CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #17

[MistyWaters]

Not really. He recouped $ but then had to pay to have the house repaired.
Anyways, BS wouldnt I'm sure have lost much or any sleep about the selling price of the home and the resultng profit or loss. $6 million, while alot to most of us, wasnt alot to BS in the grand scheme of things.

I agree. In Canada he could’ve only sued for costs and expenses. He didn’t make any money off the faulty construction by the shoddy contractors and he certainly didn’t get the home for free.

Considering his net worth of billions, I also doubt that he was stressed over the selling price. While he may have been frugal, he wasn’t stupid. The Sherman home was nothing compared to the mansions that lined the street.

 

[MistyWaters]

I meant he was in the middle of reading them/thinking about them. They were the main thing on his mind at the time, if they were the only thing in his hand. JMO

The purpose of staging a crime scene to deceive and the killer/s had several hours to make whatever appear as they wanted. So I don’t think we can know for sure that Barry even dropped the inspection report. Maybe the killers wanted the crime scene to appear as m/s and the couple were feuding over the sale and construction of their dream home? In the early days, that was a popular theory.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

AFAIK there has never been any disclosures or writing about household staff that was scheduled to work Thursday. But it is possible that they never worked Thursdays at the Shermans either.
I do not recall any report of a fitness trainer arriving Thursday. Friday yes, and they were refused entry to the home buy the police. As far as I remember.

Honey’s assistant normally worked every day at the home, but had taken Thursday and Friday off:

“Monday, Dec. 11: Sheila Stanley, Honey’s personal assistant, arrives as she always does at 10 a.m. at Old Colony. She works for Honey each weekday from 10 a.m. to 2:30 p.m. As she later tells the police she manages Honey’s schedule, makes her bill payments and even helps “dressing Honey for events.” Honey’s sister Mary handles travel plans. Honey’s schedule is accessible from her iPhone and iPad and as Stanley tells police, no password is needed. The one major change to the week is that Stanley has been given Thursday and Friday off because her family is heading to Mexico for a winter vacation.”
Did someone know Barry and Honey Sherman’s schedule? Close friends were away and they had nothing planned

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Doesn’t the last Star article make it sound as though the investigation has come to an impasse, except for final work on the POIs?

““The investigation has gone on to a different phase,” said Yim, but he did not describe what he meant. The documents show police have received two batches of information, apparently from people they had previously interviewed. The pages describing that information are completely redacted (even the headings), and police say to reveal this would hurt their probe by revealing “persons of interest.””

Barry and Honey Sherman murder detectives learn cellular ‘tower dump’ was a bust | The Star

 

[deugirtni]

RSBM

....
Did the killer(s) expect the bodies would be discovered on Thursday?

In fact they could have left Barry's papers and Honey's phone strewn about, so the household staff working on Thursday would recognize something amiss and go searching around the house.
But nobody did.

1) Was there household staff in the house on Thursday? Or was everybody off?
I believe a fitness trainer stopped in on Thursday, did not gain entry and after trying several times left. To me this points to the fact no regular staff were working. Did the killers know this?

2) If the killer(s) knew there was no staff in on Thursday, one could believe the killers planned it so they would have Thursday as a getaway day.

3) Who knew the staff schedules if Thursday was an off day?

4) Were the killers surprised or did they expect the bodies not to be found until Friday?

5) Was there any notification on the Real Estate sales listing about what days showing could or could not be arranged?

AFAIK there has never been any disclosures or writing about household staff that was scheduled to work Thursday. But it is possible that they never worked Thursdays at the Shermans either.
I do not recall any report of a fitness trainer arriving Thursday. Friday yes, and they were refused entry to the home buy the police. As far as I remember.

Honey’s assistant normally worked every day at the home, but had taken Thursday and Friday off:

“Monday, Dec. 11: Sheila Stanley, Honey’s personal assistant, arrives as she always does at 10 a.m. at Old Colony. She works for Honey each weekday from 10 a.m. to 2:30 p.m. As she later tells the police she manages Honey’s schedule, makes her bill payments and even helps “dressing Honey for events.” Honey’s sister Mary handles travel plans. Honey’s schedule is accessible from her iPhone and iPad and as Stanley tells police, no password is needed. The one major change to the week is that Stanley has been given Thursday and Friday off because her family is heading to Mexico for a winter vacation.”
Did someone know Barry and Honey Sherman’s schedule? Close friends were away and they had nothing planned

All of that said, while it is definitely interesting that H's personal assistant had planned to be absent on both the Thursday and Friday, there is really nothing to indicate that the killer wanted to delay the bodies being found until Friday.. it seems they were dead before midnight on the Wednesday and seems LE believe the killer left the scene by that time, so to be found or not be found on the Thursday may have been inconsequential to the plan. The killer wouldn't be able to rely on that information anyway, since H could've made arrangements on her own to meet with someone at the house on the Thursday, such as perhaps asking the cleaning lady to come in to help prepare something (as she was said to be scheduled to do on the Friday). It would be interesting to know however, who knew about the assistant's plan, if anyone. imo.

 

[deugirtni]

Yes, it was my speculation based on someone else's speculation. The fact he was carrying them in his hand suggests to me that they were something he was "in the middle of." Something was going on, more than him just bringing them to the realtor. JMO

I've bought and sold a lot of houses. I had buyers once renegotiate the price after getting an inspection report. The only times I've ordered an inspection report (as the homeowner) was 1) getting a refinance and 2) when I was planning to sell privately. Otherwise, I've always just let the buyer get them and pay for them. Maybe it's different on a million-dollar home? You want to know how much the buyer is going to try to negotiate you down.

I thought it was believed Barry was attacked as he came from the attached garage entering the house carrying his gloves and papers and so he dropped them, not that he was in the middle of anything?

I meant he was in the middle of reading them/thinking about them. They were the main thing on his mind at the time, if they were the only thing in his hand. JMO

The purpose of staging a crime scene to deceive and the killer/s had several hours to make whatever appear as they wanted. So I don’t think we can know for sure that Barry even dropped the inspection report. Maybe the killers wanted the crime scene to appear as m/s and the couple were feuding over the sale and construction of their dream home? In the early days, that was a popular theory.

It seems the Shermans proactively paid for a home inspection to be done in conjunction with selling their home. Many people do this to find out ahead of time what a buyer's home inspector may find when they pay to have one done.. and it is common that if the buyer's home inspector finds something of importance, the buyers will knock off much more of their already-offered-and-accepted price, than the actual cost would be of having the work done (a buyer's home inspection is not normally done until after an offer is accepted, conditional upon a home inspection (and perhaps other things)). This would give the realtor ammunition if potential buyers were to start balking about the house needing a new roof, or whatever, and allow the realtor an opportunity to perhaps highlight some of the positive things in the inspection. Imo only.

According to MSM, the Sherman's realtor had asked B to bring home the inspection report from his office .. which he did, as asked.. and of course, when he did so, he would presumably bring it into the house with him. To me, that doesn't signify that his mind was on the inspection, it seems he was merely taking care of business (home business) and bringing in with him something from his car. It also doesn't seem odd to me that the realtor didn't just take it with her, even though it was apparently the realtor that requested it. She may not have been the same realtor who requested it (the home's for-sale sign said it was listed by Judi Gottlieb); secondly, to me it is inappropriate for someone to just take something when they see it, even though they may have asked for it and been told they would get it, until it is actually handed over, just my opinion. Thirdly, she was likely wondering what the hay was going on, since IIRC, I believe she and others had been trying to contact Honey about home-showings (could be mistaken on that???), and then as she's showing the home she sees a binder or stack of paper, whatever, and gloves lying on the floor in the basement level, ie a 'mess' in the multi-million dollar home, and even though there seems to be a cleaning lady, etc. She likely just scooped it up as quickly as possible and stuck it on the ledge without even looking at it, hoping the others didn't see it. Not a big deal, but out of place when everything else in the house may have been photo-worthy. imo.

It appears...Barry was attacked in the basement as he exited the underground garage. His winter gloves and a home inspection report he had promised their real estate agent he would bring home were found on the floor in a hallway leading to the pool room.

Cops did not access Apotex founder Barry Sherman’s office until four weeks after the murders of Sherman and his wife Honey

Insiders have told the Star that Barry had the paper copy of the inspection report at his office, and had said he would bring it home. The inspection report was found on the tiled floor of the hallway, with Barry’s gloves on top of it. Not realizing they were in a crime scene, the realtor picked up the report and gloves and placed them on a knee-high ledge that ran along the hallway.

Barry and Honey Sherman’s bodies were found posed like the sculptures in their basement

 

[juli99]

I agree. In Canada he could’ve only sued for costs and expenses. He didn’t make any money off the faulty construction by the shoddy contractors and he certainly didn’t get the home for free.

Considering his net worth of billions, I also doubt that he was stressed over the selling price. While he may have been frugal, he wasn’t stupid. The Sherman home was nothing compared to the mansions that lined the street.

I don't feel like he was stressed. He didn't buy cheap belts or burn out cars because he was worried about money. He did it because either he didn't see the point in wasting money on things he didn't value, or because it was a game... a way to make money. The only time he wasted money was on bad investments with family. I think when it came to the houses, he didn't want to waste a penny. Hence, the lawsuits on the existing house. JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

I don't feel like he was stressed. He didn't buy cheap belts or burn out cars because he was worried about money. He did it because either he didn't see the point in wasting money on things he didn't value, or because it was a game... a way to make money. The only time he wasted money was on bad investments with family. I think when it came to the houses, he didn't want to waste a penny. Hence, the lawsuits on the existing house. JMO

The lawsuits were for faulty construction, not because he was frugal. No one has claimed Barry was opposed to the construction of the new dream home. Even if he had been, that’s an unlikely motive for someone murdering both him and his wife.

 

[branmuffin]

The lawsuits were for faulty construction, not because he was frugal. No one has claimed Barry was opposed to the construction of the new dream home. Even if he had been, that’s an unlikely motive for someone murdering both him and his wife.

I think he was resigned to the move. It says in the Maclean's magazine article he was not on the move but deferred to Honey's wishes.

Edited my post to include the word 'not'. Barry was not keen on the move. sorry for the confusion.

 

[MistyWaters]

I think he was resigned to the move. It says in the Maclean's magazine article he was keen on the move but deferred to Honey's wishes.

It was probably somewhat a matter of practicality as well. The design of a family home where aging seniors have lived for decades eventually becomes difficult to navigate. Honey was said to not do stairs, yet that house on Old Colony Road was filled with spiral staircases up and down.

 

[branmuffin]

It was probably somewhat a matter of practicality as well. The design of a family home where aging seniors have lived for decades eventually becomes difficult to navigate. Honey was said to not do stairs, yet that house on Old Colony Road was filled with spiral staircases up and down.

I had to correct my post. Barry was not keen on the move but deferred to Honey's wishes. But I agree the house was so impractical from a mobility pov.

 

[WINDSOR]

AFAIK there has never been any disclosures or writing about household staff that was scheduled to work Thursday. But it is possible that they never worked Thursdays at the Shermans either.
I do not recall any report of a fitness trainer arriving Thursday. Friday yes, and they were refused entry to the home buy the police. As far as I remember.

Toronto Star 25 Mar 2019
While Barry and Honey Sherman lay dead in the basement of their Toronto home, a lone man went in and out of their house three times, according to an account of security camera footage seized by Toronto police.
Between 9:11 a.m. and 10:16 a.m. on Dec. 14, 2017, the man walked from a four door sedan parked in front of the Sherman house on Old Colony Rd., appeared to enter the house through the front door, then came back outside.
He did this three times, for a total of 29 minutes inside the Sherman home, before driving off

December 14, 2017 was the Thursday.

This is the report regarding the man who came to the Sherman home on Thursday. He has been since identified as a fitness trainer. We know Sheila Stanley, H's assistant was off, and there has been no mention of other staff working that day. It appears to me there was no Sherman staff in the house on Thursday to talk to the trainer or discover any dead bodies.

What is significant about this fact is it possibly points to the killer's knowledge of the Sherman household activities, either through surveillance and/or access to inside information.

Time of the bodies discovery could have been very important, for either reasons of alibi or a clean escape. To me having an extra 24 hours to get away before the police even knew about the crime would seem like a big advantage.

If the killers did not care when the bodies were discovered, they could more easily left them in plain site.

 

[Window21]

A little off topic, but I was watching several interviews last night with Sammy Gravano "The Bull" as many of you may know, he was a hit man.
He said in his interview he would study every detail about a person before he killed them. He said he had blinders on until he got the job done. He also talked about how he had a team to help him. It was so interesting, and it made me think about this being a professional hit on BS and HS.

We must assume if this was a professional hit then yes the hit man knew absolutely everything. Staffs schedules, HS and BS every single move. Probably their bathroom schedule, that's how intently hit men study their "Contract hit"
Sammy said it's not the hit man you need to worry about, it's the one that ordered the hit.
Just something I found interesting.
Here is a link if anyone is fascinated in this guy like I am

Start at the 1hr 18 min mark: planning a hit!

There is another interview with him if interested. This one is over 2 hrs

 

[juli99]

Toronto Star 25 Mar 2019
While Barry and Honey Sherman lay dead in the basement of their Toronto home, a lone man went in and out of their house three times, according to an account of security camera footage seized by Toronto police.
Between 9:11 a.m. and 10:16 a.m. on Dec. 14, 2017, the man walked from a four door sedan parked in front of the Sherman house on Old Colony Rd., appeared to enter the house through the front door, then came back outside.
He did this three times, for a total of 29 minutes inside the Sherman home, before driving off

December 14, 2017 was the Thursday.

This is the report regarding the man who came to the Sherman home on Thursday. He has been since identified as a fitness trainer. We know Sheila Stanley, H's assistant was off, and there has been no mention of other staff working that day. It appears to me there was no Sherman staff in the house on Thursday to talk to the trainer or discover any dead bodies.

What is significant about this fact is it possibly points to the killer's knowledge of the Sherman household activities, either through surveillance and/or access to inside information.

Time of the bodies discovery could have been very important, for either reasons of alibi or a clean escape. To me having an extra 24 hours to get away before the police even knew about the crime would seem like a big advantage.

If the killers did not care when the bodies were discovered, they could more easily left them in plain site.

If they have this security footage, why don't they have footage of what happened the night before?

 

[newclues]

If they have this security footage, why don't they have footage of what happened the night before?

Great Point.

 

[MistyWaters]

If they have this security footage, why don't they have footage of what happened the night before?

They must have something but LE haven’t said how they believe the culprit/s gained access to the house that night or if it was from the front door. At one point while LE still had the home secured off iirc they were on the roof investigating the sky lights. And a side door was apparently unlocked as well.

 

[newclues]

They must have something but LE haven’t said how they believe the culprit/s gained access to the house that night or if it was from the front door. At one point while LE still had the home secured off iirc they were on the roof investigating the sky lights. And a side door was apparently unlocked as well.

There is the unlocked door in the basement that LE found which had stairs leading up to the backyard. Thus, it is believed that the suspect came and went this way to avoid any cameras across from the street.

 

[newclues]

A little off topic, but I was watching several interviews last night with Sammy Gravano "The Bull" as many of you may know, he was a hit man.
He said in his interview he would study every detail about a person before he killed them. He said he had blinders on until he got the job done. He also talked about how he had a team to help him. It was so interesting, and it made me think about this being a professional hit on BS and HS.

We must assume if this was a professional hit then yes the hit man knew absolutely everything. Staffs schedules, HS and BS every single move. Probably their bathroom schedule, that's how intently hit men study their "Contract hit"
Sammy said it's not the hit man you need to worry about, it's the one that ordered the hit.
Just something I found interesting.
Here is a link if anyone is fascinated in this guy like I am

Start at the 1hr 18 min mark: planning a hit!

There is another interview with him if interested. This one is over 2 hrs

Given that this appears to be a professional hit with a behind the scenes team working together with an assassin, there must be deep pockets behind it. In order to grease the wheels more, the reward should go up to get better information to come forth from some holding back so far.

 

[Window21]

Given that this appears to be a professional hit with a behind the scenes team working together with an assassin, there must be deep pockets behind it. In order to grease the wheels more, the reward should go up to get better information to come forth from some holding back so far.

They say it may be a professional hit, but they never said there is a team working together to execute the hit. For all we know there may just be the hit man and the person that hired him.

When I said a team working with the hit man I was referring to the way Sammy the bull operated. He was the underboss of John Gotti. No connection at all to the BS and HS murders. I was just using that as reference.

 

[WINDSOR]

If they have this security footage, why don't they have footage of what happened the night before?

I am sure the TPS have the footage, however if the killer came onto Sherman's property through the back yard, and entered the house that way, the security footage of the front of the house would not show it. I believe the camera recording was located across the street from the Sherman's.