Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #11

[JayFriend]

Having taken a few days away from this case, I have done some reflecting on it. My conclusion is that TPS has squat- ie nothing. It makes no sense to me that any homicide force would transfer their lead investigator to desk job unless that individual and fellow investigators had not produced any results. A few days away has led me to this conclusion. I suspect the Sherman kids will spend the rest of their lives looking over their shoulders.

TPS had two possible conclusions. Murder suicide and then double murder. The former was strongly opposed by the family and its legal team and investigators. Switching to the latter appeased the family, but put more pressure on TPS to prove and solve it. But what if it is the former? Between a rock and a hard place.

 

[dotr]

Re post, rbbm, imo, speculation.
Re reading this, it almost seems as though the identity of the killer/s could directly be found in those files.
If the worry is that others might be in danger of being kidnapped and harmed, why were Honey and Barry not kidnapped, but boldly targeted in their home?
Wondering if there was in fact, a kidnapping or public " execution" planned but it went all wrong, perhaps because Honey went to Apotex HQ to meet with the architect and Barry?
Might last minute improvisation explain the bizarre murder scene?

Where is Honey Sherman’s will? | The Star
"In his first of two sealing orders, Ontario Superior Court Justice Sean Dunphy wrote in June that the file contains “confidential materials of potential relevance to the police investigation.” Whether the Toronto police have been provided this information, neither the police or the family will say."

" Dunphy also said he was doing it out of concern that the killers, who have never been caught, would harm someone else. During a hearing where the Star sought access to all or parts of the court file, the Sherman family lawyer warned that the beneficiaries and trustees of their estates could be vulnerable to “violence and kidnapping” if any information in the files was released.

“The willingness of the perpetrator(s) of the crimes to resort to extreme violence to pursue whatever motive existed has been amply demonstrated,” Dunphy said in his August ruling. “The risk of harm is foreseeable and the foreseeable harm is grave.”

 

[WINDSOR]

Re post, rbbm, imo, speculation.
Re reading this, it almost seems as though the identity of the killer/s could directly be found in those files.
If the worry is that others might be in danger of being kidnapped and harmed, why were Honey and Barry not kidnapped, but boldly targeted in their home?
Wondering if there was in fact, a kidnapping or public " execution" planned but it went all wrong, perhaps because Honey went to Apotex HQ to meet with the architect and Barry?
Might last minute improvisation explain the bizarre murder scene?

Where is Honey Sherman’s will? | The Star
"In his first of two sealing orders, Ontario Superior Court Justice Sean Dunphy wrote in June that the file contains “confidential materials of potential relevance to the police investigation.” Whether the Toronto police have been provided this information, neither the police or the family will say."

" Dunphy also said he was doing it out of concern that the killers, who have never been caught, would harm someone else. During a hearing where the Star sought access to all or parts of the court file, the Sherman family lawyer warned that the beneficiaries and trustees of their estates could be vulnerable to “violence and kidnapping” if any information in the files was released.

“The willingness of the perpetrator(s) of the crimes to resort to extreme violence to pursue whatever motive existed has been amply demonstrated,” Dunphy said in his August ruling. “The risk of harm is foreseeable and the foreseeable harm is grave.”

Based on his rulings, it appears that Judge Dunphy believes a double homicide took place. Or at least he believes what the TPS is telling him. By sealing the estate file, which contains “confidential materials of potential relevance to the police investigation." one could wonder what sort of information that file contain?

Could the file contain promissory notes and loan agreements from specific individuals to or from Barry Sherman?
It likely contains Barry's will, listing of asset distributions to heirs and final instruction.
Is it likely to contain materials relating to business activities? I am not so sure.

To me it points to the fact, very likely the perpetrators of the murders were likely closely related to the Sherman family and/or close personal friends and colleagues, who are the only ones usually mentioned in final estate documents.

With the immediate family posting the big reward, one could believe the immediate family was not aware or involved in the crime.

My opinion only and just following some hunches.

 

[Sphinx]

Re post, rbbm, imo, speculation.
Re reading this, it almost seems as though the identity of the killer/s could directly be found in those files.
If the worry is that others might be in danger of being kidnapped and harmed, why were Honey and Barry not kidnapped, but boldly targeted in their home?
Wondering if there was in fact, a kidnapping or public " execution" planned but it went all wrong, perhaps because Honey went to Apotex HQ to meet with the architect and Barry?
Might last minute improvisation explain the bizarre murder scene?

Where is Honey Sherman’s will? | The Star
"In his first of two sealing orders, Ontario Superior Court Justice Sean Dunphy wrote in June that the file contains “confidential materials of potential relevance to the police investigation.” Whether the Toronto police have been provided this information, neither the police or the family will say."

" Dunphy also said he was doing it out of concern that the killers, who have never been caught, would harm someone else. During a hearing where the Star sought access to all or parts of the court file, the Sherman family lawyer warned that the beneficiaries and trustees of their estates could be vulnerable to “violence and kidnapping” if any information in the files was released.

“The willingness of the perpetrator(s) of the crimes to resort to extreme violence to pursue whatever motive existed has been amply demonstrated,” Dunphy said in his August ruling. “The risk of harm is foreseeable and the foreseeable harm is grave.”

 

[Sphinx]

Based on his rulings, it appears that Judge Dunphy believes a double homicide took place. Or at least he believes what the TPS is telling him. By sealing the estate file, which contains “confidential materials of potential relevance to the police investigation." one could wonder what sort of information that file contain?

Could the file contain promissory notes and loan agreements from specific individuals to or from Barry Sherman?
It likely contains Barry's will, listing of asset distributions to heirs and final instruction.
Is it likely to contain materials relating to business activities? I am not so sure.

To me it points to the fact, very likely the perpetrators of the murders were likely closely related to the Sherman family and/or close personal friends and colleagues, who are the only ones usually mentioned in final estate documents.


Perhaps it was this kind of hidden information, which could cause other family members to be harmed, if revealed, that was the cause of the beating that Honey received before death. We speculated here that she may have been subjected to some kind of torture to make her and/or Barry talk. IMO

With the immediate family posting the big reward, one could believe the immediate family was not aware or involved in the crime.

My opinion only and just following some hunches.

 

[Sphinx]

Perhaps it was this kind of hidden information, which could cause other family members to be harmed, if revealed, that was the cause of the beating that Honey received before death. We speculated here that she may have been subjected to some kind of torture to make her and/or Barry talk. IMO

Sorry I had some trouble posting twice above. Moderator, please remove the posts with blank space. Thanks.

 

[WINDSOR]

Perhaps it was this kind of hidden information, which could cause other family members to be harmed, if revealed, that was the cause of the beating that Honey received before death. We speculated here that she may have been subjected to some kind of torture to make her and/or Barry talk. IMO

Sorry I had some trouble posting twice above. Moderator, please remove the posts with blank space. Thanks.

SPHINX, thanks "the cause of the beating that Honey received before death"

I believe words are important, so I am not sure the term beating is accurate. Beating implies a level of brutality that has not been confirmed by any sources that I am aware of. Do you have any confirmation that a beating took place?

If a beating did take place, it adds a different dimension to the crime.

 

[Sphinx]

SPHINX, thanks "the cause of the beating that Honey received before death"

I believe words are important, so I am not sure the term beating is accurate. Beating implies a level of brutality that has not been confirmed by any sources that I am aware of. Do you have any confirmation that a beating took place?

If a beating did take place, it adds a different dimension to the crime.

No, I do not have any special information, other than what was in the press. Perhaps it would be better to say that there was some kind of struggle, and she was left bleeding. IMO

 

[MistyWaters]

TPS had two possible conclusions. Murder suicide and then double murder. The former was strongly opposed by the family and its legal team and investigators. Switching to the latter appeased the family, but put more pressure on TPS to prove and solve it. But what if it is the former? Between a rock and a hard place.

You might find this article below informative. Although it was published in the US, our Canadian system is very similar and the role of the Coroner is much the same. The difference in Canada is coroners are qualified medical professionals who are appointed provincially, not elected as in the US. In neither Canada nor the US are police forces medically trained nor tasked with the responsibility of concluding the cause or manner of deaths. Their role is prevention and solving of crime.

This dual partnered involvement in murder investigations is what prevents the type of influence you’re suggesting might’ve occurred.

Spotting Secret Death-Scene Clues: A Retired Coroner Tells All

 

[MistyWaters]

No, I do not have any special information, other than what was in the press. Perhaps it would be better to say that there was some kind of struggle, and she was left bleeding. IMO

The location of this pool of blood seems to have shifted over time.

Am I correct in the initial reference to it by an anonymous source was to support the m/s theory that headlined in the media early on?

As the m/s theory was proven false, how likely is the pool of blood story to be true?

 

[WINDSOR]

The location of this pool of blood seems to have shifted over time.

Am I correct in the initial reference to it by an anonymous source was to support the m/s theory that headlined in the media early on?

As the m/s theory was proven false, how likely is the pool of blood story to be true?

I always have had trouble with the reported term "pool of blood'. I think the existence of Honey's blood is valid even under a double murder scenario, and it is my understanding she reported to be found hanging in a 'pool of blood' and that has been verified.

Unfortunately nobody really knows what quantity a 'pool of blood' is. Was there massive bleeding as a result of many injuries? Or was the pool of blood maybe an ounce? Was Honey on blood thinners for medical reasons, that would have impacted on normal coagulation? Besides the blood under the railing, was there any blood anywhere else?

So many scenarios are possible.

 

[dotr]

rbbm.
Christie Blatchford: Private investigators in Sherman case share police penchant for leaks
"All that Toronto police have ever said officially about the case is that the deaths are “suspicious.”

Homicide detectives and force spokesman Mark Pugash steadfastly have refused to respond to reporters’ requests for comment, denial or information.
But Saturday, all manner of lurid details about the couple’s deaths — that their wrists had been bound; that they were wearing winter coats that would have immobilized their arms; that they may have died a day or two before the discovery of the bodies; that Mrs. Sherman struggled with her killer or killers and was found lying in a pool of her own blood, and that it all looked like the work of professional killers or like a “contract killing” — were splashed all over the Star and the CBC website."
Private investigators believe Toronto billionaires Barry and Honey Sherman were murdered, source says | CBC News
Private investigators also believe that Honey struggled with her killer or killers. She had cuts on her lip and nose, and was sitting in a pool of her own blood when she was discovered. However, there was comparatively little blood apparent on her upper-body clothing, suggesting that she had been face-down on the tile, bleeding, for some time before being bound to the handrail in an upright position, the source said.

 

[MistyWaters]

I always have had trouble with the reported term "pool of blood'. I think the existence of Honey's blood is valid even under a double murder scenario, and it is my understanding she reported to be found hanging in a 'pool of blood' and that has been verified.

Unfortunately nobody really knows what quantity a 'pool of blood' is. Was there massive bleeding as a result of many injuries? Or was the pool of blood maybe an ounce? Was Honey on blood thinners for medical reasons, that would have impacted on normal coagulation? Besides the blood under the railing, was there any blood anywhere else?

So many scenarios are possible.

Sources....yes, various conflicting reports whether she was “bound to the handrail in an upright position” or “slumped on her side”, in which case might explain little blood on upper-body clothing. But it wouldn’t surprise me if both were beaten, just that these initial media stories prior to an arrest aren’t always reliable.

“Private investigators also believe that Honey struggled with her killer or killers. She had cuts on her lip and nose, and was sitting in a pool of her own blood when she was discovered. However, there was comparatively little blood apparent on her upper-body clothing, suggesting that she had been face-down on the tile, bleeding, for some time before being bound to the handrail in an upright position, the source said....”
Private investigators believe Toronto billionaires Barry and Honey Sherman were murdered, source says | CBC News

“Honey, who had a blond bob and an athletic frame, was slumped on her side and appeared to have been struck on her face...”
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

 

[Sphinx]

Based on his rulings, it appears that Judge Dunphy believes a double homicide took place. Or at least he believes what the TPS is telling him. By sealing the estate file, which contains “confidential materials of potential relevance to the police investigation." one could wonder what sort of information that file contain?

Could the file contain promissory notes and loan agreements from specific individuals to or from Barry Sherman?
It likely contains Barry's will, listing of asset distributions to heirs and final instruction.
Is it likely to contain materials relating to business activities? I am not so sure.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- end of quote

Don't forget all the charities Honey worked with, and the large sums that were donated by Barry and Honey Sherman. From personal experience, I can tell you that charities are very big business indeed, and all kinds of competition, rivalry, resentment, jealousy and bad behaviours are common among those fund raising for their causes, and among those who handle and distribute the funds. Also the political ramifications of some of their donations, and fund raising events at their own home, may also be involved in the motives for their murders. In this case, it is not easy to " follow the money " . There are so many different complex and complicated trails.

I did notice though at the funeral that the son Johnathan promised during his eulogy that the family would continue with their charitable donations. I wondered then if they had been threatened. Many of us on this forum thought the staging of the bodies was some kind of message, and I think that message would be to the family, but I still do not know what it was. I am just speculating that it might have had something to do with the charities and the millions and millions donated at the discretion of the Shermans.

Honey worked closely with the various charities and made many public appearances without Barry, but sometimes Barry attended events too, and I remember reading in the press that he usually expected favours of some kind in return, involving his business. Did they step on some very big political toes, and refuse to back down ? IMO

 

[WINDSOR]

SPHINX wrote, "Don't forget all the charities Honey worked with, and the large sums that were donated by Barry and Honey Sherman. From personal experience, I can tell you that charities are very big business indeed, and all kinds of competition, rivalry, resentment, jealousy and bad behaviours are common among those fund raising for their causes, and among those who handle and distribute the funds. Also the political ramifications of some of their donations, and fund raising events at their own home, may also be involved in the motives for their murders. In this case, it is not easy to " follow the money " . There are so many different complex and complicated trails.

I did notice though at the funeral that the son Johnathan promised during his eulogy that the family would continue with their charitable donations. I wondered then if they had been threatened. Many of us on this forum thought the staging of the bodies was some kind of message, and I think that message would be to the family, but I still do not know what it was. I am just speculating that it might have had something to do with the charities and the millions and millions donated at the discretion of the Shermans.

Honey worked closely with the various charities and made many public appearances without Barry, but sometimes Barry attended events too, and I remember reading in the press that he usually expected favours of some kind in return, involving his business. Did they step on some very big political toes, and refuse to back down ? IMO"

Good stuff, could it be that Sherman's were in the process of making a decision to stop funding an organization, and in desperation that organization decided to have a meeting with the Shermans and 'make them an offer'? It seems very far fetched that a 'charity' would operate in this way. However maybe an individual(s) from the 'charity' decided on their own to take rogue action? Could it be that somebody was embezzling from a charity, and the loss of funding from the Shermans would result in the scam being discovered?

If the Shermas had not changed their wills yet, to delete this charity, that is a great motive for their murder.


One explanation regarding the blood. They are in the process of killing Honey in the pool area, and she puts up a surprising amount of resistance. They subdue her with a blow to the face which cuts her lip and nose, which then bleeds as the ligature is applied.

 

[casesensitive]

I think greedy big Pharma would pose a larger threat to BS than a charitable organization. JMO

 

[dotr]

Meanwhile.. rbbm.
Feb 22 2019
Former head of Sick Kids’ Motherisk lab gives up medical licence amid investigation | The Star
"Dr. Gideon Koren has agreed to never practise medicine again in Ontario in the face of an investigation by the province’s medical regulator into whether he committed “professional misconduct or was incompetent” while he was in charge of the Hospital for Sick Children’s Motherisk laboratory.

The promise to relinquish his licence is laid out in what is known as an “undertaking,” posted on Koren’s profile on the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario’s website. In the document, signed by Koren this month in Tel Aviv, he also promises not to reapply for a license in this province."
"This was not Koren’s first time in the college’s crosshairs. He was suspended for five months, two of which without pay, for professional misconduct in 2003 for writing so-called anonymous “poison pen letters” to Dr. Nancy Olivieri and her supporters at Sick Kids, calling them “a bunch of pigs” among other things.

The pair had worked on a drug study for generic drug maker Apotex, but ended up disagreeing on the drug’s effectiveness, with Olivieri wanting to go public with her concerns about potentially harmful side-effects. Apotex terminated her clinical trials, but she published her findings anyway in the New England Journal of Medicine."

 

[ldlager]

My sense is that the investigation of this case is either stalled, or has been parked. Months with no updates or news, and investigators moved to other jobs. Commentary here and in the press has simply dried up, reflecting the seeming absence of any new developments.
Some on this thread predicted exactly this.

 

[dotr]

Apotex in front page news..
One might wonder if suicide or murder could result when drugs" go bad"? speculation, imo.
Feb 27 2019
UHN patients given unlicensed drug that led to diabetes, liver dysfunction and one death, study finds | The Star
"Canada’s largest hospital permitted patients to suffer “persistent toxicity and adverse effects” resulting in elevated incidents of diabetes and liver dysfunction — along with a death — after being treated with an unlicensed drug for six years, says a co-author of a study being published Wednesday.

Dr. Brenda Gallie, a professor of medical biophysics and ophthalmology at the Hospital for Sick Children, says the new data provide clear evidence that the drug deferiprone — sold as Ferriprox by generic pharmaceutical maker Apotex — poses serious health risks that hospital administrators were told about years ago."
Study co-authored by Gideon Koren retracted as journals continue review of disgraced doctor’s published works | The Star
Feb 26 2019
"In 2000, the heads of Sick Kids and U of T suspended and fined Koren for “repeatedly lying” and sending anonymous “poison pen letters” to doctors and the media disparaging Olivieri and her supporters. Koren denied writing the letters until DNA evidence provided irrefutable proof. A committee formed by the U of T Faculty of Medicine at the time found that Koren had published the paper without consulting the other researchers, including Olivieri, failed to disclose support for the trial from Canadian generic drug-maker Apotex, and had not discussed the safety concerns about the drug. At the time, Naylor, then dean of medicine, said he had insisted Koren write to the journal to acknowledge his error and ask that the article be deleted from the scientific record. But the article was never withdrawn. Instead, in 2004, TDM published an erratum stating that “the specific industry sponsor, Apotex Inc., of Weston, Ontario, was not mentioned.”

 

[WINDSOR]

Apotex in front page news..
One might wonder if suicide or murder could result when drugs" go bad"? speculation, imo.
Feb 27 2019
UHN patients given unlicensed drug that led to diabetes, liver dysfunction and one death, study finds | The Star
"Canada’s largest hospital permitted patients to suffer “persistent toxicity and adverse effects” resulting in elevated incidents of diabetes and liver dysfunction — along with a death — after being treated with an unlicensed drug for six years, says a co-author of a study being published Wednesday.

Dr. Brenda Gallie, a professor of medical biophysics and ophthalmology at the Hospital for Sick Children, says the new data provide clear evidence that the drug deferiprone — sold as Ferriprox by generic pharmaceutical maker Apotex — poses serious health risks that hospital administrators were told about years ago."

Now this is very interesting and provides a new possible motive. What if the perpetrators of this crime was a victim or related to a victim of the drug deferiprone, and wanted to seek revenge on the Shermans? To me this is a real stretch, as I would think a vengeful person would go after the doctor who prescribed the drug rather than the manufacturer. However someone who is under duress and not thinking clearly could place the blame on the Shermans.

I wonder if the TPS have looked into the deaths of people who were treated with deferiprone and the behavior of people close to the deceased?