CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #17

[BaffleMe]

I now believe the staging of their bodies was a serious attempt to make it look like a M/S (Honey with facial bleeding and Barry with none, and him posed with no sign of injury or assault, and especially including him still wearing his eye glasses, and seemingly relaxed in his mission of suicide). Later reference to the metal statues resembling their similar, but different death poses is just coincidental imo.

It seems that TPS bought into a M/S immediately at the crime scene, and were confident enough to say that night that no suspects were being sought. Based on police savvy (and homicide cops were reported to be at the scene) I think the killer actually did a good job initially making their deaths look like a M/S.

One killer with a gun can accomplish total control over a victim. But one killer would have a hard time to control two victims at the same time, and strangle both of them, regardless of their wrists being tied. Maybe their wrists were tied together--it was never clear about that. Maybe the killer was a pro who knew how to get the job done.

I believed Greenspan's theory that multiple killers were on the scene. Now that we know that only one person has been seen on video surveillance who they call a "suspect", I believe that this person killed the Shermans, and there is little doubt in mind that he was a professional hit man. jmo

OR he is the only suspect we have been informed of!? Certainly if there were two or more killers, they would not leave and stroll out together, IMO. The three hour duration in which LE thinks the Shermans were killed leads me to believe there was at least one other person.

 

[BaffleMe]

To clear something up in my mind,...................
Did the TPS ever officially and publicly declare the Sherman's death as a Murder/Suicide?
Or was it a reporter (KD) quoting an anonymous police source?

I think that was TPS's original word.

 

[William_60]

OR he is the only suspect we have been informed of!? Certainly if there were two or more killers, they would not leave and stroll out together, IMO. The three hour duration in which LE thinks the Shermans were killed leads me to believe there was at least one other person.

Agree, more than one individual carried out the crime.

On the professional hit question…just find it hard to believe a pro would agree to be at the scene one second longer than necessary.

Yet…where does a relative amateur get the nerve to be at the scene that long?

Astute planning cannot account for The Unexpected visitor or visitors to the house.

 

[William_60]

I’d like to see more video of the NW. Guess we all would.

I’d like to see The Gait, and the arm movement both going to, and coming from, the house.

Earlier I thought this might be moot, that TPS released video that is both best quality AND consistent and representative regardless if captured before or after, coming or going.

Maybe that left arm was hurt at the house.

Anyway, sure would be nice to have additional footage to make comparisons.

Thought I read (or maybe heard Donovan say) the perp took the same route. If so, 59 Bannatyne’s cam would conceivably have Coming - and Going - footage - right?

 

[Window21]

This may have been discussed early on in the threads, but wouldn't there be DNA under BS and HS nails? If someone was strangling me with their hands or a belt I would be trying to fight them, scratch them etc....
Has the police or anyone ever mentioned any evidence of a struggle such as DNA under their nails etc?

 

[juli99]

If anyone wants to watch KW walk in a coat on a winter night, it's shown in this video at about 3:15.

 

[Window21]

Thought I read (or maybe heard Donovan say) the perp took the same route. If so, 59 Bannatyne’s cam would have Coming - and Going - footage - right?

The police said they have more footage so I assume they have the suspect going both ways unless he got dropped of there to do the job and left on foot.

 

[Window21]

If anyone wants to watch KW walk in a coat on a winter night, it's shown in this video at about 3:15.

Interesting. Thanks for this. KW looks taller than the suspect, but it's hard to tell. I don't think he looks like the guy in the video. His size is different. IMO

 

[BaffleMe]

I’d like to see more video of the NW. Guess we all would.

I’d like to see The Gait, and the arm movement both going to, and coming from, the house.

Earlier I thought this might be moot, that TPS released video that is both best quality AND consistent and representative regardless if captured before or after, coming or going.

Maybe that left arm was hurt at the house.

Anyway, sure would be nice to have additional footage to make comparisons.

Thought I read (or maybe heard Donovan say) the perp took the same route. If so, 59 Bannatyne’s cam would conceivably have Coming - and Going - footage - right?

I think so. That's why it can be said "coming and going."

 

[juli99]

Interesting. Thanks for this. KW looks taller than the suspect, but it's hard to tell. I don't think he looks like the guy in the video. His size is different. IMO

I'd be curious to know the height of @Kerry Winter. He does look taller to me than the NW's height. From photos of BS with the prime minister, he looks to be about half a foot shorter than Justin, who is 6'1". That would put BS at about 5'7 or so. In photos, he's also not much taller than HS.

 

[ldlager]

This may have been discussed early on in the threads, but wouldn't there be DNA under BS and HS nails? If someone was strangling me with their hands or a belt I would be trying to fight them, scratch them etc....
Has the police or anyone ever mentioned any evidence of a struggle such as DNA under their nails etc?

No reports that there is evidence of any struggle. They may have been restrained by zip ties or belt while being strangled, and/or their arms constrained by their pulled back coats

 

[ldlager]

To clear something up in my mind,...................
Did the TPS ever officially and publicly declare the Sherman's death as a Murder/Suicide?
Or was it a reporter (KD) quoting an anonymous police source?

No, not officially. They indicated on the first day that they were not currently looking for suspects. The press ran with an inference of m/s. warmington claims someone in LE told him to change his headline

 

[BaffleMe]

No reports that there is evidence of any struggle. They may have been restrained by zip ties or belt while being strangled, and/or their arms constrained by their pulled back coats

I vaguely remember that Honey showed signs of struggle

 

[casesensitive]

To clear something up in my mind,...................
Did the TPS ever officially and publicly declare the Sherman's death as a Murder/Suicide?
Or was it a reporter (KD) quoting an anonymous police source?

No, TPS never publicly declared the Sherman's deaths as a M/S, but they led the press and public to believe that theory and never commented on the raging M/S press articles, or the Sherman family's dismay in protesting the M/S theory. Sometimes LE will correct mis-information circling in the public, but TPS never commented, which is their choice of course.

Further to Idlager's response, Joe Warmington, a reporter for The Toronto Star had learned from his police source on the day that the bodies were found, that a cop at the crime scene said the Shermans were (I forget the macabre term used) definitely murdered.

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]That was the headline Warmington was going to run for the next day's Star publication. But he got a phone call (I believe from a senior TPS member) and was told that it was a M/S so don't run the M/M story. I remember Joe being very angry later, when TPS declared the deaths as double homicides which aligned to his original police source. He wrote an article about it. I'm sorry that I haven't supplied links to Joe's articles, but they are in earlier threads.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]My recent post recognized the savvy of TPS homicide investigators, and gave credit to the killer in pulling off an initial M/S scene. After Idlager refreshed my memory about Warmington, and as I recalled his articles, I'm not sure what to think now. Was the crime scene an obvious double murder or was it a M/S crime scene?[/FONT]
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[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]An eye witness who checked the bodies:[/FONT]
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[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]According to the court documents, the gardener told police she came within a metre of the bodies, did not touch them, and came back upstairs.

She came back up “shaking,” the realtor told police, and informed the others that the Shermans were blue and clearly dead, adding that it appeared they had been murdered.

Police noted that in her 911 call, the realtor said that someone had killed her clients and she could be heard yelling, “they are dead.”

It's been 3 years since Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead. Court documents reveal what we know so far
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[casesensitive]

I'm not sure what happened to my response, but If it isn't erased I will repost it without the link that may have have distorted it.

 

[casesensitive]

No, TPS never publicly declared the Sherman's deaths as a M/S, but they led the press and public to believe that and never commented on the raging M/S press articles, or the Sherman family's dismay in protesting the M/S theory. Sometimes LE will correct mis-information circling in the public, but TPS never commented.

Further to Idlager's response, Joe Warmington, a reporter for The Toronto Star had learned from his police source on the day that the bodies were found, that a cop at the crime scene said the Shermans were (I forget the macabre term used) definitely murdered.

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]That was the headline Warmington was going to run for the next day's publication. But he got a phone call (I believe from a senior TPS member) and was told that it was a M/S so don't run the M/M story. I remember Joe being very angry later, when TPS declared the deaths as double homicides which aligned to his original police source. He wrote an article about it. I'm sorry that I haven't supplied links to Joe's articles, but they are in earlier threads.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]My recent post recognized the savvy of TPS homicide investigators, and gave credit to the killer in pulling off an initial M/S scene to fool LE. After Idlager refreshed my memory about Warmington and I recalled his articles, I don't know what to think.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]The court documents from the gardener (plant waterer) who went to the pool room after the realtor saw the bodies to check on them, said they were blue, and dead, and looked like they were murdered.[/FONT]
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[ldlager]

I vaguely remember that Honey showed signs of struggle

yes you are correct. But we don’t know if there was a struggle, or how Hs received her injuries

 

[Tobiano8th]

No, TPS never publicly declared the Sherman's deaths as a M/S, but they led the press and public to believe that and never commented on the raging M/S press articles, or the Sherman family's dismay in protesting the M/S theory. Sometimes LE will correct mis-information circling in the public, but TPS never commented.

Further to Idlager's response, Joe Warmington, a reporter for The Toronto Star had learned from his police source on the day that the bodies were found, that a cop at the crime scene said the Shermans were (I forget the macabre term used) definitely murdered.

casesenstive, can we dig up a link to that quote? i find that very very interesting.... would partially change my view of the TPS on this whole situation

 

[Tobiano8th]

Gina (i think that's the correct name),

you need to get your "Russian KGB and USA secret service one-handed walk idea" to the TPS and the Sherman family's investigators ASAP.. probably a long shot, but you might be eligible for some reward $$$$$$ if they solve the case.

i assume you linked the "KGB walk" to the Sherman case yourself.

 

[Tobiano8th]

Is this the murderer of Barry and Honey Sherman or are Toronto police chasing a ghost? - NOW Magazine

recent article. well done, i thought .. non-paywall.

note: these are paragraphs from the article.. but NOT consecutive paragraphs.

A source close to the investigation who spoke to NOW suggests the perpetrator (or perpetrators) may not even be in Canada. This source theorizes that the murders were contract killings carried out by a foreign actor, perhaps from an Eastern European or Middle Eastern country, who was likely part of a criminal organization.

The source close to the investigation characterizes that as “pure speculation.” But there’s little doubt that the killings were intended to make a statement.. my own comment: the killings were made to look like "there were intended to make a statement" or "to make TPS think it was M/S, which they did successful. honestly, why would some eastern european hitman getting paid $1MM care about making a statement?

Price ran down the Toronto police efforts to date at Tuesday’s press conference – 41 judicial authorizations (for search warrants), 250 witness interviews, 1,255 tips and 992 “investigative actions.” He says the force remains “steadfast” in bringing closure to the case.

Contract killings are the most difficult to solve because they’re carried out by professionals and usually rely on the person who carried out the hit to turn in the person who hired them. This source says “that’s unlikely to happen in this case.” Meanwhile, an attempt by the Star to unseal police documents related to the case was denied by a court last spring.

my own comment again: i find JS reference to "bitcoin hand time stamp" for date/time a bit ironic, as i'm thinking the assassin (assuming it is 3rd party) was probably paid in such.