CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #17

[ldlager]

But this person is a "suspect" because of his movements. That includes being in the area of the deaths at the time of the deaths for a "suspicious amount of time."

Yes I accept that. But what if the individual has an explanation that clears him/her?

 

[ldlager]

But this person is a "suspect" because of his movements. That includes being in the area of the deaths at the time of the deaths for a "suspicious amount of time."

Yes I accept that. But what if the individual has an explanation that clears him/her?

 

[Tobiano8th]

great discussions,

a bunch of comments/questions,

1) this hasn't been discussed much at all.............. didn't this "funny walk" person walk to and from subway station (1.5 miles each way.. my recollection).... a long way on a cold winter night for a brain damaged or amputee to walk... would brain damaged/amputee really consider themselves capable of doing a clean assassination? or would anyone hire such a person? that's why I like Gina's KGB/Secret Service comment.... BTW, can some pin down the distance on the walk to/from subway station? and what station?

2) of course this person could be completely innocent.......... you'd think they might come forward if that's the case.......... or would an innocent person be paranoid?

3) I agree the TPS should be careful with wording... this is the only person they've found on camera that hasn't been accounted for...... BUT, who's to say you can't get into house without being caught on camera? I assume it would require knowledge of all the camera's in the neighbourhood and an appropriate place to get picked up or leave a getaway car... BUT, I assume for the KGB/Mossad this is a piece of cake..... now, it might be the case that no such route exists, but IMHO I would think such a route exists.

4) on the "strange walk" person........ what time/day was he/she right at or very near the Sherman property?.... were police able to pin down "time of death" very closely? I'm thinking "no"

 

[Window21]

on the "strange walk" person........ what time/day was he/she right at or very near the Sherman property?.... were police able to pin down "time of death" very closely? I'm thinking "no"

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they pinned the deaths between 9 pm and midnight on the Wednesday Dec 13th. The police said the person in the video fits the timeline of the deaths

 

[dotr]

Detectives sought ‘tower dump’ of all cellular communication around Barry and Honey Sherman’s home, Barry’s office, documents reveal
''Dec. 27, 2021
The Toronto Star has won access in court to police investigative documents in the now four-year old, unsolved Barry and Honey Sherman murder case. Last week, we detailed the results of the first year of the homicide probe, how intensive interviews with Sherman family, friends and business associates led detectives to check 35 cellular telephones to see if their owners were stalking the Shermans. In today’s instalment, the Star reveals how empty-handed investigators decided to cast a wider net.

If you were on the streets around the Toronto home of murder victims Barry and Honey Sherman on July 25, 2018, you would have seen a youngish-looking Toronto police officer making a series of calls on a cellular telephone, then methodically recording the results in a notebook. That was Det.-Const. Dennis Yim of the Toronto police homicide unit.''

 

[William_60]

While I believe Detective Yim is a capable investigator, I’d feel a lot better if he had another capable detective join him on the case full time.

 

[BaffleMe]

Yes I accept that. But what if the individual has an explanation that clears him/her?

Like what??

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Detectives sought ‘tower dump’ of all cellular communication around Barry and Honey Sherman’s home, Barry’s office, documents reveal
''Dec. 27, 2021
The Toronto Star has won access in court to police investigative documents in the now four-year old, unsolved Barry and Honey Sherman murder case. Last week, we detailed the results of the first year of the homicide probe, how intensive interviews with Sherman family, friends and business associates led detectives to check 35 cellular telephones to see if their owners were stalking the Shermans. In today’s instalment, the Star reveals how empty-handed investigators decided to cast a wider net.

If you were on the streets around the Toronto home of murder victims Barry and Honey Sherman on July 25, 2018, you would have seen a youngish-looking Toronto police officer making a series of calls on a cellular telephone, then methodically recording the results in a notebook. That was Det.-Const. Dennis Yim of the Toronto police homicide unit.''

I have to summarize to comply with the copyright rule (emphasis mine):

- Barry was tied at the wrists before he died. (My note: KD doesn’t say that Honey was also tied in this article).

-Both Shermans were strangled with a thin ligature.

-after they were killed, they were placed onto the position in which they were found, kept in place by belts attached to the pool railing.

-Honey and Barry were both wearing shoes. KD wrote that Sherman family and friends were asked what footwear Honey and Barry wore on the home, but the answers were inconclusive. (My note: Alex seemed to recall. Quote from previous Star article— “Police also interviewed daughter Alexandra (Alex) Sherman and her husband Brad Krawczyk. (The couple have since separated). In her interview, Alex is asked about shoes and she says her mother wore a pair of “black slip-on shoes” in the house and outside the home.” People had reason to ‘hurt’ Barry and Honey Sherman, son tells Toronto police in early days of the investigation )

-Barry had his glasses on, undisturbed.

-The video that the police released is the last point they caught the suspect on cctv. He is referred to as ‘the suspected killer’ in police documents.

(My note—my impression is that the killer had a burner phone based on the excerpt dotr posted above.)

 

[deugirtni]

Yes I accept that. But what if the individual has an explanation that clears him/her?

The way I understood it.. they've identified everyone in the area caught on various video cams, except for this one individual.. but they seem to have discovered 'mundane' reasons for all (or I believe I read 'most' at one time?) of those people to have been in the area at the time.. so if this one individual ends up being identified and has a valid reason for being there and doing what he's seen doing, they'd have to go back to dig deeper into all of those other identified persons' mundane reasons. jmo.

 

[dotr]

2016 fwiw
Ontario court rules police orders breached cellphone users’ Charter rights

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/cellphone-privacy-ruling-1.3403550

Jan 14, 2016
CityNews
''TORONTO – An Ontario court has ruled that Peel Regional Police violated cellphone customers’ charter rights when requesting a broad swath of personal information from about 40,000 Telus and Rogers subscribers to help them with an investigation.

Telus and Rogers brought the Charter of Rights challenge before the court in 2014 after police asked the companies for customer cellphone information as part of an investigation into the robberies of several jewellery stores.

Officers wanted to identify people using cellphones near the stores around the time of the robberies.

Police asked for customer information for all calls routed through 37 cellphone towers during specific time periods under what’s known as a tower dump production order, according to court records.

In his decision Thursday, Judge John Sproat of the Ontario Superior Court said the information the police sought was “particularly broad and onerous,” adding that they breached the charter rights of customers, specifically their “right to be secure against unreasonable search and seizure.”

 

[Sphinx]

I have to summarize to comply with the copyright rule (emphasis mine):

- Barry was tied at the wrists before he died. (My note: KD doesn’t say that Honey was also tied in this article).

-Both Shermans were strangled with a thin ligature.

-after they were killed, they were placed onto the position in which they were found, kept in place by belts attached to the pool railing.

-Honey and Barry were both wearing shoes. KD wrote that Sherman family and friends were asked what footwear Honey and Barry wore on the home, but the answers were inconclusive. (My note: Alex seemed to recall. Quote from previous Star article— “Police also interviewed daughter Alexandra (Alex) Sherman and her husband Brad Krawczyk. (The couple have since separated). In her interview, Alex is asked about shoes and she says her mother wore a pair of “black slip-on shoes” in the house and outside the home.” People had reason to ‘hurt’ Barry and Honey Sherman, son tells Toronto police in early days of the investigation )

-Barry had his glasses on, undisturbed.

-The video that the police released is the last point they caught the suspect on cctv. He is referred to as ‘the suspected killer’ in police documents.

(My note—my impression is that the killer had a burner phone based on the excerpt dotr posted above.)

I remember early on it was reported in the press that both Honey and Barry were wearing boots. That may have been in a Toronto Sun article. They both had their winter jackets on, pulled down halfway, probably as restraints. If they had coats still on, and were both attacked near entry doors, where they dropped things, Barry papers, and Honey a phone, I doubt they would have had time to change into shoes. It is a small point, but I think it is important to be very accurate with the description of evidence.

KD's article in the Star today does say shoes. "Both were wearing their shoes and as the documents reveal, police were asking Sherman family and friends if it was the couple’s habit to take off their shoes when they came home — a question nobody could answer conclusively.IMO

 

[ldlager]

Like what??

I don’t know. Looking for a lost dog? Just out for a walk while visiting someone in the neighbourhood? Visiting a woman in the neighbourhood that he was secretly romantically involved with? (BTW in today’s article the walker is described by police as a male). There is no crime in going for a walk. So if the person can be cleared, where does it leave TPS?

It is being reported in the Star tonight by KD that p9lice never showed some of the Sherman’s neighbours the video or pictures of the mystery walker. The first time these neighbours saw this person was when the police video was released to the public. How does that make any sense? For example, If the walker was visiting from overseas and staying at one of the Sherman’s neighbours surely it would have potentially saved LE a couple of years of work by asking the Sherman’s neighbours if they knew or had seen this person!
I just don’t get it.

 

[Window21]

How does that make any sense? For example, If the walker was visiting from overseas and staying at one of the Sherman’s neighbours surely it would have potentially saved LE a couple of years of work by asking the Sherman’s neighbours if they knew or had seen this person!
I just don’t get it.

IMO, there has been A LOT of miss steps with the police department in this case. It's almost like they are trying to NOT solve this case. My irrational side of me thinks they are connected to this hit man....my common sense tells me I watch to many crime shows with dirty cops lol...

 

[William_60]

IMO, there has been A LOT of miss steps with the police department in this case. It's almost like they are trying to NOT solve this case. My irrational side of me thinks they are connected to this hit man....my common sense tells me I watch to many crime shows with dirty cops lol...

Well, it IS frustrating. The M/S determination, which delayed the checkered flag to launch a murder investigation, is particularly annoying, today.

With the number of enemies Barry Sherman had…and the 160 break-ins in the neighbourhood…talk about a rush to judgement.

And with all those break’n’enters, and contentious court cases, Barry didn’t see fit to outfit the home with top notch security systems and cameras???

I wonder how many of his neighbours were equally nonchalant and how many scrambled to update and tighten their home security after The News broke.

Get the sick feeling sometimes the group behind the murders are smugly chuckling that the M/S ‘display’ worked, causing what just might prove to be a critical and insurmountable delay in getting on the right track and gathering key evidence.

- - -

Took a screen shot of (part of) the most logical and likely route The Night Walker took Dec. 13., using Google Search.

Want to copy and paste it here, but my iphone can’t grasp the photo.

Google Search says it’s a 14-minute walk from 50 Old Colony Rd., to 59 Bannatyne. Looks like 6-7 mins from “59” to Leslie, so, roughly 20 mins.

The NW wasn’t walking noticeably fast, but he wasn’t Sunday strolling, either.

I’d guess at the pace he was walking in the video, he covered the stretch from “50” to Leslie in about 15-16 mins.

I walk fast and a lot - 15K per day - and at my typical pace of 9 mins per K, it would take me about 12-13 minutes to go from “50” to Leslie.

 

[SUSAN ANN]

Does anybody have an answer for the question as to what the killer was doing in the house for three hours if he truly left at midnight? If Barry got home at 9 PM wouldn’t he have been killed instantly? What was going on in there?

 

[deugirtni]

Does anybody have an answer for the question as to what the killer was doing in the house for three hours if he truly left at midnight? If Barry got home at 9 PM wouldn’t he have been killed instantly? What was going on in there?

Nobody said he left at midnight.. the '9pm to midnight' window is the timeframe for the murders which was assumed by Kevin Donovan, since police told him they believe the couple died on December 13th (and it's the 13th only until midnight), and we've been told B penned his final email at around 8:30pm from his office, before heading home. The murders could've happened anytime within those hours, could've taken a short time or a longer time, could've been done one right after the other, or spread apart a bit more, could've left right away afterwards or hung around for a bit (doubtful?). LE haven't disclosed actual times this 'night walker' was seen in the area.

A few assumptions seem to have been made along the way, based on little clues uncovered from various sources, imho. (ie such as it has always been reported from the earliest days that the couple were wearing their coats and boots, so it was assumed they must've been ambushed upon entering the home. It seems the coats and boots were reported to have been seen by one or more of the people who were there when the bodies were discovered, so it became 'fact'.)

 

[deugirtni]

Detectives sought ‘tower dump’ of all cellular communication around Barry and Honey Sherman’s home, Barry’s office, documents reveal
''Dec. 27, 2021
The Toronto Star has won access in court to police investigative documents in the now four-year old, unsolved Barry and Honey Sherman murder case. Last week, we detailed the results of the first year of the homicide probe, how intensive interviews with Sherman family, friends and business associates led detectives to check 35 cellular telephones to see if their owners were stalking the Shermans. In today’s instalment, the Star reveals how empty-handed investigators decided to cast a wider net.

If you were on the streets around the Toronto home of murder victims Barry and Honey Sherman on July 25, 2018, you would have seen a youngish-looking Toronto police officer making a series of calls on a cellular telephone, then methodically recording the results in a notebook. That was Det.-Const. Dennis Yim of the Toronto police homicide unit.''

Just FYI for those that want to read the full article, it also appears at this link where there is no paywall (in addition to several others as well). ETA: I didn't realize, but it seems the original article also has no paywall:

Detectives sought ‘tower dump’ of all cellular communication around Barry and Honey Sherman’s home, Barry’s office, documents reveal

 

[Andreee]

I have to summarize to comply with the copyright rule (emphasis mine):

- Barry was tied at the wrists before he died. (My note: KD doesn’t say that Honey was also tied in this article).

-Both Shermans were strangled with a thin ligature.

-after they were killed, they were placed onto the position in which they were found, kept in place by belts attached to the pool railing.

-Honey and Barry were both wearing shoes. KD wrote that Sherman family and friends were asked what footwear Honey and Barry wore on the home, but the answers were inconclusive. (My note: Alex seemed to recall. Quote from previous Star article— “Police also interviewed daughter Alexandra (Alex) Sherman and her husband Brad Krawczyk. (The couple have since separated). In her interview, Alex is asked about shoes and she says her mother wore a pair of “black slip-on shoes” in the house and outside the home.” People had reason to ‘hurt’ Barry and Honey Sherman, son tells Toronto police in early days of the investigation )

-Barry had his glasses on, undisturbed.

-The video that the police released is the last point they caught the suspect on cctv. He is referred to as ‘the suspected killer’ in police documents.

(My note—my impression is that the killer had a burner phone based on the excerpt dotr posted above.)

Interesting thanks for this. Just a minor note, I know earlier reports said the Shermans were bound together at one point due to the wrist marks. However, now I see it was more of a case of Barry being bound around the wrists individually (and possibly Honey individually as well?). This makes much more sense to me, as it seemed that IMO awkward and difficult for the perp to manoevre and move them around being bound together. I also wonder about the 2 belts, did the perp rummage around their bedroom at some point to find them. If so, quite a rigmarole.

 

[FromGermany1]

When the "tied together" suddenly appeared in texts, I wondered also, if the earlier reporting was wrong or inaccurate, as I had thought for years, they were bound at their wrists, but individually. Always some stumbling block somewhere .....

 

[WINDSOR]

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