Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #2

[RAISINISBACK]

BBM

If this is a murder/manslaughter-suicide, I believe he knew his kids would NEVER accept that determination, but would always believe they were both murdered, no matter what. So, at the very least, he would preserve his reputation with his kids, by staging Honey as a suicide and taking his own life.

I’m still perched on the fence, but the scenario you (and I) have described still makes the most sense to me...much more sense than two murders.

BBM

I agree. I think his entire motivation to take her down there and hang her in exactly the same way he killed himself was to preserve his image in his kids minds. He couldn't stand them thinking he could do that to their mother.

For the record, I think they got into a horrible argument and he strangled her in a rage before he really realized what he was doing. So he did everything he could to cover up what he probably did not mean to do so his kids wouldn't condemn him after his death.

I have a question for those of you who are medical personnel on here. Would her having had throat cancer in prior years have made it easier to strangle her? In other words would there have been scar tissue from surgeries ect that partially blocked her esophagus or upper bronchial tubes or weaken the muscles in her neck so that less pressure was required to actually strange her?

JMO

 

[pamelado2]

Given the evidence they discovered at the scene they determined right away it was murder suicide, so I would say the evidence at the scene was pretty overwhelmingly in favor of that.



JMO

RSBM

Actually, they didn't. LE made no statement to that effect. The statement they actually did make said the deaths were suspicious and they were investigating every angle.

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[tarabull]

Apologizing as this has very likely already been posted however, interesting (& some ultra :crazy: ) comments (maybe skip those lol) accumulating below the heavy.com link...FWIW (re: LLW)

http://heavy.com/news/2017/12/honey-sherman-dead-death-barry-wife-murder/

 

[Jennifer17]

RSBM

Actually, they didn't. LE made no statement to that effect. The statement they actually did make said the deaths were suspicious and they were investigating every angle.

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LE did not make a statement about jackets either, but everyone seems to believe that snippet.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

That is common all over the world, with or without the suicide of the spouse. Women are many times more likely to be killed by an intimate or formerly intimate partner than a stranger. Not so much with men.

I agree. And many more times than I want to think about, not only do they kill their spouse but kill all their children too, before killing themselves.

 

[Lilibet]

I think some folks here need to take a moment, a breather, and re-evaluate. I cannot tell you how many times I read some form of "I know this was a murder-suicide because the police made a statement saying so" over the last few pages. The police made no such statement. It sounds like it was a preliminary theory when TPS arrived at the crime scene, and someone in the know, maybe even someone who was there, took that and spoke to a reporter. Anonymously.

I believe it's possible that when arriving at the crime scene, someone could have said "this looks like a murder-suicide". That's a natural reaction, I suppose. But TPS, in no way, shape or form, have confirmed that to the media. I also think it's unfair to say that the children are flat out rejecting the murder-suicide theory, and that TPS are appeasing them because they have money. They simply asked LE to do a thorough investigation, and refrain from leaking information that hasn't been substantiated, per their statement. That seems to be what LE are now doing.

We know very, very little in all honesty. There are so many plausible scenarios where this could have been a murder-suicide and this could have been a double-homicide. I think the only responsible place to be at this point in time is on the fence, and that's where I remain seated. Come join me, I'll share my hot cocoa. :fence:

BBM

Yup. We honestly don’t know enough to have strong opinions, and I’m kind of surprised that the debate is so intense. Although I can explain how murder-suicide could have happened to those who think it’s impossible, I keep my mind open to the possibility of a double murder, just as LE is doing.

There’s plenty of room on the fence, folks. I suspect that we may need to spike the cocoa with something stronger before this is over!

 

[JDG]

Ditto from dotr!

Me three!!

 

[JayFriend]

Sorry if this has already been posted, but here's a link to a Toronto Star article quoting David Perry, a 28-year veteran of Toronto police’s homicide and sexual assault squads now working as a private investigator.

https://www.thestar.com/amp/news/gt...ionaire-couple.html?__twitter_impression=true

 

[liz b.]

Yes, I'm on that fence with you.
Although, my feet are dangling on the Murder-Murder side.
:fence:

Me too.But my feet are on the homicide side now. Hard to imagine Barry committing a premeditated murder of his wife. Premeditated because he would have had to pause, locate a belt, then strangle his wife. The pause might have been mere minutes, but those minutes could have made him stop and reconsider what he was about to do. jmo
But, I do wonder why the new house was only in Honey's name ?

 

[DarkSkink]

Searching the roof and the drain sewer seems somehow connected. The eave-troughing leads into the drain sewer? What could possibly land on the roof to then be washed into the drain? Also, with Honey killed first - how long would she have been dead before Barry for this to become obvious? How long were both dead before they were found? The house staff don't detect anything unusual during this time?

"A source with knowledge of the investigation says that the move was done 'out of an abundance of caution'"

It sounds like LE is making sure the family can't accuse them of not being thorough, because the family won't like the results of the investigation. (Likely their initial assessment - murder/suicide)

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/toronto/sherman-investigation-update-1.4464062

 

[tarabull]

Sorry if this has already been posted, but here's a link to a Toronto Star article quoting David Perry, a 28-year veteran of Toronto police’s homicide and sexual assault squads now working as a private investigator.

https://www.thestar.com/amp/news/gt...ionaire-couple.html?__twitter_impression=true

Snipped...

...In one of Apotex’s most high-profile battles, the company went head to head with Dr. Nancy Olivieri, a blood disease specialist at SickKids who was researching the drug deferiprone as an alternative treatment for thalassemia, a disorder that can lead to unsafe buildups of iron.

Olivieri and Dr. Gideon Koren, the discredited doctor at the centre of the Motherisk scandal, were running a clinical trial for Apotex.

Jumping off that ^^^ bit...

Snipped...

...In late 1999, Dr. Gideon Koren was identified as the author of “poison pen letters” sent to SickKids doctors and the media during a heated dispute with a whistleblower colleague, Dr. Nancy Olivieri. For months, Koren had denied writing the anonymous letters that disparaged Olivieri and her four supporters as “a group of pigs,” among other insults. He confessed only after DNA testing provided irrefutable proof.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...d-by-doctor-who-wrote-poison-pen-letters.html

:thinking:

 

[Jennifer17]

Sorry if this has already been posted, but here's a link to a Toronto Star article quoting David Perry, a 28-year veteran of Toronto police’s homicide and sexual assault squads now working as a private investigator.

https://www.thestar.com/amp/news/gt...ionaire-couple.html?__twitter_impression=true

That was interesting and says something about his character.

 

[Grace.212]

Me too.But my feet are on the homicide side now. Hard to imagine Barry committing a premeditated murder of his wife. Premeditated because he would have had to pause, locate a belt, then strangle his wife. The pause might have been mere minutes, but those minutes could have made him stop and reconsider what he was about to do. jmo
But, I do wonder why the new house was only in Honey's name ?

He could have used a belt that he was already wearing???

 

[Delhiite]

Was there a lock box on front door for realtor access or did realtor have keys?

 

[Jennifer17]

He could have used a belt that he was already wearing???

She may not have been strangled with the belt.

 

[Tighthead]

Me too.But my feet are on the homicide side now. Hard to imagine Barry committing a premeditated murder of his wife. Premeditated because he would have had to pause, locate a belt, then strangle his wife. The pause might have been mere minutes, but those minutes could have made him stop and reconsider what he was about to do. jmo
But, I do wonder why the new house was only in Honey's name ?

only in her name possibly for tax reasons, protection from liability and convenience. If she is the only owner on title, all permitting, signing of legal documents etc doesn’t have to involve Barry. Legal title is pretty much irrelevant were they to divorce.

 

[Cora]

'Overenmeshment is a condition
in which perpetrators either view "their family members as possessions that they control or [they] don’t see any boundaries between their identity, their wife and their children. And so these are suicides of the entire family, where the anomic, overly enmeshed individual can’t bear to leave the pain behind and
so takes his wife and children with him,” he said.'

This article has some great insights on murder-suicide. I am on the fence as well. One big predictor of murder-suicide is previous domestic violence. That does not appear to be the case here. However, the thought of an extreme Type A personality who wanted to control everything...including the timing of his and his wife's death seems possible.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/230412.pdf


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[Cdndm]

“The Canadian billionaire couple whose deaths are being investigated as a murder-suicide after their bodies were found hanging from poolside railings were dealing with financial woes.

The bodies of Barry, 75, and Honey Sherman, 70, were discovered last week by their realtor after they had recently put their home on the market for $5.4million. The New York Post reports the couple was entangled in dozens of lawsuits, a government investigation and mounting financial pressures.

The Shermans have donated millions in past years to hospitals and schools only donated $66,000 in 2016 according to their tax filings. In 2015 The Sherman Family Foundation didn't donate anything.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...inancial-straights-hanging.html#ixzz529rgqkXi

The Daily Mail is now claiming this New York Post nonsense. I don’t believe they were about to lose everything unless they were victims of a Madoof style Ponzi scheme which I highly doubt.

The Sherman Family Foundation was created in 2015 with directors: daughter, Lauren; Barry C Sherman; and the VP of Finance for Apotex. This would suggest that previous philanthropic activities were from another "bucket".

 

[Inthedetails]

only in her name possibly for tax reasons, protection from liability and convenience. If she is the only owner on title, all permitting, signing of legal documents etc doesn’t have to involve Barry. Legal title is pretty much irrelevant were they to divorce.

FWIW, houses and property that my parents owned were in my mom's name. My mom and dad were married for 50+ years. I think it's a financial decision, not a reflection on the marriage.

jmo

 

[liz b.]

He could have used a belt that he was already wearing???

Yes, but even at that it calls for a pause in the flow of events. A chance for reconsideration. jmo