If it was snowing and/or during winter, did BS prefer to park his car in the garage? It appears that the killer probably had a good prior knowledge of the inside of the house beyond that from just looking at a plan map.
CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #19
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Does that mean that
Does this mean that Alexa can hear everything that people are talking about?
Police Hope Amazon Alexa and Surveillance Videos Can Lead to an Arrest in the Killings of Medical Researchers
A search warrant filed in the case indicates cops think the killer was inside the apartment of Camila Behrensen and Pablo Guzmán Palma for several hourspeople.com
In addition, police are turning to the cloud for help.
Citing a search warrant filed in a Kansas City court, KSHB-TV reports that detectives are asking Amazon for access to its cloud storage so that they can obtained data from the apartment's Alexa device.
According to KSHB, police believe the killer may have been inside the victims' apartment for several hours and hope Alexa managed to capture some of the conversations that may have unfolded during that time.
-.-.-
Wouldn't it be nice, if they had had an Alexa in
As handy as it seems to have an underground garage, if one has to then climb a full set of stairs to access the main floor, and on top, one is not that into exercise or keeping fit, .... I would think he'd prefer to just park at the front door, like we are told he preferred to do. He had an old car he was driving into the ground (ie not selling up after two years or whatever), so would he really care if his vehicle got snow or rain on it? imo, I doubt it. I wonder if he had a remote starter on his vehicle?
I know I have said it before.. but in my conspiracy theory mind, I feel like that TV show CBC did with the 'lookalike' B&H and the similar vehicles, were doing more than we will know (at least until there is ever a trial). I'm not sure what exactly, .... to see what can be seen from the neighbouring homes? To see what would be recorded from neighbouring security cams? To check which cellphone tower a phone will ping off of at various areas of driving home from Apo? I just can't see CBC doing it just for viewer pleasure, at the time when cops were still swarming the place and ... I would guess it may have been kind of in the way, with cams and extra people and curious bystanders etc. Why not wait til LE is finished climbing on the roof and etc? Were they trying to see if a cam would catch a person hiding in the back seat? Or how well a neighbouring cam could actually tell if it was B who was driving his car home that night? jmo.
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imo, speculation, fwiw..
Surely there are easier places to put the bodies, it is hard to imagine the killer choosing to go down all those narrow hallways with two fairly heavy people, unless they were each marched to the final horror by the pool.
Could there be other subconscious/moral/religious reasons for placing them in the 'most remote' room in the house, if concealment or delay of discovery is the goal, why not put the bodies into the pool and pull the pool cover over them, or leave them in the garage?
If there was staging and fingerprints wiped away, the murder ligatures (presumably) removed from the house, and possibly ''tidying'' of the victims, ie. adjusting BS' glasses and HS' slip-on shoes... But why leave drag marks and blood on the wall?
How confident they must have been to know where to go in that basement labyrinth and where and what button to push to open the door to the pool?
www.thestar.com
By Kevin DonovanChief Investigative Reporter
Thu., June 16, 2022 rbbm,
'' The Sherman bodies are located in a corner of the swimming pool room (the far right corner of the house if you are looking from the street).''
''The location of the bodies is the most remote part of the Sherman house, and the pool was rarely used — the water was green, the pool cover was on, and the room had not been cleaned for three weeks. My speculation is that this area was chosen so that it would be a considerable amount of time before they were discovered.''
''There is one door into the swimming pool room. It is at the other end of the room from where the bodies were located. To get into that room you have to walk down a long hallway from the front of the house, and unlock the glass door by pressing a red button (placed there for child safety reasons as part of the municipal building code) that is high on a corridor wall.''
'' On the pool railing near where Honey’s belt is tied there is a small smear of blood. There is also a smear of blood on the breast of a blue vest she is wearing. The information I have seen does not say whose blood it is.''
'' There is a mark on one cheek, but it is minor. There is blood on her face, but it appears to have come from her nose as a result of the strangulation that killed her''
''Chiasson also took note of a thin line underneath where the belts were wrapped around the Shermans’ necks, indicating to him that they were killed with a thin ligature — the belts were merely used to hold the bodies up afterward. This indicates the Shermans were killed prior to the belts being attached to their necks. No thin ligatures were found at the crime scene.''
Surely there are easier places to put the bodies, it is hard to imagine the killer choosing to go down all those narrow hallways with two fairly heavy people, unless they were each marched to the final horror by the pool.
Could there be other subconscious/moral/religious reasons for placing them in the 'most remote' room in the house, if concealment or delay of discovery is the goal, why not put the bodies into the pool and pull the pool cover over them, or leave them in the garage?
If there was staging and fingerprints wiped away, the murder ligatures (presumably) removed from the house, and possibly ''tidying'' of the victims, ie. adjusting BS' glasses and HS' slip-on shoes... But why leave drag marks and blood on the wall?
How confident they must have been to know where to go in that basement labyrinth and where and what button to push to open the door to the pool?
The Star saw the Sherman crime-scene and autopsy photos. How could a pathologist and police call it a murder-suicide?
Photos, notes raise new questions about how investigators made their mistaken determination in the Barry and Honey Sherman case.
Thu., June 16, 2022 rbbm,
'' The Sherman bodies are located in a corner of the swimming pool room (the far right corner of the house if you are looking from the street).''
''The location of the bodies is the most remote part of the Sherman house, and the pool was rarely used — the water was green, the pool cover was on, and the room had not been cleaned for three weeks. My speculation is that this area was chosen so that it would be a considerable amount of time before they were discovered.''
''There is one door into the swimming pool room. It is at the other end of the room from where the bodies were located. To get into that room you have to walk down a long hallway from the front of the house, and unlock the glass door by pressing a red button (placed there for child safety reasons as part of the municipal building code) that is high on a corridor wall.''
'' On the pool railing near where Honey’s belt is tied there is a small smear of blood. There is also a smear of blood on the breast of a blue vest she is wearing. The information I have seen does not say whose blood it is.''
'' There is a mark on one cheek, but it is minor. There is blood on her face, but it appears to have come from her nose as a result of the strangulation that killed her''
''Chiasson also took note of a thin line underneath where the belts were wrapped around the Shermans’ necks, indicating to him that they were killed with a thin ligature — the belts were merely used to hold the bodies up afterward. This indicates the Shermans were killed prior to the belts being attached to their necks. No thin ligatures were found at the crime scene.''
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There's just no way they were going to be showing that house to prospective purchasers with a dirty, green, algae-filled pool. I wonder who it was that told KD that bit of info?? imo.....
By Kevin DonovanChief Investigative ReporterThe Star saw the Sherman crime-scene and autopsy photos. How could a pathologist and police call it a murder-suicide?
Photos, notes raise new questions about how investigators made their mistaken determination in the Barry and Honey Sherman case.
Thu., June 16, 2022 rbbm,
....
''The location of the bodies is the most remote part of the Sherman house, and the pool was rarely used — the water was green, the pool cover was on, and the room had not been cleaned for three weeks. My speculation is that this area was chosen so that it would be a considerable amount of time before they were discovered.''
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My exact thoughts. The room had remained uncleaned for three weeks while agents were trying to sell the house? Not feasible.
You would think the pool cover would be rolled back so the buyers would get a good look at the pool. Just like you, I always thought that bit of info was strange. The house should have been immaculate with it being for sale and any good real estate agent would make sure that pool was crystal clear.
I'm sure it *was* crystal clear, and I'm sure their agent would've made sure, if Honey could even have been imagined to NOT have made sure herself! Even with the solar blanket on, one can still tell if the pool isn't clean, imo, and they couldn't count on potential purchasers not pulling the cover back to see inside. I remember the youngest child's fiance was quoted one time as saying the pool was green when he saw it. But who knows from when that was? They were apparently/reportedly rejecting lower offers, so one would expect they'd have their home in clean condition. The couple was apparently/reportedly getting work done on the home (painters left the window open), so it's not like they wouldn't have spent the money to make their house as nice as it could be without actually renovating. And of course, it's not like they couldn't afford to have it cleaned, and they already had a cleaning person coming a couple times per week. I'll never believe that it was during the time of the home being for sale that the pool was green.
He tells police, in his interview two weeks after the murders, that he was aware the bodies were found near the swimming pool, but that to his knowledge Barry and Honey never went down there and that the pool was “green.”
People had reason to ‘hurt’ Barry and Honey Sherman, son tells Toronto police in early days of the investigation
Statement is part of a series of police interviews released by Ontario Court of Justice as part of the Star’s ongoing attempt to bring scrutiny to the now three-year-old murder probe.
This article can also be found on pressreader.com by searching: people had reason to hurt barry sherman (date Dec 11, 2020)
Very good points. This is indeed a question I asked myself: why not in the pool and put the pool cover back on top? The bodies would have been well concealed.
It indicates to me that the killer’s purpose was to expose the bodies hung side by side like the statues of the recreation room .
This staging at this location was carefully prepared in the killer’s head.
He seems to have been very confident and determined in all the actions surrounding the death of these two elderly people . Yes, he had his personal ("subconscious/moral/religious reasons" ) for conceiving such a double murder .
Go to all this trouble for this final result: as for an exhibition or a theatrical scene, the bodies are hung :in the killers mind, this may have represented, symbolically, that they'd been executed, in some sort of act of justice ( when we know they were strangled before they were hanged...)
There’s also this other sculpture by the stairs : Casesensitive said :" I believe dotr also mentioned the other weird sculpture in the same area, which she described as "the sheep being led to slaughter". Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #13
I tried to find other similar cases in this kind of staging: only one ( a very old cold case in France) who presents a child with a rope around his neck when we know that the rope played no role in his death: he had been asphyxiated ( perhaps by drowning ). There are certainly other cases, but I haven’t found any yet.
All these elements suggest a planned execution in a very particular style . For my part, and this is pure speculation, the killer could be a family member , rather young , very confident in himself , or at least believing that the victims owed him something.
Speculations only. JMO
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Sometimes just the presence of someone's parked car outside of one's house indicates their presence there.imo, speculation, fwiw..
Surely there are easier places to put the bodies, it is hard to imagine the killer choosing to go down all those narrow hallways with two fairly heavy people, unless they were each marched to the final horror by the pool.
Could there be other subconscious/moral/religious reasons for placing them in the 'most remote' room in the house, if concealment or delay of discovery is the goal, why not put the bodies into the pool and pull the pool cover over them, or leave them in the garage?
If there was staging and fingerprints wiped away, the murder ligatures (presumably) removed from the house, and possibly ''tidying'' of the victims, ie. adjusting BS' glasses and HS' slip-on shoes... But why leave drag marks and blood on the wall?
How confident they must have been to know where to go in that basement labyrinth and where and what button to push to open the door to the pool?
By Kevin DonovanChief Investigative ReporterThe Star saw the Sherman crime-scene and autopsy photos. How could a pathologist and police call it a murder-suicide?
Photos, notes raise new questions about how investigators made their mistaken determination in the Barry and Honey Sherman case.
Thu., June 16, 2022 rbbm,
'' The Sherman bodies are located in a corner of the swimming pool room (the far right corner of the house if you are looking from the street).''
''The location of the bodies is the most remote part of the Sherman house, and the pool was rarely used — the water was green, the pool cover was on, and the room had not been cleaned for three weeks. My speculation is that this area was chosen so that it would be a considerable amount of time before they were discovered.''
''There is one door into the swimming pool room. It is at the other end of the room from where the bodies were located. To get into that room you have to walk down a long hallway from the front of the house, and unlock the glass door by pressing a red button (placed there for child safety reasons as part of the municipal building code) that is high on a corridor wall.''
'' On the pool railing near where Honey’s belt is tied there is a small smear of blood. There is also a smear of blood on the breast of a blue vest she is wearing. The information I have seen does not say whose blood it is.''
'' There is a mark on one cheek, but it is minor. There is blood on her face, but it appears to have come from her nose as a result of the strangulation that killed her''
''Chiasson also took note of a thin line underneath where the belts were wrapped around the Shermans’ necks, indicating to him that they were killed with a thin ligature — the belts were merely used to hold the bodies up afterward. This indicates the Shermans were killed prior to the belts being attached to their necks. No thin ligatures were found at the crime scene.''
HS's car was parked outside since the evening of Wednesday, December 13, 2017. Wouldn't this have aroused suspicions that she was somewhere in the house at home to anyone who came by or saw it afterward? Thus, the pool may have more significance and symbolism to the killer than just a remote place to hide the dead bodies.
The pool may have looked like it was shown in the real estate picture which is the only picture that we have of the pool. Its condition looks presentable and it was probably taken at the time by the real estate photographer for the house listing just before they were murdered. What is interesting about the picture is that it shows the railing on which they were found hung on in the front of the picture.I'm sure it *was* crystal clear, and I'm sure their agent would've made sure, if Honey could even have been imagined to NOT have made sure herself! Even with the solar blanket on, one can still tell if the pool isn't clean, imo, and they couldn't count on potential purchasers not pulling the cover back to see inside. I remember the youngest child's fiance was quoted one time as saying the pool was green when he saw it. But who knows from when that was? They were apparently/reportedly rejecting lower offers, so one would expect they'd have their home in clean condition. The couple was apparently/reportedly getting work done on the home (painters left the window open), so it's not like they wouldn't have spent the money to make their house as nice as it could be without actually renovating. And of course, it's not like they couldn't afford to have it cleaned, and they already had a cleaning person coming a couple times per week. I'll never believe that it was during the time of the home being for sale that the pool was green.
He tells police, in his interview two weeks after the murders, that he was aware the bodies were found near the swimming pool, but that to his knowledge Barry and Honey never went down there and that the pool was “green.”
People had reason to ‘hurt’ Barry and Honey Sherman, son tells Toronto police in early days of the investigation
Statement is part of a series of police interviews released by Ontario Court of Justice as part of the Star’s ongoing attempt to bring scrutiny to the now three-year-old murder probe.www.thestar.com
This article can also be found on pressreader.com by searching: people had reason to hurt barry sherman (date Dec 11, 2020)
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Didn't the sheep have a leather type of belt around its neck?
Or maybe someone who knew them very closely and for a very long time and who knew much about them and somehow may have developed a deep resentment of them over time where everything they did and said started to bug them more and more. They may have had a way of offending them without realizing it themselves. "Familiarity breeds contempt."
Thus, it would appear that the killer staged things based on the two different basement artwork sculptures. Thus, they would have had to have had some knowledge of these works from having visited the house and basement before.
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Medical personnel, LE and those into BDSM? speculation, imo.
Were any drugs used to subdue them? If any were used, it may have to be something medical/pharmaceutical (Apotex?). However, it appears that they did it more by strongly overpowering their victims and later moving their heavy dead bodies.
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