CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #9

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Sorry double post.

 

[Gina20]

The 'cake' was reportedly a request from AG herself, for her 'favorite cake', for which she even reportedly supplied the recipe. The particular recipe only has 1C of raisins and no other dried fruit, no alcohol. Personally, I was surprised at that particular recipe, only because it was out of a publication, rather than someone's treasured family recipe handed-down from generation to generation, or whatever. That part made that story a little less believable to me, personally. But perhaps AG didn't like things with dried fruit in them, who knows.. that may be why she may have chosen such a recipe for this particular stollen? It was PK's wife who was educated and presumably trained as a 'chef', and it seemed she was not too advanced in her career at the time, but although his wife may have known it was not 'cake', it is PK who is relaying the story to the public, and perhaps he is just going by what AG called it, as well as perhaps not really knowing (or caring about the differences?) himself, at least at the time he was relaying the story? jmo.

The domed-lid Tupperware cake container was essential to this tale. It seems the description of this container was almost more important than what was in it. It had to be this specific type of stollen (yeast bread with dried fruit made in a ring shape), because the stollen is usually made in a flat loaf-shape, and would not require a domed lid of any kind. Everything ties into Tupperware.

Also, because this type of container is bulky, it is more likely that it would be left behind in a car. Ordinary stollen is compact and easy to carry. It does not need a Tupperware cake container, or a domed-lid one.

 

[Gina20]

The way PK talks to us in the link above is more absurd now than it was back then.
Hey all.
I goofed.
Sounds like he’s talking to the boys at recess in Grade One.

He said he couldn't remember whether he took the "cake" into the garage or not, either. And since this was a bulky domed-lid Tupperware cake container, he thinks he must have left it in the car. Oh, well, he went home and ate it (the cake, not the domed-lid Tupperware cake container). I sure hope it hadn't been on the garage floor next to Audrey. That would seem disrespectful and possibly unhygienic.

 

[Gina20]

PK's working on that was interesting, from what I recall... even though he also said that he only saw her eyes and everything else was seen from his peripheral vision (IIRC). LE said at first there was a sexual 'component', but I don't think they said in the beginning that she was raped, etc.?? I think the orig lead detective on this case had some tunnel vision and lost some opportunity to obtain evidence in the earliest days, imho. I think it was later determined by a different team that they believed the sexual component was staged.

Regarding the sexual component, suffice it to say that it was visually obvious by observing the crime scene.
CANADA - Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #2

He remembers hardened blood on the garage floor, but can't remember whether or not he set a domed-lid Tupperware cake container down in it. That seems odd. Even odder if he did, then set it down in his car, and went home to eat the contents.

 

[deugirtni]

I find this utterance from PK interesting. Did police tell him they had changed direction to focus on 'those' who knew her best? Definitely plural. And seems there were really only two who would've been considered to have 'known her well'. He knows about 'himself', and that police started looking at him. Did they tell him they were also focusing on another person close to AG? Did that other person tell PK this? Have LE actually looked more into others who knew her well? If so, how far did they go, ie did they get a search warrant for anyone's shoes? Prints? DNA? etc.

With respect to whether I have a personal opinion regarding who could have done this horrible thing.... I feel at a complete loss. I find it highly unlikely that DLS is responsible and the police were simply unable to hold him because the direction of the case has shifted so drastically. The detectives are now putting lots of pressure on those of us who knew AG well (and honestly, I've always thought it likely that AG either knew or expected a visit from her attacker).

CANADA - Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #2

 

[whiterhino]

There was apparently no robbery and no real sexual attack so what motive does that leave? Rage? Jealousy? Thrill? Financial gain? Why was someone so careful about her safety and surroundings hideously murdered? I believe in following the money but where does that lead us? Audrey, who did this terrible thing to you?

I'm more interested in these questions than talking about cake. Even though the Tim Hortons video still has me laughing.

LE said "sexual component". So maybe not what most consider a sexual assault but a violation nonetheless. We've gone over the theory that this was done to Audrey as part of staging. Outside of this, as you say what other motive is there? Financial gain? Rage? Being slighted?

The other matter is whoever gained financially, were they capable? Just because someone stands to benefit doesn't mean they're guilty.

 

[deugirtni]

I'm more interested in these questions than talking about cake. Even though the Tim Hortons video still has me laughing.

LE said "sexual component". So maybe not what most consider a sexual assault but a violation nonetheless. We've gone over the theory that this was done to Audrey as part of staging. Outside of this, as you say what other motive is there? Financial gain? Rage? Being slighted?

The other matter is whoever gained financially, were they capable? Just because someone stands to benefit doesn't mean they're guilty.

Sorry, I didn't get the tim hortons joke. Doh. Please enlighten!

Anyway, agreed that, 'just because someone stands to benefit doesn't mean they're guilty', but if there is only ONE person who stands to benefit, that person requires substantial looking into - not only her, but who knew this about her who then might become a potential recipient of a loan or gift with the inherited cash?

I don't like to pick on anyone.. but... it's also on my mind that PK admits there were discussions with AG during her final year regarding what would happen when she died, presumably talking about her possessions, cash, house, etc. "I believe I've mentioned before that in her last year, AG and I talked a few times about what would happen after she was gone." What kind of talks were these, and why did they get talked about a few times in her last year? Were those 'talks' initiated by AG or PK? Did he ever share what her thoughts were on the subject? I wonder about whether someone was trying to persuade AG to perhaps bequeath at least some of her assets to themselves instead of all going to one person? Also, mention of AG using cash. "I'm not 100% sure how she paid but if I know Audrey it was with cash." This was in reference to a new built-in oven she'd purchased, IIRC... they are usually pretty costly, but yet PK guessed she would've paid cash.. what made him believe this? What other large amounts of cash did he see her spend, how would he know she preferred to use cash, did she have a huge stash in her house, did PK know where it was because he'd been helping her clean/downsize/declutter, how much would she have hidden? If talks surrounding perhaps changing the will to leave part of her estate to someone other than the main beneficiary failed, or the idea when brought up was chastised or whatever, did someone resort to 'revenge' instead, by helping themselves to the cash they already knew about?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I recall that I asked PK if AG had any ongoing illnesses and he said he never saw prescription bottles in her home.

How well did PK know her and her home? My neighbours no doubt know I have arthritis but they don’t know my prescription list.

I’m curious about his relationship with AG. And why was he the only one invited to sit indoors on her couch?

 

[Gina20]

I'm more interested in these questions than talking about cake. Even though the Tim Hortons video still has me laughing.

LE said "sexual component". So maybe not what most consider a sexual assault but a violation nonetheless. We've gone over the theory that this was done to Audrey as part of staging. Outside of this, as you say what other motive is there? Financial gain? Rage? Being slighted?

The other matter is whoever gained financially, were they capable? Just because someone stands to benefit doesn't mean they're guilty.

The "cake" is central to this story. I stepped in because it was time to set the record straight on this "cake", which is not a cake, but a bread. If we're going to debate it for 11 years, we might as well get the facts straight.

The "cake" is the whole reason for PK arriving on the scene in the first place. Without it, there would be no reason for him to be there. And it was not even a cake.

Maybe we should ask how is it possible that police overlooked a possibly bloody cake container on a car seat? Did they search the car or not? Did they get a search warrant later for the car?

The "cake" was not a cake. What else have we got wrong for the past 11 years?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I think I read way back when that PK said he was fully searched and his car was as well.

Should we start calling it “baked goods”?

 

[Gina20]

I recall that I asked PK if AG had any ongoing illnesses and he said he never saw prescription bottles in her home.

How well did PK know her and her home? My neighbours no doubt know I have arthritis but they don’t know my prescription list.

I’m curious about his relationship with AG. And why was he the only one invited to sit indoors on her couch?

Answering a question that was not asked, in greater detail than was necessary. How odd.

 

[Gina20]

I think I read way back when that PK said he was fully searched and his car was as well.

Should we start calling it “baked goods”?

The information offered was very specific and detailed. Very detailed. Except when it wasn't. We have to take his word for it, and all of it, in every minute detail. Police don't comment.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I’m confused. What is odd please? Are we not allowed to stray from the cake?

 

[deugirtni]

Here is more about the cake and its origins (not sure if link still works):

Gleave was a bit of a foodie and loved some particular recipes, including a specific spaghetti sauce and a coffee cake her ex-husband had made many years ago, he said. So for Christmas, Gleave asked for one of these cakes from Kinsman, whose wife, Alex, is a pastry chef.

Gleave was feeling ill over Christmas, so they arranged to drop the cake off the following Thursday morning. It was with the gift in hand that Kinsman stumbled on the horrific scene.

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/2183648--that-s-so-audrey-/

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Link doesn’t work but that’s OK.

 

[Gina20]

I’m confused. What is odd please? Are we not allowed to stray from the cake?

Of course, stray from the cake!

There is a great deal of minutiae provided about it, yet details like, "did the 'cake' stay in the car the whole time?" or, "why leave it in the car, if the purpose of this visit was to deliver a 'cake'?" cannot be answered. Also, why pull the garage door open, if it was on an electric door opener controlled by a keypad/remote? Why didn't Audrey's garage door open automatically when the passcode was entered, or the remote activated? Was it necessary to jimmy the emergency release to enter?

So much minutiae cluttering up the big questions. We know the recipe book name and the brand name of the plastic container: details that don't matter.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Yes, I understand completely. Too much minutiae and not enough substance.
Did he have to pull the garage door up even though he used the keypad?

 

[Gina20]

Yes, I understand completely. Too much minutiae and not enough substance.
Did he have to pull the garage door up even though he used the keypad?

I believe that was here, but the link is not working.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/5809219-who-killed-audrey-gleave-/

I did find this.

CANADA - Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #2

"When I raised the door". For someone focused on minutiae, that strikes me as different from saying he opened the door, which is how I would describe the use of a keypad or remote. You don't need to raise the door. The door raises itself. You enter the code. You click the remote door opener. The door opens. This reminds me of when concrete workers asked me to pop the emergency release before I left for the day, so they could pour the driveway. They could then raise the door manually.

 

[whiterhino]

Sorry, I didn't get the tim hortons joke. Doh. Please enlighten!

Every time we discussed the cake I kept imagining the one from Tim Hortons so finally I Googled it just so I'd know the difference between the Stollen and a coffee cake.

Then I found this video and just think it's really funny in light of this thread, the case, PK and the cake etc. It's not funny but when we discussed PK eating the cake and then I found this commercial... the music is hilarious! It must have been playing in PKs' car on the way home that day.

 

[whiterhino]

Here is more about the cake and its origins (not sure if link still works):

Gleave was a bit of a foodie and loved some particular recipes, including a specific spaghetti sauce and a coffee cake her ex-husband had made many years ago, he said. So for Christmas, Gleave asked for one of these cakes from Kinsman, whose wife, Alex, is a pastry chef.

Gleave was feeling ill over Christmas, so they arranged to drop the cake off the following Thursday morning. It was with the gift in hand that Kinsman stumbled on the horrific scene.

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/2183648--that-s-so-audrey-/

This is where I got coffee cake from!!!

Thank you. Cake. The word used for 11 years has been cake. Why stop now?