSM because the only thing I remember seeing is that he was cleared early on.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

To enlighten myself and all of us:

Suspect vs. POI:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090916115623AA0S3mi

 

[Woodland]

From an article dated 30 Dec 2011 -


While the motive remains a mystery, as do Gleave's movements in the days before her death, Matthews says it was not a random attack.

"The person who killed Audrey was a person who was known to her."


Read more: http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/audrey-...mystery-one-year-later-1.747175#ixzz2nxRWVruf

 

[roseofsharon]

I wonder if LE has gone this far in their investigation with AG's close friends and acquaintences.

http://www.diligentiagroup.com/lega...g-cell-phone-location-cell-tower-information/

It doesn't seem to matter where people are or what they are up to, they use their cell phone to call or text someone, not realizing their location can be traced.

With AG being such a private person, there are only a few people she knew that would have known she lived alone.

IMO, a stranger would not have taken the chance, unless they had been stalking AG for a long time.

Others knowing she lived alone were people in her neighbourhood and postal/parcel delivery workers and utilities workers.

IMO

 

[LambChop]

To enlighten myself and all of us:

Suspect vs. POI:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090916115623AA0S3mi

But that rule does not apply here at WS. They have to be named a suspect, or a POI by LE. Many times posters will speculate about someone they think should be a suspect only to find out later they were perfectly innocent. We can discuss around it, in the third person but to come out and speculate someone specifically is guilty, or is suspected of guilt, without LE stating so is against TOS as I understand it.

 

[Woodland]

Just wanted to bring this post forward in light of the current thoughts.

From thread #2, page 9, post #210 by PK -

The detectives are now putting lots of pressure on those of us who knew AG well (and honestly, I've always thought it likely that AG either knew or expected a visit from her attacker).

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Audrey Gleave, retired teacher, viciously murdered in home, Ancaster Ontario, #2

 

[MsSherlock]

MsSherlock, I hear ya. But LE said "it appears that nothing was taken" from the house.

So, if the killer(s) left via a door other than the garage door, were there no footprints in the mud/snow leading away from the house door where they left?

And about PK being traumatised - well, I suppose the entire event would have him traumatised. He's still a suspect and he did have "inconsistencies" in his polygraph. That, in itself, might be traumatising.

:twocents:

What a conundrum of a case........:maddening:

ADDED: What would be the motive of a stranger killing Audrey? The car was still there; nothing (it appears) was taken. And where is this lunatic killer right now?

No Stone- I've heard conflicting reports of items being taken from the house. This once states that there were items missing. The problem is, we don't know what they where.
http://www.chch.com/one-less-suspect-in-gleave-murder-mystery/

 

[roseofsharon]

It's been three years, not a lot of new information and some conflicting reports, i.e. items missing ... nothing missing.

LV dropped off soup the morning of December 27th, but then it has been reported that AG took her dogs to the vet that same day to pick up their vitamins.

I have often wondered, if you are not feeling well and your friend brings soup, why would AG leave her home to run an errand that could have been put on hold for the sake of a couple of days.

It was reported on MSM that AG hugged DC, as she always did, when she left. Why would AG do this, if she had a virus?

IMO

Sorry, I think I repeated information here.

 

[2soccermom]

That's an interesting point, ROS, about the hug/virus discrepancy. I'm not sure what it means, exactly -- unless it is that Audrey was feeling better, but had needed an excuse not to visit others she didn't want to see over the holiday? Again, I'm not sure. What's your take on it?

Thanks for clarifying the rules for us, LambChop. It's such an important time of year for Audrey's thread -- it's really important that we don't shut down again as we are all so anxiously hoping for an update later this month!