CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #8

[Chorley8]

http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/2011/01/04/its-all-so-horrifying

^ This article has bothered me from the first time I read it, a week after the killing. It felt very staged, considering other reports published at that time.



So, LV is on the record as having been the one to herself take the soup to Audrey on December 27. We know Audrey was expecting company, borne out by the email message sent to PK. Also on the record. We know that that guest was uneasy around the dogs (although, from the look of it, who of Audrey's friends wasn't uneasy around the dogs?), so it follows that Audrey would confine them to their crates before heading to greet her visitor - or her visitor came in.

Analysis of Audrey's stomach contents would be interesting, but unfortunately for us, that information is not available, along with the estimated time of death. In the absence of those details, I speculate as to how they might add up with the facts we do have.

The visitor "was told," by investigators, about an email being sent on Monday evening from Audrey to a friend. That revelation can be taken a few different ways. Given the investigators' erratic fashion around over-divulging on some parts and withholding others, it looks to me - MOO! - as though some canvassing was going on as to who knew what about Audrey's activity following the 'soup drop.' Then, there's this:



again, BBM.

Those seem, to me anyway, to be really strange comments to throw in while discussing something as horrific as your long-time friend's murder, especially when it has turned out that you are the executor of her estate, and on the record as very likely the last person to have seen her alive.

Journalists can, and do, slant their reporting to reflect attitudes of the publication, and editors can finish the job, as well. I wonder whether Vincent Ball smelled any rats, JMO. Or if LE was looking for information and hoping someone would speak up.

Food for thought.

Vanstone said she hasn't been able to sleep since investigators told her what happened to her friend.

"She was an eccentric, eclectic individual and very private," Vanstone said. "Private in a very big way.

"All of the times I visited her, I think I was only in her house once.

"Usually, we sat on a bench outside the house where we would talk."

Vanstone said that Gleave always worried about strangers getting her e-mail address.

She said that Gleave was so private that she never mentioned that she had another friend in Brantford who lived in the same neighbourhood as Vanstone.

Vanstone described Gleave as an intelligent and caring person.

"She was kind and caring and did not ever want to be the focus of attention," Vanstone said. "She was very much a recluse especially in the last few years.

"She loved to talk about recipes, computers, cars, animals, Suduko, TV programs and other mind-boggling things that were over my head. She was unique, giving and a stickler for being on time."

Among Gleave's friends were members of her Wednesday morning coffee group of retired teachers, Vanstone said.

Gleave was an avid golfer with many golfing buddies, Vanstone said.

Gleave lived for her two German Shepherds, her shopping trips to Costco (her favourite store) and summer drives in her racy Chevy Camaro, she added.

"She loved her dogs but I never really trusted them," Vanstone said. "They were always kind of roaming around when I was there and when we sat and talked I didn't dare get up suddenly or make any quick movements."

Gleave had no children. And Vanstone said she believes that Gleave had not spoken to her former husband, who lives in Sturgeon Falls, for years.

Wednesday's memorial likely will draw a lot of people from the area, said Vanstone.

"It has been hard to focus on anything," she said. "It's all so disturbing."

OK superb post not in order:

1. no children husband out of the way - from teller of the tale's point of view no other heirs maybe anxious of the child aspect . Why does everyone know Audrey has not spoken to her ex?

2. Memorial lots of people sounds a bit anxious.

3. Dogs didn't trust them rationalization as to why they had to be caged and drugged (?)

4. Racy car (bugs her) (wants it)

5. Note mentions "recipes" (stollen cake coincidence?) computers (Amazing Grace of courses) (note these are the first two things mentioned AND play part in crime)

6. Yes friend in neighborhood realizes that is a problem so expresses fake incredulity

7. Only in house once not sure just weird.

8. Can't sleep I believe here ok is that the real reason? O/W seems all too cool about it IMO.

9. Private = privates = privates in a big way

10. doesn't ask who would care if a stranger got your email address? Why would they want to contact you if a stranger?

 

[Sillybilly]

Anyone else find it odd that Audrey was said to have put foil on her windows to block the sun's rays, but that the window we saw the foil on was the big patio door on the north side of the house? When I do a Google Earth 360 degree view, that patio door is shaded at all times.

Just another mild observation ..

AG went to LV's every Sunday for coffee ... AG was known to sit outside with neighbours on the bench and have coffee, AG went to a coffee group each week at Williams Fresh Café (okay, may have had something other than coffee), but PK said to the effect that, in all his visits, she never served him coffee or watched TV with him.

 

[Chorley8]

Anyone else find it odd that Audrey was said to have put foil on her windows to block the sun's rays, but that the window we saw the foil on was the big patio door on the north side of the house? When I do a Google Earth 360 degree view, that patio door is shaded at all times.

Sillybilly this comment and comment on bags in Sharin Keenan case you have a crazily informative eye very useful here!

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Random thoughts/questions tossed out for consideration:

- why was LV told by LE that Audrey sent an e-mail later on the 27th
- did Audrey have an answering machine to pick up the handyman's phone call/message about being late for the cake delivery
- perhaps LV's soup was indeed homemade from scratch hence, LV needed to wait one more day
- does anyone think that Audrey was held in her own home with the killer(s) from the night of the 27th until the murder (I'm leaning that way)
- did LE/pathologists even do a tox screen and a stomach contents test

Then we have motive. What was it?

And we have the facts:
- no forced entry
- Audrey (most likely) knew her killer(s)
- 'young and close' likely according to LE

The car:
- is impossible to hot-wire (and one would think that car thieves would know that)
- the moment the car would have been touched/brushed against a bit roughly, its alarm system would have let out loud blasts of the horn
- did Audrey have General Motors turn off the alarm system and, if so, have LE asked GM about that
- was the interior little red light flashing on the upper dashboard to warn off potential thieves that "this car is armed and the horn will honk until stopped"
- where were Audrey's car keys

:twocents:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoted from SB's post above:

AG went to LV's every Sunday for coffee ... AG was known to sit outside with neighbours on the bench and have coffee, AG went to a coffee group each week at Williams Fresh Café (okay,may have had something other than coffee), but PK said to the effect that, in all his visits, she never served him coffee or watched TV with him.


Perhaps the answer is incredibly simplistic - perhaps Audrey didn't have a coffee maker and prefered to have her coffee out. And perhaps Audrey prefered to chat with PK rather than watching TV.

:twocents:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Apologies for too many in a row here, but I'm on a roll::blushing:

Ponder This:

What if Audrey was killed because of 'hatred of female ballsiness'? I'm referring to the racy, hot car.

I've had people say to me - you drive like a man; why do you need such a hot sports car; what are you trying to prove with that car; isn't a small compact car with four cylinders good enough for you.......on and on.

My answer might be similar to Audrey's answer - I started getting 'addicted' to the Indianapolis races when I was a young child and since then I drive only racing GM cars. 'Vettes only.

Was Audrey Gleave brutally murdered out of pure jealousy? Confusion of male/female activities? A fixed notion of how 'ladies must behave'?

:twocents:

 

[roseofsharon]

Vanstone said she hasn't been able to sleep since investigators told her what happened to her friend.

"She was an eccentric, eclectic individual and very private," Vanstone said. "Private in a very big way.

"All of the times I visited her, I think I was only in her house once.

"Usually, we sat on a bench outside the house where we would talk."

Vanstone said that Gleave always worried about strangers getting her e-mail address.

She said that Gleave was so private that she never mentioned that she had another friend in Brantford who lived in the same neighbourhood as Vanstone.

Vanstone described Gleave as an intelligent and caring person.

"She was kind and caring and did not ever want to be the focus of attention," Vanstone said. "She was very much a recluse especially in the last few years.

"She loved to talk about recipes, computers, cars, animals, Suduko, TV programs and other mind-boggling things that were over my head. She was unique, giving and a stickler for being on time."

Among Gleave's friends were members of her Wednesday morning coffee group of retired teachers, Vanstone said.

Gleave was an avid golfer with many golfing buddies, Vanstone said.

Gleave lived for her two German Shepherds, her shopping trips to Costco (her favourite store) and summer drives in her racy Chevy Camaro, she added.

"She loved her dogs but I never really trusted them," Vanstone said. "They were always kind of roaming around when I was there and when we sat and talked I didn't dare get up suddenly or make any quick movements."

Gleave had no children. And Vanstone said she believes that Gleave had not spoken to her former husband, who lives in Sturgeon Falls, for years.

Wednesday's memorial likely will draw a lot of people from the area, said Vanstone.

"It has been hard to focus on anything," she said. "It's all so disturbing."

OK superb post not in order:

1. no children husband out of the way - from teller of the tale's point of view no other heirs maybe anxious of the child aspect . Why does everyone know Audrey has not spoken to her ex?

2. Memorial lots of people sounds a bit anxious.

3. Dogs didn't trust them rationalization as to why they had to be caged and drugged (?)

4. Racy car (bugs her) (wants it)

5. Note mentions "recipes" (stollen cake coincidence?) computers (Amazing Grace of courses) (note these are the first two things mentioned AND play part in crime)

6. Yes friend in neighborhood realizes that is a problem so expresses fake incredulity

7. Only in house once not sure just weird.

8. Can't sleep I believe here ok is that the real reason? O/W seems all too cool about it IMO.

9. Private = privates = privates in a big way

10. doesn't ask who would care if a stranger got your email address? Why would they want to contact you if a stranger?

Not to mention, an email address can be changed through your internet provider. AG would have known that for sure!

imo

 

[Sillybilly]

We know AG was stabbed, but LE did not release the details regarding the weapon used.

<rsbm>

But we have an indication that two separate weapons were used:

from:
http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2215939-who-is-audrey-gleave/

Hrab did not reveal additional pieces of the picture, details only the killer would know, what investigators call “hold-back evidence.”

He spoke of a vicious stabbing but did not talk about other weapons — at least one other had been used — or the nature of the “sexual component” (it had included a perverse act that went beyond a conventional assault; the killer had taken something from the victim as though making off with a souvenir.)

 

[Sillybilly]

Not to mention, an email address can be changed through your internet provider. AG would have known that for sure!

imo

Also, the timestamp of sending an email can be spoofed but it can likely be checked out further to determine the real time. Tons of hits on google in this regard (many/most too complex for billy's brain):

https://www.google.ca/#q=change+the+time+of+an+email

 

[dotr]

Anyone else find it odd that Audrey was said to have put foil on her windows to block the sun's rays, but that the window we saw the foil on was the big patio door on the north side of the house? When I do a Google Earth 360 degree view, that patio door is shaded at all times.

Just another mild observation ..

AG went to LV's every Sunday for coffee ... AG was known to sit outside with neighbours on the bench and have coffee, AG went to a coffee group each week at Williams Fresh Café (okay, may have had something other than coffee), but PK said to the effect that, in all his visits, she never served him coffee or watched TV with him.

Looking for reasons a person might put foil on a window and came across these answers, including one very odd comment that could apply here.Scroll down to a little more than half way . M at 12.04 a.m...

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1906244

 

[dotr]

Thanks this is important just to emphasize that. I agree (not 100% sure of course) with the houseguest idea. I do think the most probable thing is that Audrey was held hostage for info stashed money or gold and especially the will and the AG emails are signals. I think she told them where to go hence ( I am guessing) increasing violence.

I would love to know whether the injuries support the idea of a beating/torture followed by more severe injuries that could leave to death or a lethal wound.

I have nowhere to go with the following but just to say I have a fully developed theory of the murder that involves that out towards St. Catherines way suspect and a fiance of someone mentioned in the recent email - not as perps but as older family members of the kids setting up the murder and benefiting from it.

We have to speak generally so 1. someone involved with the last bequest + 2. someone who would benefit from the property NOT the house per se but long term I bet something is up with plans for the extensive land around her house. 3. that email recipient.

There is a link between St. Catherines (not St. Catherines but out that way) and 'across the road' sorry to have to write like this this I know for sure but can't spell it out here.

Curious about the connection to the SC area you referred to and wondering if it has anything to do with a ranch ?

 

[roseofsharon]

So AG had central air installed, but would rather not run it, in order to conserve energy and purchases a convection oven, but doesn't get an opportunity to use it (why not? ... it was installed in November).

Were these items purchased at someone elses request?

Was AG going to sell her home privately to someone she knew?

AG would have saved a lot of money in real estate commission through a private sale.

IMO

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

So AG had central air installed, but would rather not run it, in order to conserve energy and purchases a convection oven, but doesn't get an opportunity to use it (why not? ... it was installed in November).

Were these items purchased at someone elses request?

Was AG going to sell her home privately to someone she knew?

AG would have saved a lot of money in real estate commission through a private sale.

IMO

Very good questions, ROS. Purchased 'at someone else's request'? My sense is that Audrey wanted/deserved a good/comfortable life and bought what she wanted.......perhaps with the thought of selling her house later with these items included.

It's strange that the convection oven remained unused. But, really how can we be certain that it was never used? I don't recall anything in MSM or said by LE that the convection oven was never put to use. Am I wrong about that?

BTW: (Hope this isn't against the rules) I hope everyone is doing OK in this extreme ice storm. :seeya:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoted from Chorley's post way above:

Gleave lived for her two German Shepherds, her shopping trips to Costco (her favourite store) and summer drives in her racy Chevy Camaro, she added.


Finally this hit me - SUMMER DRIVES! Did Audrey not drive the Camaro in the ice/snow of our Canadian winters? Did she have snow tires stored away at her GM dealership? Or stored in her own garage? (Those tires are big and heavy).

Now, IF she refrained from taking her car out in really bad weather (yes, I know she went to the Vet shortly before she was last heard from but the weather wasn't as bad that day as it can get in Southern Ontario) HOW did Audrey get groceries, supplies, dog foods, etc?

:twocents:

 

[colette]

I don't think there was anything about another car, no second car was seen in the press being taken to LE garages. I think Audrey drove her car year round but took long scenic drives in the summer.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I don't think there was anything about another car, no second car was seen in the press being taken to LE garages. I think Audrey drove her car year round but took long scenic drives in the summer.

I didn't mean that Audrey had two cars - Camaro for good weather and another car for winter conditions. I should have been clearer :blushing: . My mistake. :blushing:

What I meant was - did Audrey have a grocery delivery service in winter; did a friend drive her shopping in winter; did a grocer who knew her from years of service take down her orders and then deliver the goods, etc.

Sorry for my poor wording..........:doh:

------------------------------

ETA: This is why I asked about winter driving a Camaro:

[video=youtube;rUD8K_6uXDs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUD8K_6uXDs[/video]

 

[roseofsharon]

I wonder how new the ride-em lawn mower and flat screen tv were, as I would think these items would have been delivered.

Trying to figure out how many strangers were at 3401 Indian Trail in the few months leading up to AG's murder.

imo


http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2216816-audrey-s-story-continues/

 

[Paragirl]

Very good questions, ROS. Purchased 'at someone else's request'? My sense is that Audrey wanted/deserved a good/comfortable life and bought what she wanted.......perhaps with the thought of selling her house later with these items included.

It's strange that the convection oven remained unused. But, really how can we be certain that it was never used? I don't recall anything in MSM or said by LE that the convection oven was never put to use. Am I wrong about that?

BTW: (Hope this isn't against the rules) I hope everyone is doing OK in this extreme ice storm. :seeya:

I haven't been following Audrey's story too closely until recently when I started reading back through the old threads. I just finished reading through a whole pile of old newspaper articles about this case as well, and recalled reading something about the convection oven, so I went back and found it. It's also just speculation also on the part of Jon Wells...

Still, she allowed herself some indulgences: a ride-on lawn mower, the flat-screen TVs and a new wall-mounted convection oven, one she likely never had the chance to use.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2216816-audrey-s-story-continues/

I also realized in reading through all the threads that Dudley Collins is the vet who euthanised one of my dogs years ago. He used to make house calls and did in fact come out to our home to put our dog down. My in-laws have buried a number of their pets in the cemetery he owned and operated. My MIL is quite fond of him and has developed a pretty close rapport with him over the years. Small world...

 

[2soccermom]

hi Paragirl --
welcome. You may likely know this already -- but I'm terribly sorry if not: Dudley Collins passed away in July 2012. There are some brief but lovely tributes below his obit here:
http://www.lifenews.ca/announcement/1868380-collins-g-dudley

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Some possible answers to ROS' question:

Strangers at Audrey's house ----->

- TV guy (delivery and hook-up)
- mailbox smasher
- A/C installation guy
- lawn mower delivery guy
- convection oven guy
- people hanging around the cemetery
- male (??) seen walking up her driveway with a backpack
- mail man/woman

Anyone else...........