CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #9

[Paragirl]

Just for future reference, I have posted all links in the Media Thread. I often go back and review various articles/videos to refresh my memory.

Time is just ticking by...justice for Audrey seems so elusive


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[LambChop]

Once again, as a warning we need to stay away from sleuthing those who are not POI in the eyes of LE.

Regarding the items from the home found strewn about the yard outside. Why would someone who arrived in a car throw items around in the yard? To me it sounds as if someone left by foot and dropped the items while leaving. Was there snow on the ground? Were there footprints in the snow? What were the items, other than the saw, that were found?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Once again, as a warning we need to stay away from sleuthing those who are not POI in the eyes of LE.

Regarding the items from the home found strewn about the yard outside. Why would someone who arrived in a car throw items around in the yard? To me it sounds as if someone left by foot and dropped the items while leaving. Was there snow on the ground? Were there footprints in the snow? What were the items, other than the saw, that were found?

Would someone kindly remind me WHO the POI(s) are.

:tyou:

 

[dotr]

Would someone kindly remind me WHO the POI(s) are.

:tyou:

Hard to say...
bbm.


http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2...y-gleave-s-murder-and-neighbours-are-anxious/

" Police have never named a suspect or person of interest.

David Laurie Scott, 50, a homeless man who had been squatting in a barn several kilometres from Gleave’s home near Lynden, pleaded guilty to possession of a concealed weapon — a knife — last Thursday. He was sentenced to 10 days in jail and one year probation.

Hamilton homicide detectives have never identified Scott as a suspect or person of interest in the case, but were in the courtroom to monitor his bail hearing and court date"


From the book by J.W., a different suggestion.


http://books.google.ca/books?id=Hzi...s of interest in audrey gleave murder&f=false

 

[dotr]

Paraphrased ".... Reclusive lifestyle supports notion a stranger harmed her.."

Video..

http://www.chch.com/one-less-suspect-in-gleave-murder-mystery/

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoted from dotr's post above:

From the book by J.W., a different suggestion.


http://books.google.ca/books?id=HziY...murder&f=false

1. I have no idea why this "different suggestion" is not considered a POI.

2. And if we/some/whatever are going to go back to suggesting DLS is the killer then I'm going to have to give up.

3. It's pretty well been proven that Audrey was not killed by a stranger. (no forced entry.........)

:silenced: :websleuther: :silenced:

 

[LambChop]

Quoted from dotr's post above:

From the book by J.W., a different suggestion.


http://books.google.ca/books?id=HziY...murder&f=false

1. I have no idea why this "different suggestion" is not considered a POI.

2. And if we/some/whatever are going to go back to suggesting DLS is the killer then I'm going to have to give up.

3. It's pretty well been proven that Audrey was not killed by a stranger. (no forced entry.........)

:silenced: :websleuther: :silenced:

There are no POI's reported by LE at this time. No forced entry would not preclude a stranger getting into the home.....it just means no one forced their way into the garage according to LE's evidence. If she routinely smoked outside anything is possible.

I am just questioning the fact that items from the home were scattered (???) in the yard. That sounds more like someone breaking into a home and taking as much as their arms could hold and running off. jmo

 

[Paragirl]

It's possible it's as simple as:

It was late at night and AG was "in for the night" (as in, not planning on going back out to smoke) and the dogs were already penned up. She couldn't settle in and eventually decided to go have a smoke, but decided not to take the dogs because they were settled and crated/penned already, and she didn't want to stir things up. She went out to the garage and opened the door to let the smoke out and someone was either waiting (if they happened to already be scoping out her place), or just HAPPENED to be walking by (up her driveway? I think her place is set back quite far from the road) and seized the opportunity to ambush her in her garage, kill her, and possibly enter the house and take items which were later scattered around outside. The attacker then flees (on foot???) without leaving a trail of evidence behind...(that's an assumption on my part, I just figure that if there WAS a trail of evidence then LE would hopefully have some leads)?

This scenario could explain why the dogs weren't free, there was no forced entry, items were strewn about, and AG was in the garage with her coat on etc. It's possible.

Would a stranger be randomly wandering around on foot in a relatively rural area in the winter, and IMO, most likely at night (if it's a random attack in the garage) and then just happen upon AG under the perfect circumstances to attack her, and be brazen enough to not care if someone else was in the home who might come out and interrupt the attack? All the while AG's dogs would probably have been barking wildly in the house, and the attacker wouldn't necessarily know that they couldn't eventually free themselves. THEN to flee the scene on foot...to where? A nearby car maybe?

But WHY is the random attacker THERE, in Lynden, in the first place? At Christmas time? Casing the neighbourhood for homes whose occupants were away over the holidays? I imagine LE would have looked at any reported B&Es in the area around the time of AG's murder. If you had cased a neighbourhood to rob, wouldn't you be better prepared and at least arrive with a vehicle and a plan? I would hope I would be a better organized robber than to find myself running away from a scene with my arms full, dropping my spoils along the way 😜

If robbery WAS the motive, why the brutal sexual assault and beating/stabbing? And if it was robbery-gone-wrong, then why not just incapacitate the victim and flee? If it's a drug fueled robbery-gone-wrong, what the heck is the perp doing out there, and how did they get there, in the winter? And if the perp was a drug addict looking for a quick, poorly planned snatch-and-grab for cash for a fix, I can't see them making the trip out to Lynden.

It's an odd place to be wandering in the winter, for no particular reason IMO. WHO could have been out there hanging around and looking for a victim? The person seen walking up AG's driveway wearing a dark backpack? If the attack happened during the day, a utility worker servicing the area, a salesperson, delivery person? Someone 'lost' and looking for directions?

 

[deugirtni]

What do you mean when you say 'she seems happy and relaxed with whoever took it.'? It seems obvious to me that the photo is a 'selfie'. I wonder how MSM got their hands on it?

I didn't realize that there was still activity in this topic. It really really bothers me that nothing has come of this so far, investigation-wise. Seems like when the homeless man was released, LE gave up?

I was curious after reading some of the last few posts.. what made LE believe there were items missing from the home? Who would know, other than AG if there were items missing? Who told them? How did that person know? Was it in that person's interest to tell them so?

I will go one step further to state that whoever gave the Spec picture 1/4 of this article was somehow involved. In a million years, Audrey would not have wanted that pic posted on the internet and she seems happy and relaxed with whoever took it.

My 2 cents.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2123220-audrey-s-case-gets-colder/

ETA - Is it possible to find out who gave the media this picture?

 

[deugirtni]

I don't know if I'm allowed to float a potential theory here? If it is out of line, please delete.

I remember hating it at the time this was going on, when MSM would refer to AG as a recluse, when it was kind of obvious that she led a life that did have people in it, and she appeared to enjoy her life, and who is anyone in the media to say otherwise.

Considering that she was known to be so very private.. combined with her age and therefore the period of time in which she was raised and lived her adult life (mostly something to keep hidden for people in that era).. combined with apparently a few fast marriages.. combined with never ending up with a lifelong soulmate even though she was outgoing enough to land some previous marriages, nor having children.. combined with her interest in engineering (historically, hasn't engineering been more of a male domain?), and building a TV, etc... combined with her choice to continue to live in a secluded area, perfectly away from prying eyes.. it occurred to me that perhaps there was something in her life which she WAS hiding and keeping personal and secret from *everyone* that she knew. None of these things on its own, presents anything relevant or telling, but when combined all together...

Has the possibility ever been considered that AG may have been gay? Please don't misunderstand and feel that I am dissing anyone or anything, for I am not... but.. what if LE has never considered this, and therefore, has never considered looking into potential relationships in that regard. What if there *was* someone in her life, and known to the dogs, and had all the codes... I dont' know.. it was just an elusive thought that hit me and I wondered if it had ever been considered.

Aside from that.. I have to read back further, but I can't figure out why the general consensus here seems to believe that AG did not send that Amazing Grace email(s). What is so weird about that?

 

[dotr]

Deugirtni, glad you decided to pop on the thread with some very good ideas!
Early in the thread, the possibility of A being gay was brought up and it comes up again from time to time...
The possibility that A had a secret dating life, whether male or female, is a good one imo, I would not be surprised if A had a date, expected or otherwise, over the holidays.

 

[dotr]

What do you mean when you say 'she seems happy and relaxed with whoever took it.'? It seems obvious to me that the photo is a 'selfie'. I wonder how MSM got their hands on it?

I didn't realize that there was still activity in this topic. It really really bothers me that nothing has come of this so far, investigation-wise. Seems like when the homeless man was released, LE gave up?

I was curious after reading some of the last few posts.. what made LE believe there were items missing from the home? Who would know, other than AG if there were items missing? Who told them? How did that person know? Was it in that person's interest to tell them so?

Rbbm.

One of the " strewn items " LE might have been looking for, might be of a " perverse " nature, imo.... They might also be looking for one of the murder weapons.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2215939-who-is-audrey-gleave/

" Hrab did not reveal additional pieces of the picture, details only the killer would know, what investigators call “hold-back evidence.”
He spoke of a vicious stabbing but did not talk about other weapons — at least one other had been used — or the nature of the “sexual component” (it had included a perverse act that went beyond a conventional assault; the killer had taken something from the victim as though making off with a souvenir.) "

 

[deugirtni]

I understand there are several threads on AG? At first when told about that, I didn't understand why so many, but now that I have been around here (WS) a little longer, I see that the mods end a thread when it gets substantial, and start a new one. (I'm not sure why though, because it is more difficult to then find things??)

Anyway, I read thespec article posted above (thank you for the link, a very interesting article!). One thought did strike me right away. I'm sorry if this has been posted previously, I will have to find time to do some back-reading (hopefully I can locate all of the other threads!).

Regarding AG's illness.. mentioned in the email she wrote on Dec27th to .. presumably P. I would love to see the 'before' emails which were sent back and forth? (Are they available/posted anywhere?) Obviously she is updating a previous report she made to same, regarding her illness, as in 'by Sunday', meaning that the recipient had already been told of AG's illness. I'm wondering if AG was really sick at all.. ?? Or rather, was she instead creating a reason/excuse for why NOT to visit her?? Anyone she 'knew' would undoubtedly assume that she may be lonely during the holiday season (since she was such a 'recluse' you know), and therefore may be in need of visits to brighten her desolate holiday season... but perhaps she wasn't lonely, nor even alone at all, and instead, had a visitor staying whom she wanted no one to know about? Or.. even if not.. people use illness as a reason all the time for why they can't see someone they'd rather not see. Was there a reason why she wouldn't have wanted to see her friend P? (Was there an expectation of a seasonal tip or something, for work performed throughout the year?)

<modsnip>

"... two German shepherds who were so protective they would circle her as though forming a wall, barking and nipping at Phil no matter how many times he visited."

I am still confused about supposed things missing from the home, or did I misread something from previous WS posts? From thespec article referenced above, I read that "the killer had taken something from the victim, (BBM), as if making off with a souvenir", which I understand to be the perverse act referred to, meaning that the killer took a piece of AG, not something from her house. That is how I am reading that statement (pasted below). MOO. Are others reading this differently?

He spoke of a vicious stabbing but did not talk about other weapons — at least one other had been used — or the nature of the “sexual component” (it had included a perverse act that went beyond a conventional assault; the killer had taken something from the victim as though making off with a souvenir.)

 

[dotr]

Thread 1, 01-01-2011,


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...r-viciously-murdered-in-home-Ancaster-Ontario

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Thread 1, 01-01-2011,


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...r-viciously-murdered-in-home-Ancaster-Ontario

Well, yes. And what I have to look out for .... especially ....? :smile:

 

[dotr]

Well, yes. And what I have to look out for .... especially ....? :smile:

Seem to recall I posted that link for a new poster, but now do not remember for whom, or why, I posted that particular link!! Sorry.

:thinking:

 

[deugirtni]

dotr were you posting it for me to let me know why people are talking about things strewn on the property? I read the article but did not see any mention of that. TY!

Seem to recall I posted that link for a new poster, but now do not remember for whom, or why, I posted that particular link!! Sorry.

:thinking:

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Seem to recall I posted that link for a new poster, but now do not remember for whom, or why, I posted that particular link!! Sorry.

:thinking:

What a pity. I thought of something mysterious, you have just now discovered ... While I was reading (and searching :smile, I stumbled over the "pedestrian with backpack" (source: a neighbour of a neighbour) and the remark, a pedestrian would have been very exceptional in this area. Hhmmm.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

The way I see it, someone seems to be protecting the killer. There are NO POI's in this case? I'd like to know who's protecting/sheltering him/her and why.

Until we have named POI(s) in Audrey's murder, we seem to be at a loss here.

About the 'strewn items' - I feel that (other than the saw which LE bagged and tagged) the so-called 'strewn items' are of no real import.

We've discussed the weather, the snow, the fog, the rain, the entire weather situation on those days in 2010. Since there seems to be NO POI's there are no possible people (KILLERS) we should discuss.

This whole thing is giving me a bad feeling.............:silenced:

:dunno:

 

[dotr]

The way I see it, someone seems to be protecting the killer. There are NO POI's in this case? I'd like to know who's protecting/sheltering him/her and why.

Until we have named POI(s) in Audrey's murder, we seem to be at a loss here.

About the 'strewn items' - I feel that (other than the saw which LE bagged and tagged) the so-called 'strewn items' are of no real import.

We've discussed the weather, the snow, the fog, the rain, the entire weather situation on those days in 2010. Since there seems to be NO POI's there are no possible people (KILLERS) we should discuss.

This whole thing is giving me a bad feeling.............:silenced:

:dunno:

It is going to be a tough nut to crack unless someone comes forward with some info, according to this.. Scroll halfway down.

http://www.yorku.ca/yfile/archive/index.asp?Article=17152

&#8220;Generally, cases are not usually solved after something like this happens,&#8221; said Paul Brienza, director of York University&#8217;s criminology & sociology program [in the School of Public Policy & Administration, Faculty of Liberal Arts & Professional Studies].

When investigators spend months building a case around a particular suspect and then that case falls apart, it can be almost impossible to go back to the beginning, he said, adding that a considerable amount of time and resources have already been spent.

Barring a major break, such as a sudden DNA match or new eyewitness coming forward, these cases go cold and are not solved, Brienza said".