Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #2

[Inthedetails]

Was the meeting with the architect for sure at an office, and not on-site for some reason? Maybe if they were walking around the demo site, they'd be wearing boots.

Good point!

 

[Tortoise]

The frankmag claims they were wearing "winter coats", which is quite different from the jackets quoted in the MSM article. I think frankmag, a satire magazine, is embellishing.

Do you also think they are embellishing about the visit to the architect?

 

[SeesSeas]

Was laughing at the idea that they left their door unlocked. Ludicrous ...

https://www.reuters.com/article/can...emorial-after-mysterious-deaths-idUSL1N1OK2G2

TORONTO, Dec 21 (Reuters)
[...]
Barry Sherman, founder of generic pharmaceuticals company Apotex Inc, and his wife, Honey, were found by a real estate agent on Friday morning, hanging by belts around their necks from a railing beside a swimming pool in their home, a friend close to the family told Reuters.
[...]
There were no signs of forced entry to the Shermans’ home, according to police.
The friend was adamant that Barry Sherman could not have killed his wife.
“The side door of their house was always open,” said the person who asked not to be named. “Anyone could just walk in.”
[...]
^^^BBM

 

[Cdndm]

Thank you very much for posting the link and the gentlemans' name. This is the same man who earlier had stated that the side door was always left unlocked. I believe he either lives next door or is a neighbour.

http://www.cbc.ca/listen/shows/as-it-happens/segment/15248554 for the original radio interview. Well worth the listen.
He is Murray Rubin, 87 years old. Not a current closely located neighbour as can be determined with a simple Google search to view his blog.

 

[Snoop Sister]

I've read several recent comments that the Sherman house had no security system. But on Monday, 18 December, I watched Toronto's CBC News at 6. A reporter on scene at 50 Old Colony Road said that when he was off-camera he had spoken with an ADT security tech who had just arrived. The reporter asked the tech what he was doing there. The tech replied that he was there to assist TPS accessing data on the security system. The reporter repeated this conversation live on camera.

I posted about this last Tuesday (I think it was) and another member also posted something similar a day later. Sorry, I don't know how to search previous posts.

I have said repeatedly on here that they must have some type of security system. And, all new systems have a recording of the history, which one can search. Example back door open at such a such time, or kitchen motion detector at such time. States the date as well.

 

[Inthedetails]

https://www.reuters.com/article/can...emorial-after-mysterious-deaths-idUSL1N1OK2G2

TORONTO, Dec 21 (Reuters)
[...]
Barry Sherman, founder of generic pharmaceuticals company Apotex Inc, and his wife, Honey, were found by a real estate agent on Friday morning, hanging by belts around their necks from a railing beside a swimming pool in their home, a friend close to the family told Reuters.
[...]
There were no signs of forced entry to the Shermans’ home, according to police.
The friend was adamant that Barry Sherman could not have killed his wife.
“The side door of their house was always open,” said the person who asked not to be named. “Anyone could just walk in.”
[...]
^^^BBM

Thank you for finding that.

 

[LadyL]

seems like an exaggeration IMO

Did you hear the friend speaking at the memorial about the Sherman's recent visit? She explained that BS stood there holding his luggage under one arm, HS's luggage under the other arm while holding 12 stacked boxes of doughnuts in his hands. She said she couldn't even see his face and that he stood there that way all the time she and HS discussed where the Sherman's would be staying. I have a bad back too but some days are better than others and sometimes I'm able to do a lot more than most who know me think I can do.

 

[gregjrichards]

https://www.reuters.com/article/can...emorial-after-mysterious-deaths-idUSL1N1OK2G2

TORONTO, Dec 21 (Reuters)
[...]
Barry Sherman, founder of generic pharmaceuticals company Apotex Inc, and his wife, Honey, were found by a real estate agent on Friday morning, hanging by belts around their necks from a railing beside a swimming pool in their home, a friend close to the family told Reuters.
[...]
There were no signs of forced entry to the Shermans’ home, according to police.
The friend was adamant that Barry Sherman could not have killed his wife.
“The side door of their house was always open,” said the person who asked not to be named. “Anyone could just walk in.”
[...]
^^^BBM

Seriously! What the heck were they thinking it’s a miracle they were not kidnapped and held to ransom or robbed. People with this kind of money need 24HR armed guards and top notch security. The billionaire Ecclestone family are a good example two strong guys with guns at all times.

 

[otto]

Do you also think they are embellishing about the visit to the architect?

We know from another MSM article that a jacket was rolled down the sleeves. The embellishment seems to be the assumption that "jacket" means "winter coat" and by extension, they must have been wearing "boots".

I can't find any source other than the frankmag claiming that the couple visited their architect the last night they were seen alive. Was that mentioned at the memorial service?

 

[Tortoise]

I was just looking at the weather records for that week.

https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/canada/toronto/historic

Wednesday 13th - 6pm to midnight - light snow
Thursday 14th - midnight to 6am - light snow

What a shame no one noticed they were missing on that Thursday, there could have been footprints.

I'm actually amazed if there was someone working at the house that day that they didn't think it odd to see the cars outside. Maybe there was no one there that day.

 

[Snoop Sister]

Forensics will have a nice job going through the sewer contents. Apparently, Weller spent hours going through sewers in the Sherman’s neighbourhood.

Using a hydro-excavator — a high powered truck that uses water to remove the sewer’s contents without causing damage — and a magnet attached, Det. Richard Weller of the forensics unit explored the sewers of Old Colony Rd.

He pulled his Toronto police toque over his head as the snow fell Saturday morning. Weller, who worked from 6 a.m. to 10 p.m. Friday night on the investigation, marked observations in a notebook, and pulled up a pile of damp leaves at one point. It’ll be his job later to sort through whatever is found.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...sherman-deaths-checking-sewers-for-clues.html

 

[Tortoise]

We know from another MSM article that a jacket was rolled down the sleeves. The embellishment seems to be the assumption that "jacket" means "winter coat" and by extension, they must have been wearing "boots".

I can't find any source other than the frankmag claiming that the couple visited their architect the last night they were seen alive. Was that mentioned at the memorial service?

First time I've heard it mentioned.

 

[jilly]

My take on the police statement... "Not looking for any outstanding suspects"... does not necessarily mean that there is not any suspect. It could have a quite different meaning. It could mean, they have already located their suspect, and have "eyes" on the person, or that person might already be in custody on another charge, LE waiting for the evidence to land that supports a murder charge.

In that scenario, LE would not be looking for any outstanding suspects.

Agree, A very strange statement which I have never heard before!

 

[RAISINISBACK]

IF Honey was killed by Barry elsewhere and moved to the pool railings area already dead, I think it would be difficult for him to even get her into a seated position, let alone to remain in a seated position and lean her forwards and hold steady the belt loop with one hand so that it goes under her chin, being that she would be an uncooperative dead weight.

The moving part could be achieved by dragging but it's the raising of her upper body from a lying position to seated and then the positioning that raises my incredulity with a 75 year old noted to be lethargic and Honey not being a slight or petite lady.

FWIW my doubts aren't so much about whether husbands kill their wives before committing suicide in the most unexpected of cases, it's that it's an awful lot of trouble to go to to stage it as that manner of suicide, given that her death was obviously premeditated. Honey died of ligature neck compression, not by hands. Why would she have been taken surprise like that, if she was dressed in a jacket, so not asleep. I still think it had something to do with arriving home in her car. Plus there must have been evidence she died elsewhere IF the early leaks were true, so he didn't even bother to clear up that scene of death.

I am wondering more if Honey didn't die elsewhere (not substantiated by 'sources' I know) so much as having been injured or incapacitated elsewhere, meaning that she was unconscious and then died by neck compression by the belt. That still doesn't explain how he could have managed that maneuvering or why he would do it. He was known for his intelligence and would have known his suicide set up would be easily discovered by investigators.

It seems this person, whether it was Barry or a third person, mucked up the double suicide staging. If it was Barry that makes no sense because he had time to clean up and because it would have mattered to him. I tend to think currently that if everything else was achieved without a mistake, no traces, this was someone who was covered head to toe including gloves and a mask, not leaving a hair, a fingerprint or touch DNA at the scene. If that is the case, imagine Honey did somehow leave evidence she was attacked somewhere else, be that blood, urine or feces. This hit man isn't going to touch it. That would leave a trail of trace evidence on everything they came into contact with as they made their get away. He could drag Honey with hands under her armpits without stepping in anything.

How to explain Barry's apparent suicide? He is forced to comply, can't see a way out, perhaps thinks even that he is saving Honey by complying, if he knows she has only been injured and there is a chance she won't also be killed.

BBM

I am wondering if that might be the reason he chose to pool area with it's railing because it was easier. I think he killed her somewhere in that basement area because if it had occurred upstairs he would probably just have used the stair banister to hang her and himself from.

I don't know how he did it but I know how I would. If she was killed somewhere in the basement area ( I am thinking either in the game room or garage) I would then roll the body onto a throw rug or bed cover, drag it to the pool area, and while the body was lying flat I would position it so that the lower legs were hanging over the edge of the pool. Then loop the belt around the railing, and buckle it. I would then pull the body upright by the head and insert it into the belt. It would then be a matter of simply pushing forward on the back area of the body.

I wonder if he had scratches on his face or arms or if she has dna under her nails. I cannot image she just stood there and let him strangle her to death. even if she was lying down she would have still fought back. No one just quietly let's someone else kill them especially if it is as personal as a strangling. Could scratches on his face or arms or other defensive wounds made by her be the reason LE stated murder suicide right away?


JMO

 

[jilly]

Hey Otto! Good to see you again!!

 

[deugirtni]

LE is looking in nearby sewers for any possible evidence.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...sherman-deaths-checking-sewers-for-clues.html

What kind of evidence might they even be hoping to find? If the COD is ligature strangling, which ligature was on scene...

 

[TTF14]

I wonder if he had scratches on his face or arms or if she has dna under her nails. I cannot image she just stood there and let him strangle her to death. even if she was lying down she would have still fought back. No one just quietly let's someone else kill them especially if it is as personal as a strangling. Could scratches on his face or arms or other defensive wounds made by her be the reason LE stated murder suicide right away?


JMO

RSBM.

This is what I've been assuming, but since LE has not said, it's all speculation.

 

[TTF14]

What kind of evidence might they even be hoping to find? If the COD is ligature strangling, which ligature was on scene...

From my extensive viewing of crime dramas, the only thing I've ever really seen flushed down toilets is drugs. No clue how that could relate to this case, though, other than the obvious fact that Mr. Sherman was in the pharmaceutical business.

 

[deugirtni]

If someone had been waiting inside the home for their return, and they chose the basement location, I guess it would be easy enough to make some kind of noise to prompt their interest to see what the noise was downstairs, thereby luring them down there..

I am not really understanding the layout of the home and the garage and the parking and the basement, but if an intruder were to have entered the indoor parking, would that person have been able to exit, considering where the Lexus was parked?

 

[LadyL]

(bbm)

interesting theory
I hadnèt thought of that possibility

Or they were stopped in the driveway and forced to open the garage door.

If be curious to know if they normally parked in the garage in the winter. The Google pic I'm posting is in nice weather, you can understand why they wouldn't want to go up 2 flights of stairs upon arriving home at night no matter what time of year.

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