CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #17

[deugirtni]

Strange. I live in the GTA and occasionally have pocket dialed 911 in error. The police call back to see if the call is real or not, they have NEVER sent a police resource to my house to confirm this. It seems strange that a police man/woman would have been personally sent to check this out.

You say that 'police call back to see if the call is real or not'... but in this case, they could not get ahold of that cellphone number that made the call. I know people who went several hours north on vacation, and their teenager got their iphone stuck in a lawnchair or something, which was when the iphones had that button to just 'press' which would call 911. They were in the middle of literally nowhere... but police did show up. I don't believe they called first though.. not sure of the circumstances as to why they didn't call (ie did the teenager then turn the phone off? No idea?).

 

[newclues]

I'm not quite caught up yet, but something just occurred to me.

Is this a possibility?:

The killer goes and does the job, and leaves, starts walking, has a burner phone.. he has it set up to connect to whichever wifi network becomes available, he's looking at it and checking it while he's walking at a good pace. A few houses down from the Shermans, the people weren't knowledgeable enough to set their modem/router settings to prevent uninvited strangers from utilizing their wifi network.. the murderer sees he can now connect to someone's wifi, so he connects, and then dials 911.. and hangs up. He immediately removes the battery from the burner, or turns it off, or crushes it with his boot, whatever (or did he first call a cab to meet him a few blocks away, to take him to the airport?). LE receives a hangup 911 call, tries calling back, they get nothing, this burner phone had no voicemail capability, or it was not yet 'set up', etc. So they keep looking into it, and appear the next morning to the nearest address LE can determine the call came from, to ask the homeowners if anyone there called 911. The purpose of the killer calling 911 in the first place, may have been as 'window21' has indicated.. perhaps the hiring party had given that instruction, so that the bodies were found immediately? Or.. not? Because how would the bodies have been found, if LE wouldn't be able to determine from which address the call came? But wait. The purpose of the 911 call was not for LE to find the bodies, it was to make LE think that Honey had called 911 because she was being murdered by her husband!? Thoughts?

Edit to add.... in my theory above, this phone did not have any 'service', it worked solely with 'wifi'.. no wifi connection, no ability to use the phone. The perp would've had to use an app to be able to use it to make a phonecall, which would've been via wifi.

Were we ever told that it may have come from HS's cell phone that was found in the front door hall powder room? Was this phone found turned off? Did the killer erase anything from this phone that may be connected to them?

 

[newclues]

You say that 'police call back to see if the call is real or not'... but in this case, they could not get ahold of that cellphone number that made the call. I know people who went several hours north on vacation, and their teenager got their iphone stuck in a lawnchair or something, which was when the iphones had that button to just 'press' which would call 911. They were in the middle of literally nowhere... but police did show up. I don't believe they called first though.. not sure of the circumstances as to why they didn't call (ie did the teenager then turn the phone off? No idea?).

If LE has to track a cell phone location they have to go to the carrier company to do the last location area search and if the phone has been turned off it may even be harder to do. Maybe HS made a 911 cell phone call that got cut off by the killer. Her cell phone was found in the powder room.

 

[newclues]

After a four year murder investigation, TPS were "elated" thinking that cellular data would help solve this case. It took them some time to be granted warrants to multiple phone servers but it was all in vain, which they found out some months ago.

I think that all they have now is the night walker on surveillance video, which they provided after the cellular evidence was a bust. I again question why they didn't release this video immediately. I can't see any reason how this video could possibly jeopardize their investigation, which is the reason given by TPS for not releasing it four years ago.

Their close to chest, total silence, ignoring media requests and having to be taken to court, not giving statements to the public or asking the public for help hasn't worked out to well for them imo.

I think this video of the person who they think is their main suspect was withheld for four years because they wanted to solve the case without help, and restore their reputation after a widely held belief that they screwed up their initial investigation. jmo

Quote Det.-Const. Dennis Yim:

"At first, that’s what it looked like but by late summer 2021 — just over four months ago — elation turned to dismay.

“We’ve exhausted all the avenues (of the cellular data),” said Toronto police Det.-Const. Dennis Yim during a recent court appearance. “We’ve done comparisons and analysis and those comparisons and analyses have not borne any fruit.”

Kevin Donovan has been fighting an uphill battle from the very beginning in trying to get more information released about this case. Even the released information has parts censored through it.

 

[ldlager]

If you answered and informed LE the call was a mistake, they’d have no need to respond. I know of a situation where somebody called 911 and then decided not to involve police, presumably didn’t answer the call back thinking they’d think it wasn’t important, then the police arrived at their doorstep. But cellphones 911 calls might be different than from a landline because LE wouldn’t be certain of the location the caller was calling from. But I believe 911 calls are taken very seriously, especially if it can’t be determined the call was a mistake.


“If you dial 9-1-1 accidentally, stay on the line and tell us. If you hang up we don’t know if you are okay and will have to call back or, if you’ve called from a landline and we can determine your location, send police to check on you.”
911 Calls Tips | 911 Emergency Dispatcher | 911 Emergency Dispatch

Sure I understand that. But did LE call back the phone number that the 911 call was made to? And when they showed up at the neighbour's house, did they confirm that their number was in fact (or wasnt in fact) the one used too make the 911 call? Or did they just ask them if they called 911?
Given Det Yim's testing of the 911 system by making calls from different locations on the street, it would seem that something was potentially amiss with the 911 system in the area- either through technical issues, or perhaps the system was tampered with by the murderer(s)?

 

[ldlager]

I'm not quite caught up yet, but something just occurred to me.

Is this a possibility?:

The killer goes and does the job, and leaves, starts walking, has a burner phone.. he has it set up to connect to whichever wifi network becomes available, he's looking at it and checking it while he's walking at a good pace. A few houses down from the Shermans, the people weren't knowledgeable enough to set their modem/router settings to prevent uninvited strangers from utilizing their wifi network.. the murderer sees he can now connect to someone's wifi, so he connects, and then dials 911.. and hangs up. He immediately removes the battery from the burner, or turns it off, or crushes it with his boot, whatever (or did he first call a cab to meet him a few blocks away, to take him to the airport?). LE receives a hangup 911 call, tries calling back, they get nothing, this burner phone had no voicemail capability, or it was not yet 'set up', etc. So they keep looking into it, and appear the next morning to the nearest address LE can determine the call came from, to ask the homeowners if anyone there called 911. The purpose of the killer calling 911 in the first place, may have been as 'window21' has indicated.. perhaps the hiring party had given that instruction, so that the bodies were found immediately? Or.. not? Because how would the bodies have been found, if LE wouldn't be able to determine from which address the call came? But wait. The purpose of the 911 call was not for LE to find the bodies, it was to make LE think that Honey had called 911 because she was being murdered by her husband!? Thoughts?

Edit to add.... in my theory above, this phone did not have any 'service', it worked solely with 'wifi'.. no wifi connection, no ability to use the phone. The perp would've had to use an app to be able to use it to make a phonecall, which would've been via wifi.

Interesting theory! I wonder why it would be important to the people responsible to have the bodies discovered quickly?
One thought- I think LE would have been able to confirm whether HS actually called 911 by looking at her previous calls on her cell phone?

 

[WINDSOR]

I'm not quite caught up yet, but something just occurred to me.

Is this a possibility?:

The killer goes and does the job, and leaves, starts walking, has a burner phone.. he has it set up to connect to whichever wifi network becomes available, he's looking at it and checking it while he's walking at a good pace. A few houses down from the Shermans, the people weren't knowledgeable enough to set their modem/router settings to prevent uninvited strangers from utilizing their wifi network.. the murderer sees he can now connect to someone's wifi, so he connects, and then dials 911.. and hangs up. He immediately removes the battery from the burner, or turns it off, or crushes it with his boot, whatever (or did he first call a cab to meet him a few blocks away, to take him to the airport?). LE receives a hangup 911 call, tries calling back, they get nothing, this burner phone had no voicemail capability, or it was not yet 'set up', etc. So they keep looking into it, and appear the next morning to the nearest address LE can determine the call came from, to ask the homeowners if anyone there called 911. The purpose of the killer calling 911 in the first place, may have been as 'window21' has indicated.. perhaps the hiring party had given that instruction, so that the bodies were found immediately? Or.. not? Because how would the bodies have been found, if LE wouldn't be able to determine from which address the call came? But wait. The purpose of the 911 call was not for LE to find the bodies, it was to make LE think that Honey had called 911 because she was being murdered by her husband!? Thoughts?

Edit to add.... in my theory above, this phone did not have any 'service', it worked solely with 'wifi'.. no wifi connection, no ability to use the phone. The perp would've had to use an app to be able to use it to make a phone call, which would've been via wifi.

*Did the NW walk past the house the Police checked on for the 911 call. That would be important for the theory to be valid.
* My understanding is that the 911 call was from a landline, not a cell phone. That is why the Police went to that address. Please correct me if I am wrong.
* Killers rarely have a conscience, but if they wanted the bodies to be discovered much simpler to have an associate call from a pay phone from some where distant, like Union Station.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

*Did the NW walk past the house the Police checked on for the 911 call. That would be important for the theory to be valid.
* My understanding is that the 911 call was from a landline, not a cell phone. That is why the Police went to that address. Please correct me if I am wrong.
* Killers rarely have a conscience, but if they wanted the bodies to be discovered much simpler to have an associate call from a pay phone from some where distant, like Union Station.

Re-post info about the 911 call:

“On the Thursday morning at 9:45 a.m., a full day before the Sherman bodies were discovered, homeowners down the road from the Shermans answered a knock on their door. The Star has agreed not to identify the homeowners or their exact address. They live roughly 10 houses away on Old Colony, near Bayview Ave. and Hwy. 401.

The man at the door was a uniformed police officer asking if someone in their home had made a 911 call. The homeowners said no. The officer shared few details, but said police believed it came from the homeowners’ house, but did not say if the call had come from a cellular phone or a landline. The officer did not say what time the call came in…

…The homeowners who had the visit from police checked with Bell and Rogers and were told there was no evidence of a glitch, crossed wires or a 911 call coming from their house.

…Numerous questions have sprung to the mind of the homeowners. Did the police have the wrong address when they came to knock on the homeowners’ door? Did the call come from a cellphone which then hung up and police were not able to get the exact location? Had the call come from 50 Old Colony Rd.?…

…Given the location of Old Colony Rd., a dead-end street on the east and accessed off Bayview (a main thoroughfare) from the west, it is likely that a police officer would have passed the car parked in front of the Sherman home that Thursday morning on the way to check out the 911 call.”

Barry and Honey Sherman’s neighbours cite mysterious 911 call, visitor on day before billionaires found dead | The Star

The last paragraph answers which part of the street the 911 call apparently came from if the police passed the Shermans’ home—and it’s close to the possible route the suspect took:

Blue is the google-suggested route of the suspect, the red highlighted part is the approximate area of the home where the police responded to the 911 call—my view only, based on what Donovan wrote.

Image from Google maps

 

[ldlager]

*Did the NW walk past the house the Police checked on for the 911 call. That would be important for the theory to be valid.
* My understanding is that the 911 call was from a landline, not a cell phone. That is why the Police went to that address. Please correct me if I am wrong.
* Killers rarely have a conscience, but if they wanted the bodies to be discovered much simpler to have an associate call from a pay phone from some where distant, like Union Station.

Or Israel or Iran

 

[dotr]

Or Israel or Iran

2019
Are shadowy agents targeting Canadians who criticize an Israeli spyware firm? - National | Globalnews.ca
''He hurried through the lobby to the hotel’s five-star restaurant, the Clement, praying that the microphone hidden under his tie was still working, and that his lunch date hadn’t bailed.

He felt like a mess as he moved through the swanky hotel. He worried his whole plan was about to fall apart because of a bit of traffic on the way over.

Scott-Railton was set to meet with Michel Lambert, a wealthy entrepreneur who promised him a lucrative business opportunity — one that paid far better than his spyware-hunting job at Citizen Lab in Toronto.

But he says he knew the man he ultimately sat down with for dinner that afternoon was not a businessman named Michel Lambert. According to Scott-Railton, he was an ex-spy from Israel operating under a false name.'

ETA
Toronto-based Citizen Lab, which exposed Israeli spy software, targeted by undercover agents | Globalnews.ca

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Did BS get the home inspection certificate from his lawyer and was he going to give it to his real estate agent? When was this certificate from? When was a home inspection made?

Good questions, was there an offer on the table and a certificate was required?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Good questions, was there an offer on the table and a certificate was required?

There was an offer, but it was too low. So it didn’t get to the phase where an inspection could take place, imo. ETA: The inspection was ordered by the Shermans, imo.

 

[Satchie]

Kevin Donovan has been fighting an uphill battle from the very beginning in trying to get more information released about this case. Even the released information has parts censored through it.

IMO, all members of the Canadian media know perfectly well that Canadian police do not release much information to the public about ongoing investigations. This is the complete opposite of a 'sunshine' environment, it's pitch dark until the trial, across Canada.

For some unknown reason, the Star decided to try to crack this case themselves - as did, initially, the Sherman family.

Well, the Sherman family gave up years ago. No other news outlets have ever joined the Star in their court actions for judicial release. I guess you could choose to spin that as heroic, but there are other interpretations that can be made.

JMO

 

[deugirtni]

Interesting theory! I wonder why it would be important to the people responsible to have the bodies discovered quickly?
One thought- I think LE would have been able to confirm whether HS actually called 911 by looking at her previous calls on her cell phone?

As I was writing that reply, it dawned on me that perhaps the purpose wasn't to get the bodies found as quickly as possible at all, but rather, by the time the bodies did get discovered, there would be this question in the air about a potential 911 call made from a party unknown just within the vicinity of their home.

Also, when I think about that scenario in conjunction with the cellphone being found by the cleaning lady apparently on the powder room counter (apparently the powder room by the front door of the house (according to the video The Star made) which powder room Honey was said by her friends to never use) - I am wondering if the killer may have even put H's cellphone there as part of the 'staging'.. whatever staging existed to make it seem to LE that it was a M/S, as opposed to a double homicide - with the idea being to make LE think H had been trying to make a phonecall to 911 as she was being attacked by her predator, who was possibly her husband. LE would definitely be able to tell if H's phone had dialled 911, but maybe the idea was to make LE think that she had tried to call, and been unsuccessful.?

 

[Gina20]

Relative believes 'someone was making a statement' in murder of Barry and Honey Sherman, unsealed documents show

Making a statement about politically incorrect language?

The ITOs show that in her second interview with police, Honey Sherman’s sister, Mary Shechtman, suggested the person responsible for the murders was “making a statement” and that she believed the motive for the killings may have been motivated by religion.

"The Shermans were strong supporters of Israel and Honey was very vocal about being Jewish,” Shechtman said. “There were a lot of people of a certain ethnicity going through the house at a certain time and Honey would use phrases that were not politically correct."

 

[Kaley Smith]

Relative believes 'someone was making a statement' in murder of Barry and Honey Sherman, unsealed documents show

Making a statement about politically incorrect language?

The ITOs show that in her second interview with police, Honey Sherman’s sister, Mary Shechtman, suggested the person responsible for the murders was “making a statement” and that she believed the motive for the killings may have been motivated by religion.

"The Shermans were strong supporters of Israel and Honey was very vocal about being Jewish,” Shechtman said. “There were a lot of people of a certain ethnicity going through the house at a certain time and Honey would use phrases that were not politically correct."

Well that's an interesting theory. I've been thinking all along it was motivated by Sherman's business enemies.

 

[Kaley Smith]

Long but interesting report of how things unfolded after the murder. I know this goes back, but some new members may need to get up to speed or, like me, need a refresher.
It's been 3 years since Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead. Court documents reveal what we know so far

 

[FromGermany1]

Relative believes 'someone was making a statement' in murder of Barry and Honey Sherman, unsealed documents show

Making a statement about politically incorrect language?

The ITOs show that in her second interview with police, Honey Sherman’s sister, Mary Shechtman, suggested the person responsible for the murders was “making a statement” and that she believed the motive for the killings may have been motivated by religion.

"The Shermans were strong supporters of Israel and Honey was very vocal about being Jewish,” Shechtman said. “There were a lot of people of a certain ethnicity going through the house at a certain time and Honey would use phrases that were not politically correct."

bbm

Honey wasn't Barry's mouthpiece; he had an opinion of his own, I suppose. But he got murdered also ......

May I say: a very sad and very shocked sister of a murder victim I picture differently. I had the impression, MS didn't really seem real in her deep sorrow during her speech at the memorial. - I didn't know until now, when I saw more of the video.

 

[deugirtni]

Relative believes 'someone was making a statement' in murder of Barry and Honey Sherman, unsealed documents show

Making a statement about politically incorrect language?

The ITOs show that in her second interview with police, Honey Sherman’s sister, Mary Shechtman, suggested the person responsible for the murders was “making a statement” and that she believed the motive for the killings may have been motivated by religion.

"The Shermans were strong supporters of Israel and Honey was very vocal about being Jewish,” Shechtman said. “There were a lot of people of a certain ethnicity going through the house at a certain time and Honey would use phrases that were not politically correct."

That's not how I'm reading it?

MS is saying the 'person responsible for the murders' was 'making a statement'... so per MS, the murderer was one of the people close enough to the Shermans to have been making a police statement, imo. She doesn't say what that person's statement would be about.

She 'believed the motive may have been motivated by religion'. She said H was very vocal about being Jewish, and that at a 'certain time' there were 'a lot' of 'people of a certain ethnicity' going through the house, and that H would 'use phrases that were not politically correct'.

So 'a lot of people of a certain ethnicity' (which presumably were not Jews) were 'going through the house' and it sounds like H was perhaps speaking about them in a socially unacceptable way (in front of them perhaps??). (Possibly racial slurs?) And seemingly, the person who MS believes would've been greatly offended by this, was making a statement... but not necessarily about that in particular. imo. (Although, after MS's statement enlightening police, police may have specifically asked said person about the particular politically incorrect references?)

So why would 'a lot of people of a certain ethnicity' be 'going through the house at a certain time'? Was it in conjunction with the house being for sale, ie realtors/potential buyers? Or perhaps people working on the home to prepare it for sale? Or.. ?? imo.

 

[MistyWaters]

That's not how I'm reading it?

MS is saying the 'person responsible for the murders' was 'making a statement'... so per MS, the murderer was one of the people close enough to the Shermans to have been making a police statement, imo. She doesn't say what that person's statement would be about.

She 'believed the motive may have been motivated by religion'. She said H was very vocal about being Jewish, and that at a 'certain time' there were 'a lot' of 'people of a certain ethnicity' going through the house, and that H would 'use phrases that were not politically correct'.

So 'a lot of people of a certain ethnicity' (which presumably were not Jews) were 'going through the house' and it sounds like H was perhaps speaking about them in a socially unacceptable way (in front of them perhaps??). (Possibly racial slurs?) And seemingly, the person who MS believes would've been greatly offended by this, was making a statement... but not necessarily about that in particular. imo. (Although, after MS's statement enlightening police, police may have specifically asked said person about the particular politically incorrect references?)

So why would 'a lot of people of a certain ethnicity' be 'going through the house at a certain time'? Was it in conjunction with the house being for sale, ie realtors/potential buyers? Or perhaps people working on the home to prepare it for sale? Or.. ?? imo.

A statement is made by the act of murder including body positioning, she says nothing about witness statements to police. “Making a statement” is a fairly common reference, could be something as simple as a big lock on a gate means no access.

BBM
“A cache of unsealed documents related to the murder of Barry and Honey Sherman is revealing new details about the investigation into the deaths of the Toronto billionaire couple, including an interview with one relative who believes "someone was making a statement" in their killings.”….

The ITOs show that in her second interview with police, Honey Sherman’s sister, Mary Shechtman, suggested the person responsible for the murders was “making a statement” and that she believed the motive for the killings may have been motivated by religion……

Relative believes 'someone was making a statement' in murder of Barry and Honey Sherman, unsealed documents show