CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #8

[dotr]

If Audrey had wanted to catch someone in the act of "snooping" in her house, she might send out a message stating that she absolutely is going to keep an appointment and then not keep it. Maybe Audrey used her illness whether real or fabricated, to stay home and catch a snoop, or even a mailbox vandal??

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Hey dotr - that's a really good theory! And it explains the 'she's unwell, she's fine, she's getting better, she's at the Vet's' etc.

:tyou:

 

[dotr]

Stone, I could be all wrong here, but I think this may be the crux of what Canadian4 is getting at.

In C4's speculative scenario, AG thought someone was snooping inside her home, when she was away from her home and so she may have waited inside her garage to hear how and where the snooper/murderer was entering.

If this person was looking in her windows first, they would not have seen her and perhaps may have also seen that the dogs were in their crates, therefore, the murderer thought AG wasn't home and it was safe to go snooping. Curtains may or may not have been on the garage window, again speculation.

The garage door opening is pure speculation also.

IMO, this is a very plausible theory, as AG was very intelligent and may have set this up, as C4 suggested, in order to catch whomever this was, but got much more than she bargained for.

Above opinions expressed are pure speculation expanding on C4's speculation. (whew!)

Rbbm.

If Audrey enjoyed the " hardware mailbox part caper' , it is possible to imagine she engaged in the greater risk/ thrill/ challenge of catching someone in the act of invading her space.imo

 

[Sillybilly]

With the snoop theory in mind, and the idea that Audrey was a bit of a feisty senior ... IIRC, Audrey bought her Camaro in the spring of 2010 and PK stated he never rode with her in the new Camaro. Who might the friend be who shared the following tidbit?

She once drove a friend through a quiet neighbourhood in Brantford. An elderly woman on the sidewalk looked on in disgust as the Camaro rumbled past.

Audrey loved it.

<bbm>

from:
http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2216816-audrey-s-story-continues/

"Audrey loved it" reminds me of her excitement related to the mailbox part escapade ... &#8220;She was so excited, it was her big night,&#8221; Phil said. &#8220;It was awesome.&#8221;

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2111178-who-killed-audrey-gleave-/

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

NEED HELP HERE PLEASE:

From where/from whom do we know that Audrey thought someone had been snooping in/around her house?

Thanks.........

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

With the snoop theory in mind, and the idea that Audrey was a bit of a feisty senior ... IIRC, Audrey bought her Camaro in the spring of 2010 and PK stated he never rode with her in the new Camaro. Who might the friend be who shared the following tidbit?

<bbm>

from:
http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2216816-audrey-s-story-continues/

Possibilities:
- LV
- F mom
- the Vet
- the BIL (I know, that's a stretch)
- a fellow student at Mohawk College
- her mechanic (again, a stretch)
- coffee group member

:twocents:

 

[Sillybilly]

NEED HELP HERE PLEASE:

From where/from whom do we know that Audrey thought someone had been snooping in/around her house?

Thanks.........

It is C4's theory and it might tie in with Audrey's fairly recent email to LF where she expressed a concern about going outside at night without her dogs.

 

[Sillybilly]

:seeya: Hey fellow sleuthers, thanks. If memory serves (and that is questionable!) when we saw the photos right after the killing it didn't seem to me that there was a curtain/covering on the garage window.

And you know, this really is a good theory! It's so Audrey - you know, to 'catch someone in the act' of entering the garage and (possibly) scaring the person's wits out. That, from what we know of Audrey, seems to fit her personality/characteristics.

Now you've all got me wondering if Audrey's garage door was noisy when it was being opened/closed. Ours isn't terribly noisy but (when I'm in the house) I can usually here it opening/closing by my husband.

Hmmmmm........more food for thought here.....

:twocents:

BTW: We don't bother with window covering for our garage. Afterall, it's really only a garage.

I recall the same wrt no window covering, but would have to find the pics again.

Not sure where you're going with whether the garage door makes a noise or not, but IMO as a GSD owner ... you can bet yer bippy those big shepherd ears would have heard it either way.

 

[Sillybilly]

When Audrey normally attended her Wednesday coffee klatch, I wonder if she would take the dogs (IMO, probably not) or leave them confined at home. If someone believed Audrey would be out Wednesday and the dogs would be confined, there would be no fear on the part of the perp to enter the home. This theory could indicate that Audrey was killed during what would normally be her coffee meeting time on Wednesday, and explain why there was no apparent mess by the dogs in the relatively short period of time until her body was discovered Thursday morning.

A Wednesday death however would not explain why her last email was on Monday, unless she was not as prolific an emailer as we thought.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

To SB - with the garage door possibly being noisy I was thinking that anyone who knew Audrey's house/garage might be wary of entering via the garage IF the door was noisy when opening/closing.

:twocents:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoted from SB's post above:

A Wednesday death however would not explain why her last email was on Monday, unless she was not as prolific an emailer as we thought.


I understand that we *thought* Audrey e-mailed many times per day. Now that I think about that......it does seem pretty incredible. Especially given that AG was a relatively quiet individual who loved her privacy.

:twocents:

 

[roseofsharon]

When Audrey normally attended her Wednesday coffee klatch, I wonder if she would take the dogs (IMO, probably not) or leave them confined at home. If someone believed Audrey would be out Wednesday and the dogs would be confined, there would be no fear on the part of the perp to enter the home. This theory could indicate that Audrey was killed during what would normally be her coffee meeting time on Wednesday, and explain why there was no apparent mess by the dogs in the relatively short period of time until her body was discovered Thursday morning.

A Wednesday death however would not explain why her last email was on Monday, unless she was not as prolific an emailer as we thought.

When PK found AG on her garage floor on December 30th, at first he thought she had slipped and fallen.

The distance between PK standing at the garage door and being able to view where AG lay on the garage floor does not look to be that far and iirc, there was no mention from PK regarding rigor mortis, which (only my own opinion), seems to suggest it had already come and gone.

I realize, there are many factors regarding this chemical process to take into consideration, i.e. weather, etc.

There was no mention from PK regarding decay odour.

I also realize because PK did not mention any stiffness, does not mean it was not there.

IMO

http://chemistry.about.com/cs/biochemistry/a/aa061903a.htm


Footnote: IIRC ... 2,000 emails from AG to PK in 4 years.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoting (again) :blushing: from SB's link a few posts back:

She once drove a friend through a quiet neighbourhood in Brantford. An elderly woman on the sidewalk looked on in disgust as the Camaro rumbled past.

Audrey loved it.



Going along with AG possibly surprising a snoop, this gives credence to her liking surprises/shocking people. The phrase "Audrey loved it" tells us that she was no wall-flower. She drove that car with confidence and pride.

Good on her!!

 

[roseofsharon]

When Audrey normally attended her Wednesday coffee klatch, I wonder if she would take the dogs (IMO, probably not) or leave them confined at home. If someone believed Audrey would be out Wednesday and the dogs would be confined, there would be no fear on the part of the perp to enter the home. This theory could indicate that Audrey was killed during what would normally be her coffee meeting time on Wednesday, and explain why there was no apparent mess by the dogs in the relatively short period of time until her body was discovered Thursday morning.

A Wednesday death however would not explain why her last email was on Monday, unless she was not as prolific an emailer as we thought.

Or she had an unwanted houseguest preventing her from doing so?

So, iirc, AG's final email is December 27th approx. 6:00 p.m. to LF.

imo

 

[roseofsharon]

Do we know if AG opened and closed her garage door with a FOB when she was driving home or did she have to exit her vehicle and use the keypad outside the garage?

Either way, someone waiting in the bushes, with intent to hotwire her car, would have been able to enter the garage quickly as the door was going up.

We know AG was stabbed, but LE did not release the details regarding the weapon used. It may have been a slotted screwdriver, as apparently, the only tools needed to hotwire a vehicle are a slotted screwdriver and wire strippers.

AG's car was equipped with an antitheft device, but the thief would not have known this if they were (young and close).

This is more speculative theory.

IMO

 

[Chorley8]

Or she had an unwanted houseguest preventing her from doing so?

So, iirc, AG's final email is December 27th approx. 6:00 p.m. to LF.

imo

Thanks this is important just to emphasize that. I agree (not 100% sure of course) with the houseguest idea. I do think the most probable thing is that Audrey was held hostage for info stashed money or gold and especially the will and the AG emails are signals. I think she told them where to go hence ( I am guessing) increasing violence.

I would love to know whether the injuries support the idea of a beating/torture followed by more severe injuries that could leave to death or a lethal wound.

I have nowhere to go with the following but just to say I have a fully developed theory of the murder that involves that out towards St. Catherines way suspect and a fiance of someone mentioned in the recent email - not as perps but as older family members of the kids setting up the murder and benefiting from it.

We have to speak generally so 1. someone involved with the last bequest + 2. someone who would benefit from the property NOT the house per se but long term I bet something is up with plans for the extensive land around her house. 3. that email recipient.

There is a link between St. Catherines (not St. Catherines but out that way) and 'across the road' sorry to have to write like this this I know for sure but can't spell it out here.

 

[dotr]

Torture as opposed to out of control anger seems to make sense imo..
http://www.hamiltonpolice.on.ca/HPS/CrimeFiles/Help+Us+Solve+This+Crime/gleave.htm
bbm.
"On Thursday December 30th, 2010 Police responded to 3401 Indian Trail Road, Lynden and discovered the lifeless body of Audrey GLEAVE (73 years). Gleave had been the victim of a particularly violent attack and had been stabbed multiple times.

Gleave was a retired school teacher who lived alone at the property. There were no signs of forced entry to the property and it is not believed that anything was taken from the home during the attack.

Gleave was last seen alive on the morning of Monday 27th December 2010 when she was visited by a friend"

 

[roseofsharon]

AG's injuries revisited. It sounds very personal, imo.

http://www.hamiltonnews.com/news/lynden-honours-audrey-gleave/

 

[LeftCoaster]

Or she had an unwanted houseguest preventing her from doing so?

So, iirc, AG's final email is December 27th approx. 6:00 p.m. to LF.

imo

http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/2011/01/04/its-all-so-horrifying

^ This article has bothered me from the first time I read it, a week after the killing. It felt very staged, considering other reports published at that time.

[LV] said she last saw Gleave Dec. 27.

"She was here Boxing Day but was feeling under-the-weather," she said.

"I took some soup out to her on Monday morning and that was the last time I saw her."

[LV] said she was told by police investigators that Gleave had sent an e-mail to a friend on the night of Dec. 27.

So, LV is on the record as having been the one to herself take the soup to Audrey on December 27. We know Audrey was expecting company, borne out by the email message sent to PK. Also on the record. We know that that guest was uneasy around the dogs (although, from the look of it, who of Audrey's friends wasn't uneasy around the dogs?), so it follows that Audrey would confine them to their crates before heading to greet her visitor - or her visitor came in.

Analysis of Audrey's stomach contents would be interesting, but unfortunately for us, that information is not available, along with the estimated time of death. In the absence of those details, I speculate as to how they might add up with the facts we do have.

The visitor "was told," by investigators, about an email being sent on Monday evening from Audrey to a friend. That revelation can be taken a few different ways. Given the investigators' erratic fashion around over-divulging on some parts and withholding others, it looks to me - MOO! - as though some canvassing was going on as to who knew what about Audrey's activity following the 'soup drop.' Then, there's this:

[LV] said that Gleave always worried about strangers getting her e-mail address.

She said that Gleave was so private that she never mentioned that she had another friend in Brantford who lived in the same neighbourhood as [LV].

again, BBM.

Those seem, to me anyway, to be really strange comments to throw in while discussing something as horrific as your long-time friend's murder, especially when it has turned out that you are the executor of her estate, and on the record as very likely the last person to have seen her alive.

Journalists can, and do, slant their reporting to reflect attitudes of the publication, and editors can finish the job, as well. I wonder whether Vincent Ball smelled any rats, JMO. Or if LE was looking for information and hoping someone would speak up.

Food for thought.

 

[roseofsharon]

Unless LV made a pot of soup from scratch the morning of December 27th, I never did understand why the soup wasn't given to AG when she left LV's on December 26th, as it was a known fact she wasn't feeling well that day.

It's hard to believe A would not have a can of soup in her home.

Then, AG feels well enough to take the dogs to the vet, but emails a person in the coffee group to say she would not be at the Wednesday get together.

PK apparently was aware AG was under the weather before Christmas Day, as she asked him to wait until Thursday to deliver the cake. IIRC, in the video at the funeral home, PK mentions they (he and AK) were going to stop by Christmas Day.

imo