CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #8

[Paragirl]

AG emailed PK on Dec 27 that she would meet with the coffee klatch on Wednesday Dec 29, but then reportedly emailed someone in the group to say that she wouldn't make it. I wonder if she specified in the email that it was due to illness. It hasn't been mentioned anywhere but I also wonder if anyone checked on her that Wednesday.

I think I saw this discussed in earlier threads - do we know if the garage was heated or not?

 

[Paragirl]

I'm inclined to believe that the Dec 27 afternoon visit to Dudley Collins didn't take place, and was in fact prior to Christmas as has been discussed.

From the HPS website:

Gleave was last seen alive on the morning of Monday 27th December 2010 when she was visited by a friend.

http://www.hamiltonpolice.on.ca/HPS/CrimeFiles/Help+Us+Solve+This+Crime/gleave.htm

ETA: I take this to mean that LE confirmed that LV did actually see AG on Dec 27 - as opposed to leaving soup at the door

 

[Snoopster]

I'm inclined to believe that the Dec 27 afternoon visit to Dudley Collins didn't take place, and was in fact prior to Christmas as has been discussed.

From the HPS website:



http://www.hamiltonpolice.on.ca/HPS/CrimeFiles/Help+Us+Solve+This+Crime/gleave.htm

ETA: I take this to mean that LE confirmed that LV did actually see AG on Dec 27 - as opposed to leaving soup at the door

I also believe that AG saw DC the week prior to Christmas. I believe that it was quoted incorrectly in the media. If this is true, this means that the last people to see AG alive were either LV or PK. <modsnip>

Who sent that final email? Was AG alive at the time? Was she planning on going to her regular coffee group meeting or did someone send that email to throw everyone off?

 

[Paragirl]

I wonder if Audrey had a personalized license plate, and if so, what it said. ETA: I see people driving around with personalized tags that include their initials and surname etc. I have often thought that this seems a bit dangerous. If someone decided to follow you home for whatever reason (they like your car, think you're attractive, other sinister intentions), they now have your name AND your address.

 

[roseofsharon]

Just a bit of review from Jon Well's story in the Spec
" After Christmas, she felt under the weather. Monday morning, Dec. 27, AG emailed PK and declared she would make her Wednesday coffee meeting come hell or high water. LV brought her soup.

Monday afternoon she loaded Togi and Schatze into the Camaro and visited veterinarian DC in Ancaster to pick up vitamins for the German shepherds. She let the dogs run on his property as usual. She gave him a hug when she left, as she often did.

Later that day, at about 6 p.m., she emailed a friend, LF. She forwarded LF the same music video she had sent PK that morning. " <all full names snipped>

So, IMO it's pretty clear that AG visited the vet after the soup was delivered on the Monday and before she sent the music video to LF.

Also there's been a lot of talk about where the bench would have been. According to this article- AG had a double car garage- that would have meant that there was a lot of room for a bench.
" He walked to the twin automatic garage doors outside.

He punched in the code on the keypad. The door rose. The Camaro was parked in its usual spot, both its doors closed.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2216816-audrey-s-story-continues/

If we listen to PK being interviewed outside the funeral parlour, iirc, he says he and AK were going to visit AG on Christmas Day with the cake, but she hadn't been feeling well, so they decided on Thursday for the visit.

Yet, JW says AG wasn't feeling well AFTER Christmas.

Wonder which is correct?

The link will not come up with the interview with PK.

 

[Woodland]

I love the various 'AG was ill' story lines. The video that won't open shows PK choking/stumbling/struggling over when he knew AG was ill.

The only 'ill' story I lean towards believing is from LV's friend 'Suzy', who seems to me had nothing to hide nor felt she was putting anyone in a bad position when she said (paraphrasing) that AG was expected to beg off from attending LV's Christmas Day or Christmas Eve by 'claiming' to be ill. This thought/expectation was in advance of the get-together LV planned.

 

[MsSherlock]

I'm inclined to believe that the Dec 27 afternoon visit to Dudley Collins didn't take place, and was in fact prior to Christmas as has been discussed.

From the HPS website:



http://www.hamiltonpolice.on.ca/HPS/CrimeFiles/Help+Us+Solve+This+Crime/gleave.htm

ETA: I take this to mean that LE confirmed that LV did actually see AG on Dec 27 - as opposed to leaving soup at the door

Paragirl, I would tend to agree with you, but IMO, JW is a very well respected journalist. His article was written in September/11, and the Police report was Feb/11. Not that LE aren't right, but IMHO, I can't see JW making that mistake. IMO he would have interviewed DC to confirm his dates. MOO

 

[MsSherlock]

I love the various 'AG was ill' story lines. The video that won't open shows PK choking/stumbling/struggling over when he knew AG was ill.

The only 'ill' story I lean towards believing is from LV's friend 'Suzy', who seems to me had nothing to hide nor felt she was putting anyone in a bad position when she said (paraphrasing) that AG was expected to beg off from attending LV's Christmas Day or Christmas Eve by 'claiming' to be ill. This thought/expectation was in advance of the get-together LV planned.

I'm with you Woodland. Actually, always tend to cut PK slack. IMO, PK is such a scientific tech guy, that his awkwardness and nervousness of being the person who found AG and in then in the centre of everything is reflected in his demeanor. IIRC, he wasn't that old when all this happened. I've watched his vid's over and over and all I can really see is trauma in his eyes. IMO, if it was myself, I don't know how I'd come across. Kind of reminds me of LB's mom- she's always giving little smiles or grins. I think it's how they cope with horrific stress.
Was AG really ill? That's the million dollar question. IMO, if in fact JW is correct and there was a visit to DC that day, then I have to assume that she wasn't that ill and there could have been another reason why she didn't want people to come around, just like she didn't want to go to LV on Christmas, or PK to stop by on Christmas day. Perhaps she had company and that's why she delayed PK until Thursday. I agree that Suzy's accounting is credible. I'm thinking that LE just didn't update their report. MOO

 

[Woodland]

Read the portion of JW's 'Dark Shadows' that can be found on-line - in that version of events, JW states (paraphrasing) that AG went to see her vet 'around' Dec 22 - the day of or soon after her last coffee group visit.
He's now given two versions of this visit - just like the vet.

Unfortunately, the only version that AG did not want company on Christmas Day is from PK, along with he wanted and had time to stop at AG's on Christmas Day.

 

[Paragirl]

I wish we had more info to work with. For example - finances!!!! I've read discussions about this in earlier threads and read over some of those posts again last night. PK gave us some info about the condition of AG's estate when she passed.

I've seen some compelling theories discussed and now I'm asking myself, WHERE did her money GO?

It seems she worked steadily for all of her adult life, had no kids, didn't travel, didn't appear to spend extravagantly (other than her flashy car), was reportedly FRUGAL (not using her AC etc), so WHAT did she spend all her earnings on? If the house was left to her by her ex when they split, what expenses did she have? I find it baffling that she only had approximately $50k in personal assets and a house worth $415k? Did she contribute to RRSPs in addition to her teacher's pension?

Did she stash cash in her home? It's been stated that she mostly paid for things with cash and made large cash withdrawals of hundreds of dollars at a time. Was she hiding it away? If so, where did it go? Did LE find cash in the home? Was this part of the reason she protected her home/privacy? Did someone know it was there?

How much is a brand new Camaro?

 

[Paragirl]

I love the various 'AG was ill' story lines. The video that won't open shows PK choking/stumbling/struggling over when he knew AG was ill.

The only 'ill' story I lean towards believing is from LV's friend 'Suzy', who seems to me had nothing to hide nor felt she was putting anyone in a bad position when she said (paraphrasing) that AG was expected to beg off from attending LV's Christmas Day or Christmas Eve by 'claiming' to be ill. This thought/expectation was in advance of the get-together LV planned.

Me too. That and the "I've a fever" email IF it was sent by AG.

 

[Woodland]

I wish we had more info to work with. For example - finances!!!! I've read discussions about this in earlier threads and read over some of those posts again last night. PK gave us some info about the condition of AG's estate when she passed.

I've seen some compelling theories discussed and now I'm asking myself, WHERE did her money GO?

It seems she worked steadily for all of her adult life, had no kids, didn't travel, didn't appear to spend extravagantly (other than her flashy car), was reportedly FRUGAL (not using her AC etc), so WHAT did she spend all her earnings on? If the house was left to her by her ex when they split, what expenses did she have? I find it baffling that she only had approximately $50k in personal assets and a house worth $415k? Did she contribute to RRSPs in addition to her teacher's pension?

Did she stash cash in her home? It's been stated that she mostly paid for things with cash and made large cash withdrawals of hundreds of dollars at a time. Was she hiding it away? If so, where did it go? Did LE find cash in the home? Was this part of the reason she protected her home/privacy? Did someone know it was there?

How much is a brand new Camaro?

With all due respect - who says the money AG worked for all her life went anywhere?

It was there when the Will was probated - whatever 'it' consisted of. Just because $50K was reported in the probate docs does not, imo, denote that AG had a measly $50K in cash when she was killed. Preposterous imo.

What would work from an executor of a Will from someone that has been murdered (single and no family is ideal) is - 'OMG I can't find any bank records, OMG I don't where my friend of 30 years banked, OMG I ran around town looking for an account(s) and finally found one that had $50K. OMG I guess that is all she had unless something turns up later. Jmo.

Also for clarification - ex-hubby did not leave AG a paid for house. This is fact according to the Land Registry docs. She got the house in the divorce - which was her choice, and bought him out - as opposed to the choice of selling the house and splitting the proceeds. She had a mortgage for a period of time - like 20 years.

None of the above is from PK - it comes from public docs. If you buy a house, anything and everything is public, should one choose to look for the info.

AG was a smart gal, real smart - she bought a new Camaro and left herself with $50K to live on? Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot if there ever was one, imo.

Close - young and old. Imo.

 

[Paragirl]

With all due respect - who says the money AG worked for all her life went anywhere?

It was there when the Will was probated - whatever 'it' consisted of. Just because $50K was reported in the probate docs does not, imo, denote that AG had a measly $50K in cash when she was killed. Preposterous imo.

What would work from an executor of a Will from someone that has been murdered (single and no family is ideal) is - 'OMG I can't find any bank records, OMG I don't where my friend of 30 years banked, OMG I ran around town looking for an account(s) and finally found one that had $50K. OMG I guess that is all she had unless something turns up later. Jmo.

Also for clarification - ex-hubby did not leave AG a paid for house. This is fact according to the Land Registry docs. She got the house in the divorce - which was her choice, and bought him out - as opposed to the choice of selling the house and splitting the proceeds. She had a mortgage for a period of time - like 20 years.

None of the above is from PK - it comes from public docs. If you buy a house, anything and everything is public, should one choose to look for the info.

AG was a smart gal, real smart - she bought a new Camaro and left herself with $50K to live on? Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot if there ever was one, imo.

Close - young and old. Imo.

BBM

I guess... it's possible that there wasn't any other savings/money and I did wonder if there might have been a mortgage on AG's house. Even so, personally I find it odd.

As you have stated, AG was a smart woman. I am decades younger than AG, been a single mom to two kids (for almost 16 years now), and have a mortgage. I make less than AG would have made in her teaching positions (I know what an HWDSB teacher made/makes, give or take, because there are 3 of them in my family of varying ages and experience) and at this stage in my life I have more in RRSPs/savings than AG reportedly had at the time of her death (granted I don't have the same amount in home equity - but then I'm decades behind AG).

 

[Paragirl]

Woodland I think I just realized that I misread your post...lol

So are you saying there likely was other money in the estate that just wasn't necessarily disclosed?

 

[Woodland]

AG's property sold for $450K after she was killed in 2010 - that has nothing to do with the value she paid for it starting in the mid 70's.

Seems we might be in accord as far as AG's savings go?

 

[Paragirl]

AG's property sold for $450K after she was killed in 2010 - that has nothing to do with the value she paid for it starting in the mid 70's.

Seems we might be in accord as far as AG's savings go?

Yes, now that I have yanked my head out - I believe we are!

 

[Woodland]

Woodland I think I just realized that I misread your post...lol

So are you saying there likely was other money in the estate that just wasn't necessarily disclosed?

YeeeAAAAhhh. Why would the judge care if there was more than $50K? He/she rubber stamped it without probing into details, according to the lawyer that provided me with the copy of AG's Will. Not impressive given the circumstances.

 

[Paragirl]

YeeeAAAAhhh. Why would the judge care if there was more than $50K? He/she rubber stamped it without probing into details, according to the lawyer that provided me with the copy of AG's Will. Not impressive given the circumstances.

Not sure, I don't really know much about probate law/wills & estates.... I also had no idea that there was a copy of the will available. Is it linked somewhere?

Hm. So maybe there is no mysteriously disappearing savings.

 

[Woodland]

It is linked. Thread 3 and or 4.

 

[Paragirl]

It is linked. Thread 3 and or 4.

I'm thinking maybe the link to the Will was removed when some of the threads were pulled for review. I see all the posts about it, but couldn't find the doc itself.