CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #9

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Totally agree. She knew her killer well.

 

[deugirtni]

No sign of forced entry, AFAIK.... so... if only AG and one other person knew the code.... one of them must've opened the door... I'm sure LE must've tested for prints, etc.. and DNA, and shoe prints in the presumably dusty/dirty(?) garage.. ?

I believe AG was under the impression she was going into the garage to visit with a friend, because she had her coat on. I doubt if she would've put her coat on just to answer the door. Unless she had been expecting someone and waiting for them to arrive. And if it was someone just randomly knocking at the door, or the interior garage door, I can't see her answering it while her dogs are locked inside the house.. she would want them to do their jobs in protecting her. Imho, she felt she didn't need protection from her dogs.

I would love to know more.. ie.. how long do stomach contents stay in the stomach after death, ie can the ME tell what was the last thing AG ate even if it was 2.5 days earlier, if the body is no longer digesting (because it is dead)? Was the last thing..... soup??? Was the soup container found on the premises? Full? Empty? Partially eaten?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Just my gut feeling here but I think AG knew who was there so she just threw a coat on to meet the person in the garage. In late December, it would have been quite dark from about 4pm onwards. And cold.
Did she order cold meds from a pharmacy? PK said she never took medicines.
Why didn’t LE indicate a time of death? What’s the motive for her murder? Do her acquaintances have solid alibis for the time in which she was killed?

 

[deugirtni]

I think she knew who was there as well. I doubt if she would put on her coat just to accept an expected delivery of whatever. Knowing that AG didn't like people in her home, it seems more likely (to me) that she was looking to have a visit in the garage with a friend, rather than inviting the person in. Considering that her friend had already had AG over for dinner, and then brought her soup, it seems like it probably wasn't that friend. I think LE has estimated AG's time of date to sometime on the Monday evening? But is that based on the email sent to a neighbour, which is wondered about as far as who really sent it? Or is it based on autopsy results? I'm not sure how difficult it would be to pinpoint a TOD for a body which has remained in likely freezing weather but protected from the elements? It would slow down decomposition, AFAIK? So why can't they guess the TOD more confidently? As far as alibis.. I recall police saying something to the effect of - that people are cooperating by speaking to police, but whether they're telling the truth is another story - I wonder who she was referring to?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I agree completely. We need a more definite TOD. And these alibis need to be airtight. I agree it wasn’t the person who brought the soup. I recall that PK took the cops on a tour of the house because he knew the house so well. That has never felt right to me. Why would LE allow him to do that? What are we missing?

 

[deugirtni]

I agree completely. We need a more definite TOD. And these alibis need to be airtight. I agree it wasn’t the person who brought the soup. I recall that PK took the cops on a tour of the house because he knew the house so well. That has never felt right to me. Why would LE allow him to do that? What are we missing?

I'm not so sure it wasn't the soup bearer.. because I think nobody saw AG after that, so that gives that person the status of being the last person to see AG alive.. which ... I believe is something which normally attracts police scrutiny in a murder case.. I wonder if there HAS been scrutiny in that aspect.. or was it pushed aside because of possible gender-bias, age-bias, and tunnel-vision regarding a homeless potential suspect?

I'm thinking normally..... people may have family who could let police know if anything appeared to be missing in a murder victim's home.. to let them know if the murder was in relation to a suspected robbery? But in this case.. the only person, it seems, who had any clue about what AG's home looked like inside, was PK. Perhaps it also would've given LE a chance to observe his reactions, etc.?

My guess is that the current investigators on the case could have the opportunity to go back in time, things may have been handled a lot differently... I think way too much weight was put into one possibility, at the expense of others, and now the opportunity to look at other avenues is mostly lost. imo.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Where is the soup bearer now? Do we know anything of the whereabouts?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Years ago, I tried to contact the cop who had an Ontario TV show called To Catch a Killer but I never heard back. All he did was cold cases.

 

[FromGermany1]

IIRC, there was (like for most of our theories!) dissent among us here on WS re: extent of suspicion on DM and co in Audrey's case. Some folks pointed out testimony in the Bosma case that the gang wasn't active in vehicle theft until 2011 (can we know that to be true??); another quoted testimony from the trial from MS who indicated they would walk in areas and "write down" potential addresses for later break-ins..... Maybe they followed Audrey's camaro home and then returned -? I'm pretty sure I recall that one poster commented that if AG had a secure system (like OnStar, as you say, NSU; might that actually have been you, posting? ) then maybe the theft was foiled but sadly Audrey had already confronted them.....

I agree that there may be better theories on the perp/s than this, but I wish LE would comment explicitly on whether DM and gang have been/are considered in this case, and whether evidence/alibi/reasoning may rule them out (or keep them in) for consideration.

Years ago I was thinking about the possibility, that AG knew perhaps MS' mother, as she had the same teacher education at a similar time (same school) and their surnames (Doveika + ?? forgotten, sorry) both sounded like from Eastern Europe, so they could have had a basis for meeting each other.
My links are all gone now. I have vague memories of it.

* The surname of MS' mother's maiden name began with "W" as far as I remember. Similar to Wieczinski or ????

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I'm sorry but I don't remember who DM and MS are. Sorry.

And PK told us that Audrey did not have OnStar working.

 

[Gina20]

I'm sorry but I don't remember who DM and MS are. Sorry.

And PK told us that Audrey did not have OnStar working.

Otto "Bunty" Loose was found because of OnStar.

Horrific murder details surface - Prince George Citizen

Stolen Vehicle Assistance Feature Information | OnStar

A Theft Alarm Notification* can inform you if your car alarm goes off.

Once law enforcement confirms your vehicle has been stolen, OnStar Advisors can utilize GPS technology to help authorities locate your vehicle and, when conditions are appropriate, remotely slow it down.* With Remote Ignition Block,™* OnStar can also remotely prevent a thief from restarting your vehicle. If your vehicle is stolen, Advisors can work with law enforcement to help you get your vehicle back quicker and safer.

The GPS can be activated remotely, whether or not the owner has maintained the subscription.

So it's unwise to steal these vehicles, or abduct/murder someone and leave a GPS trail, as Otto "Bunty" Loose's killer did. Police can intervene as they did in this case of a vulnerable senior, whether or not the system was activated.

 

[Gina20]

Cars with remote door openers can also have a key. Owners use this key when warming the vehicle up in the winter, to prevent driveway theft of their vehicle. In some cases it fits right into the key fob. Did Audrey's key fob contain a key when it was found after her murder (and was it found)?

Was OnStar asked by police to do a forensic examination of the car's last locations in the days before she was found?

The latest way to steal cars is by hacking the remote, right in the owner's driveway.

CityNews

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

FWIW, OnStar was “invented” by LE back when Corvettes were being used by drug dealers. Corvettes are fast and it was thought they could outrun the police. But with OnStar, police can remotely have a Corvette safely slowed down and stopped. It evolved from there.

 

[2soccermom]

I'm sorry but I don't remember who DM and MS are. Sorry.

And PK told us that Audrey did not have OnStar working.

Sorry, NSU -- DM refers to "Dellen Millard" and MS to "Mark Smich" from the Tim Bosma murder case. As we've mentioned, some of us continue to wonder if these convicted killers who murdered Tim for his truck could have some connection to Audrey's case.

 

[2soccermom]

The original Jon Wells (part 1) piece on Audrey and her case has been added in here: True Crime Series
I'm not able to access all 4 instalments, but if you're a TS subscriber, you can.

 

[dotr]

The original Jon Wells (part 1) piece on Audrey and her case has been added in here: True Crime Series
I'm not able to access all 4 instalments, but if you're a TS subscriber, you can.

This article was published on Sat., Sept. 17, 2011
Who is Audrey Gleave? | The Star
''Audrey Gleave had a premonition that her life would end violently, and as with many things in the brilliant woman’s life, she was correct. Quirky and reclusive, she was a retired high school teacher who had studied nuclear physics at McMaster University who lived alone for many years on a country road called Indian Trail outside Hamilton. Just after Christmas in 2010, the 74-year old’s body was found inside her keypad-protected garage, lying next to her Camaro, and with her two beloved German shepherds howling inside the house. Audrey had been savagely murdered, and there was, police said, a “sexual component” to the crime. Homicide detectives set their sights on a prime suspect, but was it a dead end? Hamilton Spectator feature writer Jon Wells, winner of four National Newspaper Awards and author of six books, investigated the murder mystery and wrote “Darkness on Indian Trail,” a four-part series about Audrey Gleave’s unusual life and brutal death.''

 

[Gina20]

This article was published on Sat., Sept. 17, 2011
Who is Audrey Gleave? | The Star
''Audrey Gleave had a premonition that her life would end violently, and as with many things in the brilliant woman’s life, she was correct. Quirky and reclusive, she was a retired high school teacher who had studied nuclear physics at McMaster University who lived alone for many years on a country road called Indian Trail outside Hamilton. Just after Christmas in 2010, the 74-year old’s body was found inside her keypad-protected garage, lying next to her Camaro, and with her two beloved German shepherds howling inside the house. Audrey had been savagely murdered, and there was, police said, a “sexual component” to the crime. Homicide detectives set their sights on a prime suspect, but was it a dead end? Hamilton Spectator feature writer Jon Wells, winner of four National Newspaper Awards and author of six books, investigated the murder mystery and wrote “Darkness on Indian Trail,” a four-part series about Audrey Gleave’s unusual life and brutal death.''

I have wondered about a lot of things over the years, including whether someone plagiarized Audrey's academic papers, or otherwise took credit for her work. That could have happened in her career at Chalk River, or shortly before she was murdered. She was a trailblazer back in the day, and still called herself "Baryon".

Baryon - Wikipedia.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Why were the « howling dogs » never noticed before PK got there? Why wasn’t PK alerted by them when he did get there? After calling 911, did PK go inside to quiet the dogs down? Did PK tell the 911 person about howling dogs? Maybe the killer was inside harming the dogs?

 

[Gina20]

Why were the « howling dogs » never noticed before PK got there? Why wasn’t PK alerted by them when he did get there? After calling 911, did PK go inside to quiet the dogs down? Did PK tell the 911 person about howling dogs? Maybe the killer was inside harming the dogs?

Were there any howling dogs on the 911 recording of said call?

 

[Catmommy]

Why were the « howling dogs » never noticed before PK got there? Why wasn’t PK alerted by them when he did get there? After calling 911, did PK go inside to quiet the dogs down? Did PK tell the 911 person about howling dogs? Maybe the killer was inside harming the dogs?

I don't recall any mention that the dogs were injured or howling, just very upset.