CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #17

[Rush4087]

That's true.. it's possible the painters weren't finished yet, and came back to do some more? (Although wouldn't they park in the driveway after having been there already?) Did H give the painter(s) a key to let themselves in if she and B had already left for the morning?

Maybe somebody sent by the real estate company to change out or repair the lockbox? Idk what kind of lock or key box was being used by the real estate company (or if one was being used at all), but if perhaps the box was not functioning properly, or if the man sent to replace or repair it misremembered the code, he might have had to make a few trips back and forth to the car to call the office, ask about the combo, how to open it, etc. Just a wild guess.

Maybe the S’s wanted to make sure that security was up to par at that entry point following the bizarre FaceTime showing/video done by an agent using an iPad (with a remote client who only responded during the showing by text) on December 9th. I thought that was a pretty strange showing, but I guess the prospective buyer could have been a long way away (even in another country), and only able to communicate via text. But the Sherman’s were home for that one.

Obviously grasping for straws here..

 

[dotr]

Jan 19 2022
Barry Sherman owed $1 billion and was not going to pay, police documents reveal | The Star
''The Toronto Star has won court-approved access to police investigative documents in the now four-year-old Barry and Honey Sherman murder case, and the information is being released in chronological order, not all at once. Last week, we reported that by the summer of 2021 the hope of catching the killer or killers through cellphone tracking had failed, leading to the release of the “walking man” video. In today’s instalment, the Star reveals what the children, friends and business associates of the Shermans told detectives in their interviews.

Barry Sherman faced a crushing payout — he owed $1 billion to other companies and had no intention of paying. Two of his most trusted advisers wanted him to show his favourite lieutenant the door. At home, things were better with Honey and the kids than in the past, but detectives’ notebooks quickly filled up with tales of past family turmoil and separate sleeping arrangements.

There’s an old saying in homicide investigations, “there are no secrets in a murder case,” something made abundantly clear in police documents newly unsealed by the court. The files, a collection of interview statements and police theories, also shed new light on Honey’s sister’s belief that the couple was murdered for religious reasons.''

 

[Window21]

Thank you for the new article that is out today Dotr.
Also in this article:
"The newly released documents reveal that Honey’s sister Mary Shechtman told police Honey had been attending meetings “to stop Muslims and retribution.” Shechtman recounted to a detective how the Shermans were strong supporters of Israel and “Honey was very vocal about being Jewish.” Shechtman said that six months before the murders, Honey had gone to a lecture “about stopping money from getting into Muslim fundamentalists’ hands.” In Shechtman’s statement to police, she said Honey’s belief was that “if the money were to be cut off from them they could bankrupt them and therefore the money could not be used for terror.” Shechtman told police she believed “Barry was providing funding for this.”

Barry Sherman owed $1 billion and was not going to pay, police documents reveal

 

[Errrr]

But if we go with M/s then we’d have to believe the emergency centre doesn’t record phone numbers of 911 callers, and a woman made the call one day after she was believed to have been murdered.

Why would a dead woman need to have made the call? Did they hear a woman’s voice?

 

[deugirtni]

We now know for sure that it wasn't JS's husband FM who is the one refusing to give a statement to TPS. Still no mention of AP.

Fred, in his interview, told police that on Friday he and Jonathon drove to their cottage and it was around noon that Jonathon received a call from his aunt, Mary Shechtman, with the news.

Standing in the cottage driveway after the call from his aunt, “Jonathon told Fred that his parents had been murdered and that they were found in the basement and that his aunt was very distraught,” according to the police account of Fred’s statement.

 

[WINDSOR]

I'd never heard the theory of it being a police officer but that makes perfect sense. Who else would park on the road, Amazon delivery?

If it was an officer, tracking an unknown 911 call, why wouldn't the officer check the house carefully? He was there a substantial amount of time.

I doubt he was a police officer, he was not in uniform, he was not in a marked police car. He discovers the front door unlocked when he tries it, and even though he is supposedly responding to a possible 911 call, he does no search? At minimum, I would thing he would call his supervisor for further guidance.

Secondly if one of the Shermans did call 911, it is a mute point now, in the search for the killer.

 

[juli99]

Thanks Dotr. As I have speculated previously, I think IMO that this visitor was a police officer, and TPS will not admit it.

I'd never heard the theory of it being a police officer but that makes perfect sense. Who else would park on the road, Amazon delivery?

If it was an officer, tracking an unknown 911 call, why wouldn't the officer check the house carefully? He was there a substantial amount of time.

I doubt he was a police officer, he was not in uniform, he was not in a marked police car. He discovers the front door unlocked when he tries it, and even though he is supposedly responding to a possible 911 call, he does no search? At minimum, I would thing he would call his supervisor for further guidance.

Secondly if one of the Shermans did call 911, it is a mute point now, in the search for the killer.

Would a cop need a search warrant to enter a house? You're making me think it's not a cop now, but I guess the whole thing isn't important.

Mute point makes me think of Joey's moo point from Friends.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

The Star was particularly interested in this 911 test because several years ago, at the urging of one of the Sherman children, the Star looked into a report that a 911 call may have been made from the Sherman home at the time of the murders, perhaps by Barry or Honey summoning help. Here is what we found: At 9:30 a.m. on the Thursday — the morning after the Shermans were murdered but while their bodies had not been discovered — a neighbour a few doors away had a knock on her door from a Toronto police officer who said he was checking out a report of a 911 call on the street. The woman had not made a call. At close to the same time, the camera of a home across from the Shermans caught the fuzzy image of a man in a sedan pulling up to the Sherman home, parking on the street, and going back and forth to the Sherman front door over a period of about 30 minutes. ”

Interesting, so we really are not 100% sure that a 911 call even happened. This report does not state they have confirmation from 911 dispatch that a call was received, this is that a neighbor had "someone" visit their home and said one was made.

Curious to see this "police officer" person on a camera, if they have the same walk as the NW?

RE: this 911 call

I have called 911 to report a fire, it is not instant, the call is auto answered and then you need to say fire police or ambulance, then you get connected. the 1 min 44 seconds makes sense it takes that long to get to a dispatcher. This was a test from a landline, not a blackberry or cell phone

How often do police officers go door to door 8 - 12 hours after a 911 call was placed?

Did they go to all neighbors or just ones that had cameras on the street? or just this neighbor?

Wonder if this was part of the plan to see if any neighbors saw anything the night before? They may not have called 911 but would share that they heard/saw something suspicious?

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Thank you for the new article that is out today Dotr.
Also in this article:
"The newly released documents reveal that Honey’s sister Mary Shechtman told police Honey had been attending meetings “to stop Muslims and retribution.” Shechtman recounted to a detective how the Shermans were strong supporters of Israel and “Honey was very vocal about being Jewish.” Shechtman said that six months before the murders, Honey had gone to a lecture “about stopping money from getting into Muslim fundamentalists’ hands.” In Shechtman’s statement to police, she said Honey’s belief was that “if the money were to be cut off from them they could bankrupt them and therefore the money could not be used for terror.” Shechtman told police she believed “Barry was providing funding for this.”

Barry Sherman owed $1 billion and was not going to pay, police documents reveal

IMO if this was the reason then yes kill HS, why wait so long and kill BS if he was the funder? killing both and no insider to keep the funds coming would not be a good plan.

Also in Canada, I believe if BS legally had to pay out 1 billion just because he is dead would not eliminate the obligation his estate would still be on the hook for the $$.

 

[Window21]

Also in Canada, I believe if BS legally had to pay out 1 billion just because he is dead would not eliminate the obligation his estate would still be on the hook for the $$.

Yes, you are correct. It appears they did pay according to today's article.

"Brad Krawczyk, who is married to Alexandra, worked (and still does) for Sherfam, Barry’s holding company. He told detectives “Barry seemed quiet lately, but not sad despite losing a total of about a billion dollars in lawsuits in the last three months.” Brad said Barry was “maintaining that he was not going to pay them (the pharmaceutical companies that had sued over patent issues) and that they were financially stable. Everyone was told everything was fine.” Following the death of the Shermans, Apotex settled with the companies for an undisclosed amount."

 

[Lexiintoronto]

If it was an officer, tracking an unknown 911 call, why wouldn't the officer check the house carefully? He was there a substantial amount of time.

I doubt he was a police officer, he was not in uniform, he was not in a marked police car. He discovers the front door unlocked when he tries it, and even though he is supposedly responding to a possible 911 call, he does no search? At minimum, I would thing he would call his supervisor for further guidance.

Secondly if one of the Shermans did call 911, it is a mute point now, in the search for the killer.

RBBM

I don’t know who the Thursday visitor was, but there are plainclothes officers in unmarked cars in Toronto. The front door wasn’t unlocked, the only unlocked door was the one basement door, according to the Star.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Yes, you are correct. It appears they did pay according to today's article.

"Brad Krawczyk, who is married to Alexandra, worked (and still does) for Sherfam, Barry’s holding company. He told detectives “Barry seemed quiet lately, but not sad despite losing a total of about a billion dollars in lawsuits in the last three months.” Brad said Barry was “maintaining that he was not going to pay them (the pharmaceutical companies that had sued over patent issues) and that they were financially stable. Everyone was told everything was fine.” Following the death of the Shermans, Apotex settled with the companies for an undisclosed amount."

interesting wording, Apotex settled, not Sherfam, do we take that as this would not be from "personal" money. How quickly did they settle these payouts, and who took charge to do this?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Interesting, so we really are not 100% sure that a 911 call even happened. This report does not state they have confirmation from 911 dispatch that a call was received, this is that a neighbor had "someone" visit their home and said one was made.

Curious to see this "police officer" person on a camera, if they have the same walk as the NW?

RE: this 911 call

I have called 911 to report a fire, it is not instant, the call is auto answered and then you need to say fire police or ambulance, then you get connected. the 1 min 44 seconds makes sense it takes that long to get to a dispatcher. This was a test from a landline, not a blackberry or cell phone

How often do police officers go door to door 8 - 12 hours after a 911 call was placed?

Did they go to all neighbors or just ones that had cameras on the street? or just this neighbor?

Wonder if this was part of the plan to see if any neighbors saw anything the night before? They may not have called 911 but would share that they heard/saw something suspicious?

The 911 call happened, if you believe the Toronto Star. Donovan asked the officer who responded to the call for a comment, but they were unavailable.

He also asked if the Thursday guy was an undercover officer but the police declined to answer.
Barry and Honey Sherman’s neighbours cite mysterious 911 call, visitor on day before billionaires found dead | The Star

I think the call was likely made on Thursday morning. There are ways to hide the true source of the call, or it could have been a coincidental glitch.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

The 911 call happened, if you believe the Toronto Star. Donovan asked the officer who responded to the call for a comment, but they were unavailable.

He also asked if the Thursday guy was an undercover officer but the police declined to answer.
Barry and Honey Sherman’s neighbours cite mysterious 911 call, visitor on day before billionaires found dead | The Star

I think the call was likely made on Thursday morning. There are ways to hide the true source of the call, or it could have been a coincidental glitch.

I am hung up on the neighbor's words, only asked if they made a 911 call (do not recall anyone stating the time the 911 was made - the night before or when at all) and that the "police officer" questioned if she was sure it did not come from their home? Would police canvas door to door in this area for a pocket dial. Has this family ever had visits from police for this same incident?

 

[ldlager]

interesting wording, Apotex settled, not Sherfam, do we take that as this would not be from "personal" money. How quickly did they settle these payouts, and who took charge to do this?

The obligation was apotex’s, not barrys or sherfams.

 

[Tobiano8th]

wow... quite the Toronto Star article.. although I don't think any of the info (that I saw/remember) has any real bearing on the case.

I am curious. the headline and/or spoiler says BS owed $1B..... but I think it was Apotex. ENORMOUS DIFFERENCE.... I understand Apotex is BS' baby etc. etc. but it's still a big difference.

that is a really big number...... Apotex and/or BS don't have that lying around, nor could either (IMO) have access to that $$$$$ in a timely manner. it might require sale of the company.....

big tobacco lost some massive lawsuits for tens of billions..... did they ever pay? seemed like they keep the appeals going for years... I don't see how that can be as on personal level, it seems like appeals are reasonably timely and finally some court makes a decision and the next level of court won't hear the case. (or the level of court that made the decision is the country's Supreme Court)

the reason I bring up big tobacco is "could Apotex not have similarly delayed the payment of $1B indefinitely?" where was the $$$$ owed? Canada, USA or other?s

on religious killings, 1) I presume muslims would leave their mark and/or publicize the killing (even if they meant to keep it very quiet); 2) how would they get in the house?, 3) who paid for this, assuming it's a professional job?; 4) there is zero chance this killing would slow down BS and HS work in this manner. Canada is a small fish. I presume there are big funders in USA and UK (and other countries). even the Canadian work would probably continue.

I can't remember from the article but who wanted Jack Kay gone? I presume it wasn't JS cited in this article.

KD's book was great.. but I thought it was missing (understandably) much of the personal interaction of the S family. the info released fills in some gaps.

nothing to do with the article but what was BS relationship with Teva? i am getting confused on so much stuff.... is the $1B lawsuit loss the same as Desi spying on (I think) Teva? or is patent-related?... I am wondering about BS relationship with Teva before all that. Teva bought Apotex' bitter Canadian rival Novopharm many years ago....... to me, if he had good relations with Teva, they would be natural buyer for Apotex. luckily for S family, private equity is enormous right now. and some aggressive PE/HF outfit I'm sure would love to get involved in generic drugs. lots of room for litigation and aggressive tactics..

ok, now I am officially rambling.

 

[Tobiano8th]

yikes,

did I not read closely enough?

was the lawsuit money "owing"? i.e. no more legal challenges and a specific "due date"?

that is a big big deal.

 

[ldlager]

IMO if this was the reason then yes kill HS, why wait so long and kill BS if he was the funder? killing both and no insider to keep the funds coming would not be a good plan

Also in Canada, I believe if BS legally had to pay out 1 billion just because he is dead would not eliminate the obligation his estate would still be on the hook for the $$.

The obligation was not Barry’s petsonally, it was apotex’s.

 

[ldlager]

wow... quite the Toronto Star article.. although I don't think any of the info (that I saw/remember) has any real bearing on the case.

I am curious. the headline and/or spoiler says BS owed $1B..... but I think it was Apotex. ENORMOUS DIFFERENCE.... I understand Apotex is BS' baby etc. etc. but it's still a big difference.

that is a really big number...... Apotex and/or BS don't have that lying around, nor could either (IMO) have access to that $$$$$ in a timely manner. it might require sale of the company.....

big tobacco lost some massive lawsuits for tens of billions..... did they ever pay? seemed like they keep the appeals going for years... I don't see how that can be as on personal level, it seems like appeals are reasonably timely and finally some court makes a decision and the next level of court won't hear the case. (or the level of court that made the decision is the country's Supreme Court)

the reason I bring up big tobacco is "could Apotex not have similarly delayed the payment of $1B indefinitely?" where was the $$$$ owed? Canada, USA or other?s

on religious killings, 1) I presume muslims would leave their mark and/or publicize the killing (even if they meant to keep it very quiet); 2) how would they get in the house?, 3) who paid for this, assuming it's a professional job?; 4) there is zero chance this killing would slow down BS and HS work in this manner. Canada is a small fish. I presume there are big funders in USA and UK (and other countries). even the Canadian work would probably continue.

I can't remember from the article but who wanted Jack Kay gone? I presume it wasn't JS cited in this article.

KD's book was great.. but I thought it was missing (understandably) much of the personal interaction of the S family. the info released fills in some gaps.

nothing to do with the article but what was BS relationship with Teva? i am getting confused on so much stuff.... is the $1B lawsuit loss the same as Desi spying on (I think) Teva? or is patent-related?... I am wondering about BS relationship with Teva before all that. Teva bought Apotex' bitter Canadian rival Novopharm many years ago....... to me, if he had good relations with Teva, they would be natural buyer for Apotex. luckily for S family, private equity is enormous right now. and some aggressive PE/HF outfit I'm sure would love to get involved in generic drugs. lots of room for litigation and aggressive tactics..

ok, now I am officially rambling.

The 1 billion does not relate to the Desai /Teva matter. It was related to the apotex generic business

 

[Tobiano8th]

Ldlager, thank you

I was mistaken.... BS associates wanted Desi gone, NOT JK

Desi painting himself as victim seems Elizabeth Holmes-esque

Why did JS fire JK? Suspicious (pretend suspicious?) Of him in parents'?... He couldn't have been thinking straight. Bad move for Apotex and JS