CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #17

[WINDSOR]

Regarding the Thursday Dec 14 visitor. Since he had a key, he had to be known and trusted by the Sherman household. Secondly it appears there was no staff in the house when he arrived. He could even have been a friend or relative. He could have been an Apotex employee sent to see why nobody at Apotex had heard or seen Barry that morning.

 

[juli99]

I don’t think BS was opposed to building a new home. I think he probably saw it as an opportunity to make some money. After all, how many people are able to successfully sue the designers and contractors of your previous home for roughly 90 percent of the cost (winning most via forced settlement)?

Kind of makes you wonder just how comprehensive that inspection list might’ve been for the upcoming 50 Old Colony sale.

Imo, litigation was a way of life for BS, both in business and in personal matters - which imo were still business matters (on the plains of the Serengeti, anyway). I think that’s how he acquired Empire. I think it’s how he built Apotex. I think it’s how he made his fortune. And I think it’s how he reduced the final outlay for the house on Old Colony. All just my opinion.

A 12/19/17 Star article states: “After litigation against the house’s designers and builders they wound up recouping 2 million of the contracted amount to construct the home” (which was 2.3 million). If there was poor design or shoddy workmanship, why didn’t the designers and builders just fix it, or build them a new house (like happens with everybody else). No, I suspect they (and/or their insurance companies) knew they weren’t going to be able to hold their breath as long as BS, so they settled. So it sounds like the end result was that BS paid 300k for a 2.3 million dollar home.

It almost sounds like a way of doing business - or even an approach to life.

I don’t think anybody would argue that civil suits were BS’s specialty. An army of highly skilled attorneys specializing in pharmaceutical law, patent law, taxes, and anything else that BS got involved with (including collateralized loans to relatives, business associates, friends and cousins). It appears to me that he was a lawsuit machine. In my opinion, in the event of a suit, only the deep pocketed could ever do anything but settle with BS. If you chose to ride it out, the damage was going to be already done - the market saturated and the cupboard bare by the time a long drawn-out court case was settled or resolved by the courts. Better to cut your losses and run. In poker it’s called folding.

In my opinion, BS’s real “ business” and his real “business skill” was litigation (some would say abuse of the courts). The pharmaceutical industry just happened to be tailor made (especially at that time, incl. with Empire) for BS’s tactics. Sometimes there were hundreds of millions of dollars at stake for winners and losers. Generic meds, corporate espionage, patent infringement, patent expirations (or not), product formula theft, cutting fabrication corners, flooding markets with generics before competitors could respond and/or courts could rule.. Imo, BS was better at it than anybody. Anybody.

KD’s book said: “Canadian courts are filled with hundreds of cases involving Apotex. The battles were lengthy, sometimes taking decades.”

[…]

In a case in which Sherman sued the US government, ‘The US court filings reveal that in 2009, FDA officials discovered that “Apotex had distributed products in the US market contaminated with hair, glue, plastic, nylon, metal, rust, snd acetate fibers.” And BS was suing THEM! Desai once said: “compliance is a journey”.

[…]

“If a case went against him, Sherman always appealed. He did not give up, no matter the odds.”

What I can’t believe (and I’ve said this before) is that there was still a designer and a builder left in Toronto who were willing to sign a contract to build the Sherman’s new house.

All jmo

I completely agree with all of this. I think if he had built the new house, he would have found a way not to pay for it either.

 

[ldlager]

Regarding the Thursday Dec 14 visitor. Since he had a key, he had to be known and trusted by the Sherman household. Secondly it appears there was no staff in the house when he arrived. He could even have been a friend or relative. He could have been an Apotex employee sent to see why nobody at Apotex had heard or seen Barry that morning.

Has LE ever actually stated or confirmed that this man wet into the house? I know KD has reported that the man went inside, but AFAIK TPS has never stated that this person went inside the house. AFAIK this info came either from Greenspan, or from the neighbour across the street. Have I missed something?

 

[deugirtni]

Has LE ever actually stated or confirmed that this man wet into the house? I know KD has reported that the man went inside, but AFAIK TPS has never stated that this person went inside the house. AFAIK this info came either from Greenspan, or from the neighbour across the street. Have I missed something?

It was only based on the neighbour with the video's narrative as stated to KD. KD has never indicated that he saw the video himself, and Greenspan never acknowledged to KD that this person entered the home, he said it was grainy footage, inconclusive, etc. Whether or not the 'mystery person' entered the home or not, it is still a leap to state that he had a key. imo. IIRC, wasn't it reported at some point that H and/or 'they' never locked their door when they were home? If that is true, then said intruder/murderer would not have required a key at all... (but how would the killer have known this ahead of time, etc.).

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Regarding the Thursday Dec 14 visitor. Since he had a key, he had to be known and trusted by the Sherman household. Secondly it appears there was no staff in the house when he arrived. He could even have been a friend or relative. He could have been an Apotex employee sent to see why nobody at Apotex had heard or seen Barry that morning.

It bugs me because Greenspan said they didn’t know who he was, and I’m curious as to why the police didn’t tell the family. Why not tell reporters?

Had they been alive, Honey was supposed to be at a meeting at 8:30am that morning. Barry arrived late to work most mornings (around 10:00 am or later if he dropped by Alex’s home to see his grandchildren.) So I don’t think anyone would be alarmed by their absence at the time the Thursday visitor arrived at 9:11 am.

The visitor didn’t pull into the driveway, he parked on the street in front of the home—that sounds like what a police officer would do, imo. He spent an hour there, going back and forth to his car.

My guess is that there was a 911 call made that the police couldn’t definitely pinpoint. I read that they can trace an unknown cell call accurately to within 200 metres—that’s within the range of the house where the police officer visited regarding the 911 call. Maybe he visited more homes, but only one shared the information with Donovan. The 911 call may have been made with a cordless phone. (Private number.) Or spoofed to the Sherman home.

It might partly explain why they were test-calling 911 from the Sherman home:

“On Dec. 20, 2017, five days after the bodies were discovered, a Toronto detective was sent to the crime scene at the Sherman home and given a “To-Do List” by a senior detective. The order was to “conduct a 911 test call from the residence.” The detective made a test call that “lasted for 1 minute and 44 seconds” using the landline phone the Shermans had, an old Panasonic phone.

At the same time, detectives examined the Panasonic phone, which keeps the last 10 numbers dialed. What those numbers were is covered by a court seal. Using this information, police obtained a production order from Pringle to check incoming and outgoing calls from the Panasonic phone.

The Star was particularly interested in this 911 test because several years ago, at the urging of one of the Sherman children, the Star looked into a report that a 911 call may have been made from the Sherman home at the time of the murders, perhaps by Barry or Honey summoning help. Here is what we found: At 9:30 a.m. on the Thursday — the morning after the Shermans were murdered but while their bodies had not been discovered — a neighbour a few doors away had a knock on her door from a Toronto police officer who said he was checking out a report of a 911 call on the street. The woman had not made a call. At close to the same time, the camera of a home across from the Shermans caught the fuzzy image of a man in a sedan pulling up to the Sherman home, parking on the street, and going back and forth to the Sherman front door over a period of about 30 minutes. ”
https://www.thestar.com/amp/news/ca...pect-with-odd-walk-almost-four-years-ago.html

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Has LE ever actually stated or confirmed that this man wet into the house? I know KD has reported that the man went inside, but AFAIK TPS has never stated that this person went inside the house. AFAIK this info came either from Greenspan, or from the neighbour across the street. Have I missed something?

No, Donovan first reported that the Thursday visitor spent 29 minutes inside the home, but later wrote it was unclear if he actually entered (the cctv view was obscured by that partial wall in front of the doors).

 

[dotr]

.Link courtesy of poster Wondergirl..

''The day before The Sherman's were discovered dead, an article was published in the Toronto Life Real Estate, announcing to readers that he is one of Canada's Richest People.
Courtesy of the snapshot from Wayback Machine on December 14th, 2017.
Pharma titan Barry Sherman is selling his modern North York mansion
Barry Sherman, founder and chairman of the generic drug manufacturer Apotex, is one of Canada’s richest people, with a Forbes-estimated fortune of about $3 billion. In 1985, he and his wife, Honey, bought a parcel of land in North York, at 50 Old Colony Road, near Bayview and the 401, for $390,000. The home they built on that land, a fabulously ’80s-looking six-bedroom mansion, is now on the market for $6,988,000.

Image from Google Earth

The house is a poured-concrete colossus, designed by architect Jack Winston, with 12,440 square feet of living space. It has indoor and outdoor pools, a sauna and a tennis court. There’s a grand entrance hall with a chandelier and a curved staircase. Glass block, a translucent building material popular in the ’80s and ’90s that isn’t deployed as much in newer construction, is used liberally throughout the house to introduce light into private spaces, including the opulent master bathroom. Sherman’s agent, Elise Stern, didn’t respond to requests for comment on the sale.

Sherman might be selling to move a few blocks south. A large home in Forest Hill, located on a corner lot behind a privacy screen of tall trees, sold late last year, and is now registered in Honey Sherman’s name.
https://web.archive.org/web/2017121...ry-sherman-selling-modern-north-york-mansion/

Wondergirl, Dec 25, 2017Report

 

[Window21]

Like I stated earlier, I have always thought that 911 call came from the murderer or the Shermans, and somehow the police or the tracking system messed up the house number.
The 911 call has always bothered me, but at this point I don't see as it being a huge point in solving this case.

It would be horrible if HS called 911 and no one showed up that evening to help her, then there would be a whole other issue!

Also, didn't I read somewhere that the person at the house on Thursday morning has been cleared of any wrong doing and that police are aware who this person is? I thought I read that somewhere. I could be wrong...

The other thing that has always bothered me is I can't shake that there may be mob ties in this case. I have examined how the mob operates quite a lot over the years and someone like BS that had this much money and was constantly involved in lawsuits, and often winning these lawsuits just doesn't sit well with me. I could be way off on this one as I know we have no proof of this, but I just can't get that out of my mind.

 

[SUSAN ANN]

What is the real truth about the phone that was found? At one point I read that H might have struggled with the attacker near the door and she ran towards the bathroom with phone dialing 911 and of course the attacker caught up with her. Then I read the maid told the police she picked up the phone and put it in the bathroom. There is a theory stating that she likely was killed on the first level and was dragged down the steps and that’s why her head was injured and bled as her body was hunched over for a while on the pool room floor.

 

[Errrr]

If only people would realize the mayhem they create when they try to stage a suicide to look like murder. Reminds me of Rebecca Zahau as well.

 

[SUSAN ANN]

If only people would realize the mayhem they create when they try to stage a suicide to look like murder. Reminds me of Rebecca Zahau as well.

The oxygen channel you probably know covered that story. That little boy. You can see the marks on his back like he had been thrown against the railing, seemed suspicious to me. Something bad went on there.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Small point about the old cordless phones is that some have been known to automatically dial 911 if the batteries start to die.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-04-20-me-1124-story.html?_amp=true

 

[Errrr]

Given that this appears to be a professional hit with a behind the scenes team working together with an assassin, there must be deep pockets behind it. In order to grease the wheels more, the reward should go up to get better information to come forth from some holding back so far.

Professional hit is highly debatable. Maybe okay in Mexico to waste so much time and effort to convey a message, but not in this case. There is no message. The erroneous 911 makes it look even more like a manslaughter/suicide case IMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

Professional hit is highly debatable. Maybe okay in Mexico to waste so much time and effort to convey a message, but not in this case. There is no message. The erroneous 911 makes it look even more like a manslaughter/suicide case IMO.

But if we go with M/s then we’d have to believe the emergency centre doesn’t record phone numbers of 911 callers, and a woman made the call one day after she was believed to have been murdered.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

But if we go with M/s then we’d have to believe the emergency centre doesn’t record phone numbers of 911 callers, and a woman made the call one day after she was believed to have been murdered.

Or the call was manipulated to make it appear as though Barry was calling 911 hours after killing Honey, but hung up and took his life instead.

 

[ldlager]

It bugs me because Greenspan said they didn’t know who he was, and I’m curious as to why the police didn’t tell the family. Why not tell reporters?

Had they been alive, Honey was supposed to be at a meeting at 8:30am that morning. Barry arrived late to work most mornings (around 10:00 am or later if he dropped by Alex’s home to see his grandchildren.) So I don’t think anyone would be alarmed by their absence at the time the Thursday visitor arrived at 9:11 am.

The visitor didn’t pull into the driveway, he parked on the street in front of the home—that sounds like what a police officer would do, imo. He spent an hour there, going back and forth to his car.

My guess is that there was a 911 call made that the police couldn’t definitely pinpoint. I read that they can trace an unknown cell call accurately to within 200 metres—that’s within the range of the house where the police officer visited regarding the 911 call. Maybe he visited more homes, but only one shared the information with Donovan. The 911 call may have been made with a cordless phone. (Private number.) Or spoofed to the Sherman home.

It might partly explain why they were test-calling 911 from the Sherman home:

“On Dec. 20, 2017, five days after the bodies were discovered, a Toronto detective was sent to the crime scene at the Sherman home and given a “To-Do List” by a senior detective. The order was to “conduct a 911 test call from the residence.” The detective made a test call that “lasted for 1 minute and 44 seconds” using the landline phone the Shermans had, an old Panasonic phone.

At the same time, detectives examined the Panasonic phone, which keeps the last 10 numbers dialed. What those numbers were is covered by a court seal. Using this information, police obtained a production order from Pringle to check incoming and outgoing calls from the Panasonic phone.

The Star was particularly interested in this 911 test because several years ago, at the urging of one of the Sherman children, the Star looked into a report that a 911 call may have been made from the Sherman home at the time of the murders, perhaps by Barry or Honey summoning help. Here is what we found: At 9:30 a.m. on the Thursday — the morning after the Shermans were murdered but while their bodies had not been discovered — a neighbour a few doors away had a knock on her door from a Toronto police officer who said he was checking out a report of a 911 call on the street. The woman had not made a call. At close to the same time, the camera of a home across from the Shermans caught the fuzzy image of a man in a sedan pulling up to the Sherman home, parking on the street, and going back and forth to the Sherman front door over a period of about 30 minutes. ”
Police probing Sherman murders learned of mysterious suspect with odd walk almost four years ago | The Star

Thanks Dotr. As I have speculated previously, I think IMO that this visitor was a police officer, and TPS will not admit it.

 

[SUSAN ANN]

Or the call was manipulated to make it appear as though Barry was calling 911 hours after killing Honey, but hung up and took his life instead.

But how could Barry’s body appear so neat, they said his hair wasn’t messed up, his glasses were perched on his nose like usual. Could he really have killed himself that easily when usually the will to survive is so strong? And crossing his legs? Could he do all of that when taking his own life? I’ll have to read about Robin Williams’ death.

 

[Window21]

But how could Barry’s body appear so neat, they said his hair wasn’t messed up, his glasses were perched on his nose like usual. Could he really have killed himself that easily when usually the will to survive is so strong? And crossing his legs? Could he do all of that when taking his own life? I’ll have to read about Robin Williams’ death.

That is why it is so hard to believe that the police thought M/S. If BS were to kill himself by hanging then the body twitches etc...there is no way he would be crossed legged and with his glasses so perfectly on his face. He also had his coat pulled down behind his back to restrain his arms IIRC, so why on earth would anyone think M/S? Even someone with no experience in this kind of thing would not think M/S! Even the house staff made statements that they were murdered.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

But how could Barry’s body appear so neat, they said his hair wasn’t messed up, his glasses were perched on his nose like usual. Could he really have killed himself that easily when usually the will to survive is so strong? And crossing his legs? Could he do all of that when taking his own life? I’ll have to read about Robin Williams’ death.

I meant if the killer was trying to stage it to appear Barry did that. Based on what has been reported, it’s impossible and he died between 9pm-12 midnight on Wednesday, long before the 911 call.

He was placed in that position after being killed according to Donovan, and it was not a peaceful death, imo.

 

[Satchie]

That is why it is so hard to believe that the police thought M/S. If BS were to kill himself by hanging then the body twitches etc...there is no way he would be crossed legged and with his glasses so perfectly on his face. He also had his coat pulled down behind his back to restrain his arms IIRC, so why on earth would anyone think M/S? Even someone with no experience in this kind of thing would not think M/S! Even the house staff made statements that they were murdered.

I'm a broken record, but...

In modern policing, you're not supposed to jump.to conclusions. That leads to police bias when collecting evidence, tending to pay attention only to the evidence that confirms their pre-existing theory.

Up-thread, there was a quote about how police were initially considering 3 potential scenarios (ie, they'd only ruled out accidental death). They collected all the evidence, waited for all the forensic results, including toxicology, and then drew their conclusion.

That's what they're supposed to do.

What if police who found Robin Williams said: 'hey, his hair's not mussed up, must have been murder, for sure. Arrest and charge his wife!'.

JMO