Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #2

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #1,041
As was speculated earlier, HS must have arrived home from the meeting earlier. And we saw her car towed away, but not his car. Could it be that the killers apprehended her as she arrived and took her inside, killed her, then waited for him to arrive later?

BBM

How do we know his car was not towed? Do we know which car was his and where it was parked?

One thought occurred to me. HS may have picked him up at the office for the meeting and then they returned home together.

But as yet we have no verification from LE and no interview with the architect to verify there was a meeting.

JMO
 
  • #1,042
Is the blue car a Chrysler Sebring convertible?

In the 2008 article it said he had a 2005 Chrysler Sebring convertible. It is possible that he still has that car.

Honey could have picked him up at the office. But then either she drove him to work or will have to drive him in the morning.

I still wonder about the meals. Did staff prepare meals? Did they eat breakfast, lunch or dinner at set times? No one wondered where they were? Was staff ever told their schedules or was it random?
 
  • #1,043
Sorry if this was already posted.
It does say one car was removed.

http://m.metronews.ca/#/article/new...ice-cant-responsible-billionaires-deaths.html

"Though it’s still early in the case — Perry was quick to note that it’s been just over a week since the bodies were found — he recalled cases he’s worked on or reviewed where police didn’t rule a death one way or another because they could not say with 100-per-cent certainty that it was a suicide, a death by misadventure, or a homicide."

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 
  • #1,044
BBM

How do we know his car was not towed? Do we know which car was his and where it was parked?

I guess we don't I haven't seen any reports of that here, but in one of the news links there was a video of her SUV being towed away. Does anyone have information if his car was towed or not. If it wasn't that has to be significant. All I've read is that BS didn't replace his cars before he needed to and drove an older car. Anyone know the model?
 
  • #1,045
And,as always, the ignore function is our friend :)

no offense to anyone, but I have been reading along and I haven't noticed any snarkiness! disagreements as always, but it's actually pretty amazing what WSers are coming up with on this thread.

After reading through almost 50 pages of this, and having that advantage, think I weigh in on the double homicide.
Barry was a smart man. If he had killed Honey somewhere else, he would know that LE would figure that out, so why go to such a length to cover up what they would instantly know? If it was that he just wanted to go next to her, he could have just taken pills.

IMO, if it was a business related organized crime hit, the message was to the CEO of Apotex AND the family. Someone lost a tidy sum when he copied their drug recipes. They were saying, "this could be you." Someone wants to buy the company it seems.


IMO, if it was a family related hit it was either the
cousins for revenge and thus the humiliation or the immediate family. IMO of these two scenarios I would bet on one or more of their kids, who needed mom gone too but couldn't bear to hang her
or would be afraid she would beg and didn't want to face that. IMO
it would be about $$$. Giving away their inheritance, refusing to sell business and divide it among them, etc., mom having affair with trainer, spending $$ on new home, selling family home, etc. Good old internet will reveal whom among them looked up a fast and relatively painless way to look like dad killed mom then himself, and then demanding it be investigated as a murder was either done on purpose to seem totally innocent; or by sibling who wasn't in on it.

Just too convoluted a process for Barry to go through after killing his wife. but nothing would surprise me.
 
  • #1,046
Regarding familial murder/suicides.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...der-killing-spree-home-invasion-a7639966.html

The anatomy of family murder - the patterns and warning signs
It’s the most shocking and grisly of crimes: a seemingly everyday person suddenly, savagely, inexplicably, kills themselves and their kin. We find family annihilation too horrific, too cruel to grasp, so explain it away as random acts of lunacy. But Godfrey Holmes says there are patterns and warning signs – and if we learn to look for them, we may begin to stem the bloodshed
jeremy-bamber-house-2.jpg

One of the most infamous family annihilations ever took place in sprawling White House Farm, Essex, on 7 August 1985. Sheila Bamber, her parents Neville and June Bamber, and her sons Nicholas and Daniel, were all killed that fateful day. Worse, Sheila’s brother Jeremy Bamber, then aged 24, apparently staged everyone’s murder as if Sheila herself were the culprit. Homicide/suicide, surely? Police who initially attended the scene – ironically in response to a panicked-sounding telephone call from Jeremy – seemed content to accept that interpretation.

For weeks lasting into months, that narrative amazingly stayed unchallenged; and it is fair to say the incarcerated Bamber still maintains his absolute innocence three decades after his belated conviction and life sentencing.

Conventional instances of homicide/suicide where the perpetrator cannot go to jail because he – it is statistically far more likely to be a he – is already dead, either at the scene of horror or perhaps at some secluded beauty spot nearby – tend to have 10 common features.

The historical cases show is that in murder-suicides, first, the killer is, as said, likely to be a man: where familial, a son, brother or father rather than daughter, sister or mother. Second, isolation is frequently a factor, if not the deciding factor: geographical isolation, psychological or psychiatric isolation, perceived isolation within the family – bullying, deprivation, marginalisation, or isolated status, disgrace.
Third, often the perpetrator is consumed with hatred: sometimes hatred is fuelled by resentment. And, fourth, one influence persuading someone to attack his own family so viciously is frequently a grudge: expulsion from the home, threatened separation, refusal of money, not being mentioned in a will, unfair accusations, a partner’s alleged infidelity – or even something as trivial as “you’re forever nagging”.

Fifth, the instrument of death is more often than not extremely violent: gun, sword, knife or hammer are preferred over suffocation or gassing.
Sixth, typically escape routes are blocked, and a time chosen when the family are near-at-hand, sleeping or watching TV. Keys are hidden. Those who rush upstairs are pursued. And those who rush downstairs are trapped. Elaborate precautions are taken that a getaway car is not to hand – except for the killer’s use

Seventh, it is likely that there have been “lesser” preparatory and experimental attacks before the final showdown

Perhaps the family car is in an inexplicable crash. Or prowlers, maybe suspected of “mere” rogue-trading or peeping Tom-ery, are been seen near the later site of execution.
And there is rare forensic evidence that the escaping man, whether or not he later self-harms or takes his own life, bears scratches, bruises, cuts or organ-damage that must have been inflicted by one, more, or even all, his targets. Finally and disturbingly, tenth, if the killer dies during or following his act of family annihilation, could well be set to be pitied rather than blamed: “Poor soul” ; “Must have borne terrible suffering in the Army, at work, as a child...”; “ Moment of madness” ; “Wonderful dad” ; “Not round to put the record straight”, whatever. And this (probably undeserved) taking into account of past misfortune has possibly been orchestrated by the killer long before the act. Maybe letters have been written, certificates displayed, thousands of pounds raised for charity, compensation successfully awarded... anything to perpetuate a story of awful injustice, noble self-abnegation, valid self-sacrifice. Because the killer’s unbelievable – yet curiously tenable – accomplishment is to write the first version of history.

History he has himself fulfilled. History he has himself shaped.
 
  • #1,047
I guess we don't I haven't seen any reports of that here, but in one of the news links there was a video of her SUV being towed away. Does anyone have information if his car was towed or not. If it wasn't that has to be significant. All I've read is that BS didn't replace his cars before he needed to and drove an older car. Anyone know the model?
All I can say is that the blue car was missing from later photos and we don't know for sure who it belonged to. Photos posted earlier in the thread here http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Toronto-15-Dec-2017-2&p=13829692#post13829692
 
  • #1,048
  • #1,049


BBM


  • he historical cases show is that in murder-suicides, first, the killer is, as said, likely to be a man: where familial, a son, brother or father rather than daughter, sister or mother. Second, isolation is frequently a factor, if not the deciding factor: geographical isolation, psychological or psychiatric isolation, perceived isolation within the family – bullying, deprivation, marginalisation, or isolated status, disgrace.






It has been said that HS picked what he was to eat. Maybe she told him he couldn't have a donut one too many times.
 
  • #1,050
BBM

I agree. It took 2 days, a private investigator, a high powered lawyer and high level officials right up to the PM himself to get homicide involved. That really says it all to me.

This family is in denial, the way most families are when a family member kills someone or commits suicide. We have heard that "I don't believe it, he would never do something like that" from every family member from Kurt Cobain to Robin Williams to Heath Ledger to Stephan Paddock to Devin Kelley. Families just cannot admit that all their members are not perfect.

The LE on the scene made the call and yes mistakes are sometimes made by LE, but something in that crime scene led them to deem it a murder suicide right out of the gate.

I feel for these kids, they lost their parents in one of the most cruel and needless ways imaginable. But it is a lot of time and money wasted to appease a rich and powerful family when they could be spending it solving a real murder. IMO when the LE come back with a murder suicide they need to send these rich kids the bill for all the man hours and money spent on equipment and resources and make them pay it.

JMO

Ok, I'm going to finally weigh in here. These derogatory stereotypes/getting inside the minds of families whose loved ones die by suicide, or where there is a suicide ruling, are getting old. I can tell you exactly why the Sherman family came out with the statement about the initial leap to a murder-suicide conclusion.

I lost my son in January 2016 and it was ruled a suicide, which it may have been. But the police were lazy and decided it was a suicide before a single detective or CSI was on scene, or a single witness was questioned. This was all ultimately based on a narrative by the 911 caller who was the most likely person to be complicit and had begun hand feeding police a big bowl of word salad that they eagerly swallowed. Dispatch, of all sources, declared "suicide" to a family member out of state after she had been called by the panicked salad tosser who was about to load her pants that my son was dead and police were showing up.

What I can tell you about death 'investigations', at least in my city, where there is any suspicion of suicide and where 'homicide' doesn't jump out and hit the police in the head, the inquiry is shrugged off as a perfunctory walking around the scene, and leaning on the autopsy for opinion on what happened. In my son's case, there was a 'Ya, it's suicide' conclusion at the scene, followed by a working backwards to make select pieces, primarily promoted by the (lying) third party, align with the rushed theory.

Thankfully, families often conduct their own investigations and I did mine all on my own. I started with the convoluted police and autopsy reports which defied what the third party told police. There is, for example, a 54 minute gap in the timeline which means that for the tale and time frame told to police to be true, my son would have to have shot himself, waited 54 minutes, then shot himself again with the same bullet. According to CSI who wandered belatedly to the scene after yammering with the third party, the gun was here, then it was there, and my son's hands weren't bagged or swabbed, nor were the hands of two people central to that morning's events even checked. The gun was not my son's every day carry. The second person was not even interviewed by police. The ruling came within 6 hours of my son's body being found. The detective had multiple implausible timelines, despite supposedly having a read a phone log that was central to the timeline. She did not look at my son's phone, and she only glanced at the 'recents' on the other party's phone then handed the phone back to her.

When I asked where everyone was and who had control of what phone and when, I was screamed at and told "NOTHING is going to change the outcome of this investigation!"

So, I went on a journey. Into 5 years of my son's electronic footprint, that included all his communications until the last 4 hours and 4 minutes of his precious life. What was said to have happened did not happen. Was it suicide? Maybe. Was it murder? Maybe. And there is a lot of in between that is just plain sinister and an ambush style luring. I would call what I discovered bone-chilling and so mind-bending, I will never recover.

This business of families allegedly being too stoopid, too in denial, too distraught, or even mentally ill themselves, and lacking basic sense - while perfect strangers who free these cases from the facts (by never looking for them in the first place) are viewed as speakers of gospel, is, for me, over. As for costs, our citizens here can be confident that no nickel that might have led to the truth was even spent.

I don't know the Sherman family. I don't know the private dynamics of the marriage of Barry and Honey Sherman. I don't know what happened because I don't have the complete set of facts and evidence from the scene or elsewhere. But I can tell you that the only road to a sober and reasonable conclusion to a "suspicious" death investigation is to actually have a complete investigation that truly eliminates all other possibilities.

This family was absolutely right to say, WHOA, Nellie, we are not there yet."

In memory of Zachary and on behalf of any family member who is lacking due diligence.
 
  • #1,051
I guess we don't I haven't seen any reports of that here, but in one of the news links there was a video of her SUV being towed away. Does anyone have information if his car was towed or not. If it wasn't that has to be significant. All I've read is that BS didn't replace his cars before he needed to and drove an older car. Anyone know the model?
I posted a link at post 1044, right above yours.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 
  • #1,052
jillycat, so very sorry.
:grouphug:
 
  • #1,053
BBM


  • he historical cases show is that in murder-suicides, first, the killer is, as said, likely to be a man: where familial, a son, brother or father rather than daughter, sister or mother. Second, isolation is frequently a factor, if not the deciding factor: geographical isolation, psychological or psychiatric isolation, perceived isolation within the family – bullying, deprivation, marginalisation, or isolated status, disgrace.






It has been said that HS picked what he was to eat. Maybe she told him he couldn't have a donut one too many times.

It's my understanding that she picked out his clothes and food....because he wasn't interested in those tasks and for that reason only.

He didn't care what he looked like and probably didn't spend any amount of time thinking about meals or what to eat - so she took on those tasks for him. It sounds like a division of labor and partnership that they worked out within their marriage.

Nothing I've read indicates Honey was controlling. She seems outgoing, vivacious, and well loved.

jmo
 
  • #1,054
Ok, I'm going to finally weigh in here. These derogatory stereotypes/getting inside the minds of families whose loved ones die by suicide, or where there is a suicide ruling, are getting old. I can tell you exactly why the Sherman family came out with the statement about the initial leap to a murder-suicide conclusion.

I lost my son in January 2016 and it was ruled a suicide, which it may have been. But the police were lazy and decided it was a suicide before a single detective or CSI was on scene, or a single witness was questioned..

Exactly. I truly believe the original police conclusion of murder suicide was a typical knee-jerk reaction. Laziness. Just clear the case and move on. We don't want this crap so close to Christmas.
 
  • #1,055
Ok, I'm going to finally weigh in here. These derogatory stereotypes/getting inside the minds of families whose loved ones die by suicide, or where there is a suicide ruling, are getting old. I can tell you exactly why the Sherman family came out with the statement about the initial leap to a murder-suicide conclusion.

I lost my son in January 2016 and it was ruled a suicide, which it may have been. But the police were lazy and decided it was a suicide before a single detective or CSI was on scene, or a single witness was questioned. This was all ultimately based on a narrative by the 911 caller who was the most likely person to be complicit and had begun hand feeding police a big bowl of word salad that they eagerly swallowed. Dispatch, of all sources, declared "suicide" to a family member out of state after she had been called by the panicked salad tosser who was about to load her pants that my son was dead and police were showing up.

What I can tell you about death 'investigations', at least in my city, where there is any suspicion of suicide and where 'homicide' doesn't jump out and hit the police in the head, the inquiry is shrugged off as a perfunctory walking around the scene, and leaning on the autopsy for opinion on what happened. In my son's case, there was a 'Ya, it's suicide' conclusion at the scene, followed by a working backwards to make select pieces, primarily promoted by the (lying) third party, align with the rushed theory.

Thankfully, families often conduct their own investigations and I did mine all on my own. I started with the convoluted police and autopsy reports which defied what the third party told police. There is, for example, a 54 minute gap in the timeline which means that for the tale and time frame told to police to be true, my son would have to have shot himself, waited 54 minutes, then shot himself again with the same bullet. According to CSI who wandered belatedly to the scene after yammering with the third party, the gun was here, then it was there, and my son's hands weren't bagged or swabbed, nor were the hands of two people central to that morning's events even checked. The gun was not my son's every day carry. The second person was not even interviewed by police. The ruling came within 6 hours of my son's body being found. The detective had multiple implausible timelines, despite supposedly having a read a phone log that was central to the timeline. She did not look at my son's phone, and she only glanced at the 'recents' on the other party's phone then handed the phone back to her.

When I asked where everyone was and who had control of what phone and when, I was screamed at and told "NOTHING is going to change the outcome of this investigation!"

So, I went on a journey. Into 5 years of my son's electronic footprint, that included all his communications until the last 4 hours and 4 minutes of his precious life. What was said to have happened did not happen. Was it suicide? Maybe. Was it murder? Maybe. And there is a lot of in between that is just plain sinister and an ambush style luring. I would call what I discovered bone-chilling and so mind-bending, I will never recover.

This business of families allegedly being too stoopid, too in denial, too distraught, or even mentally ill themselves, and lacking basic sense - while perfect strangers who free these cases from the facts (by never looking for them in the first place) are viewed as speakers of gospel, is, for me, over. As for costs, our citizens here can be confident that no nickel that might have led to the truth was even spent.

I don't know the Sherman family. I don't know the private dynamics of the marriage of Barry and Honey Sherman. I don't know what happened because I don't have the complete set of facts and evidence from the scene or elsewhere. But I can tell you that the only road to a sober and reasonable conclusion to a "suspicious" death investigation is to actually have a complete investigation that truly eliminates all other possibilities.

This family was absolutely right to say, WHOA, Nellie, we are not there yet."

In memory of Zachary and on behalf of any family member who is lacking due diligence.

Yes they did this with the Rebecca Zahau case in San Diego. Her hands and feet tied and she was hung and they called it suicide. I have seen other cases like this also. It makes me think it's the lazy way out for the police.
 
  • #1,056
Ok, I'm going to finally weigh in here. These derogatory stereotypes/getting inside the minds of families whose loved ones die by suicide, or where there is a suicide ruling, are getting old. I can tell you exactly why the Sherman family came out with the statement about the initial leap to a murder-suicide conclusion.

I lost my son in January 2016 and it was ruled a suicide, which it may have been. But the police were lazy and decided it was a suicide before a single detective or CSI was on scene, or a single witness was questioned. This was all ultimately based on a narrative by the 911 caller who was the most likely person to be complicit and had begun hand feeding police a big bowl of word salad that they eagerly swallowed. Dispatch, of all sources, declared "suicide" to a family member out of state after she had been called by the panicked salad tosser who was about to load her pants that my son was dead and police were showing up.

What I can tell you about death 'investigations', at least in my city, where there is any suspicion of suicide and where 'homicide' doesn't jump out and hit the police in the head, the inquiry is shrugged off as a perfunctory walking around the scene, and leaning on the autopsy for opinion on what happened. In my son's case, there was a 'Ya, it's suicide' conclusion at the scene, followed by a working backwards to make select pieces, primarily promoted by the (lying) third party, align with the rushed theory.

Thankfully, families often conduct their own investigations and I did mine all on my own. I started with the convoluted police and autopsy reports which defied what the third party told police. There is, for example, a 54 minute gap in the timeline which means that for the tale and time frame told to police to be true, my son would have to have shot himself, waited 54 minutes, then shot himself again with the same bullet. According to CSI who wandered belatedly to the scene after yammering with the third party, the gun was here, then it was there, and my son's hands weren't bagged or swabbed, nor were the hands of two people central to that morning's events even checked. The gun was not my son's every day carry. The second person was not even interviewed by police. The ruling came within 6 hours of my son's body being found. The detective had multiple implausible timelines, despite supposedly having a read a phone log that was central to the timeline. She did not look at my son's phone, and she only glanced at the 'recents' on the other party's phone then handed the phone back to her.

When I asked where everyone was and who had control of what phone and when, I was screamed at and told "NOTHING is going to change the outcome of this investigation!"

So, I went on a journey. Into 5 years of my son's electronic footprint, that included all his communications until the last 4 hours and 4 minutes of his precious life. What was said to have happened did not happen. Was it suicide? Maybe. Was it murder? Maybe. And there is a lot of in between that is just plain sinister and an ambush style luring. I would call what I discovered bone-chilling and so mind-bending, I will never recover.

This business of families allegedly being too stoopid, too in denial, too distraught, or even mentally ill themselves, and lacking basic sense - while perfect strangers who free these cases from the facts (by never looking for them in the first place) are viewed as speakers of gospel, is, for me, over. As for costs, our citizens here can be confident that no nickel that might have led to the truth was even spent.

I don't know the Sherman family. I don't know the private dynamics of the marriage of Barry and Honey Sherman. I don't know what happened because I don't have the complete set of facts and evidence from the scene or elsewhere. But I can tell you that the only road to a sober and reasonable conclusion to a "suspicious" death investigation is to actually have a complete investigation that truly eliminates all other possibilities.

This family was absolutely right to say, WHOA, Nellie, we are not there yet."

In memory of Zachary and on behalf of any family member who is lacking due diligence.


Thank you jillycat.
Very moving.
I hope you are very satisfied, and proud of yourself, that you did all you could.

Almost 20 years ago, a family member died, and I was very suspicious.
I'm afraid, I did not have your tenacity, and accepted the report.
I was naive, feeling these 'experts', would be correct, that I am just a nuisance.
This was years before my venturing into Websleuths, now seeing how wrong these 'expert' decisions and findings can be..
 
  • #1,057
Ok, I'm going to finally weigh in here. These derogatory stereotypes/getting inside the minds of families whose loved ones die by suicide, or where there is a suicide ruling, are getting old. I can tell you exactly why the Sherman family came out with the statement about the initial leap to a murder-suicide conclusion.

I lost my son in January 2016 and it was ruled a suicide, which it may have been. But the police were lazy and decided it was a suicide before a single detective or CSI was on scene, or a single witness was questioned. This was all ultimately based on a narrative by the 911 caller who was the most likely person to be complicit and had begun hand feeding police a big bowl of word salad that they eagerly swallowed. Dispatch, of all sources, declared "suicide" to a family member out of state after she had been called by the panicked salad tosser who was about to load her pants that my son was dead and police were showing up.

What I can tell you about death 'investigations', at least in my city, where there is any suspicion of suicide and where 'homicide' doesn't jump out and hit the police in the head, the inquiry is shrugged off as a perfunctory walking around the scene, and leaning on the autopsy for opinion on what happened. In my son's case, there was a 'Ya, it's suicide' conclusion at the scene, followed by a working backwards to make select pieces, primarily promoted by the (lying) third party, align with the rushed theory.

Thankfully, families often conduct their own investigations and I did mine all on my own. I started with the convoluted police and autopsy reports which defied what the third party told police. There is, for example, a 54 minute gap in the timeline which means that for the tale and time frame told to police to be true, my son would have to have shot himself, waited 54 minutes, then shot himself again with the same bullet. According to CSI who wandered belatedly to the scene after yammering with the third party, the gun was here, then it was there, and my son's hands weren't bagged or swabbed, nor were the hands of two people central to that morning's events even checked. The gun was not my son's every day carry. The second person was not even interviewed by police. The ruling came within 6 hours of my son's body being found. The detective had multiple implausible timelines, despite supposedly having a read a phone log that was central to the timeline. She did not look at my son's phone, and she only glanced at the 'recents' on the other party's phone then handed the phone back to her.

When I asked where everyone was and who had control of what phone and when, I was screamed at and told "NOTHING is going to change the outcome of this investigation!"

So, I went on a journey. Into 5 years of my son's electronic footprint, that included all his communications until the last 4 hours and 4 minutes of his precious life. What was said to have happened did not happen. Was it suicide? Maybe. Was it murder? Maybe. And there is a lot of in between that is just plain sinister and an ambush style luring. I would call what I discovered bone-chilling and so mind-bending, I will never recover.

This business of families allegedly being too stoopid, too in denial, too distraught, or even mentally ill themselves, and lacking basic sense - while perfect strangers who free these cases from the facts (by never looking for them in the first place) are viewed as speakers of gospel, is, for me, over. As for costs, our citizens here can be confident that no nickel that might have led to the truth was even spent.

I don't know the Sherman family. I don't know the private dynamics of the marriage of Barry and Honey Sherman. I don't know what happened because I don't have the complete set of facts and evidence from the scene or elsewhere. But I can tell you that the only road to a sober and reasonable conclusion to a "suspicious" death investigation is to actually have a complete investigation that truly eliminates all other possibilities.

This family was absolutely right to say, WHOA, Nellie, we are not there yet."

In memory of Zachary and on behalf of any family member who is lacking due diligence.

Please accept my condolences on your loss of your son. A parent never fully recovers from the death of a child. Believe me I have been there four times myself. Mine were infants who lived only a few days and passed away in the hospital, but still it is always with me. I know how you feel.

My SIl's oldest son committed suicide back in 1972. He shot himself in a parked car. She still says often she believes someone killed him. But evidence at the scene and statements from friends and co workers about his being depressed and drinking for months prior ( she had not seen him for about 6 months since he lived and worked out of state) convinces me he did indeed kill himself. I never tell her that though.

Recently, during hurricane Harvey in fact, my great nephew committed suicide after a a fight with his wife. He had just returned from Afghanistan and was diagnosed with PTSD shortly after he returned. He disappeared the first night the hurricane hit and his body was not found for three weeks after. Because of flood waters the gun used was not found close to his body in the car but instead was in the floorboard. The first thing she said was "no way he killed himself. Someone must have tried to rob him during the hurricane and shot him during the robbery." Even though she knew he had PTSD and was very depressed and that there was a clear cut trigger (the fight with his wife) she still struggles with it every single day. She told me a few days ago that she feels such an overwhelming sense that she failed him as a mother. I told her that no way she could have foreseen his returning from the army with PTSD. I told her that no way could she have watched him or been with him 24/7. That she did all she could when she talked him into getting help for his PTSD. She still sometimes says no way he killed himself, it must have been someone else who killed him.

A year ago a 21 year old friend of my grandson hung himself from a tree down by a pond on his dad's land. The boy was at our house often and I had seen that boy just a few days prior. He was showing me pictures of his newborn baby girl on his cell phone. I will always remember how proud he was that day of that baby. A few days later he told his wife and dad that if anyone wanted him he would be down by the pond. Two hours later his 14 year old brother went to tell him dinner was ready and everyone was waiting on him to come to eat. He was hanging face down from a low hanging tree limb with a rope around his neck. My grandson still says no way he killed himself. Someone else must have killed him.

So I do have some experience in families that are in denial when their relatives commit suicide. As my niece said, they feel such an overwhelming sense that they failed their relative. It is easier to blame someone else rather than go through the agony of "If only I had... If only I had known.... I too have played the questioning game where my great nephew and that boy who was my grandsons friends is concerned. But in my heart I know the truth is that life just got too much for them so they decided to check themselves out of it.

I mean no hostility toward the Sherman kids. I know they lost their parents in the worst way ever. I know the anger, the loss, the guilt, the grief the denial they feel. I have felt that same anger, loss grief and guilt and denial and I know it is easier to blame a vague stranger than to blame a loved one.

JMO
 
  • #1,058
Exactly. I truly believe the original police conclusion of murder suicide was a typical knee-jerk reaction. Laziness. Just clear the case and move on. We don't want this crap so close to Christmas.

And the jobs of the police and coroner are to seek and find answers based on where the evidence leads, and that means all of the evidence, not what it looks like or seems like or was/is true in most similar scenarios, or their last case.

We don't know what the ruling is or why at this point. But the police and coroner do themselves no favors with these rushed declarations at the beginning, so I don't personally buy that the police and the citizenry are stuck with an expensive process caused by the family. The deceased are owed an inquiry and LE by profession is supposed to know the scope and extent of that inquiry. If they truly have known all along that this is a murder-suicide or double suicide, then they need to stand by their findings and spit it out. If they didn't know, or still don't know, they need to keep looking no matter what the costs. And if they're just going through motions, they own that, not the family.
 
  • #1,059
Reminder of what LE said on the day the bodies were discovered.
Noting that the names were provided by " sources " not LE.
https://www.cp24.com/news/pharma-gi...-barry-and-honey-sherman-found-dead-1.3723714
Kayla Goodfield, CP24.com
Published Friday, December 15, 2017 3:45PM EST
Last Updated Friday, December 15, 2017 10:47PM EST
Police have not identified the two deceased people but CP24 has confirmed with two sources the deceased are Bernard (Barry) and Honey Sherman
Officers said the two victims were pronounced dead at the scene.
Speaking to reporters in front of the home, Const. David Hopkinson said the victims’ deaths are being treated as suspicious at this time.

“The circumstances of their deaths appear suspicious and we are treating it that way,” he said. “Our investigators are inside (the home) investigating and taking apart the scene.”

“Until we know exactly how they died we treat it as suspicious and once a determination has been made with the pathologist and the coroner then we move forward from there.”

Officers added that the homicide unit is assisting in the investigation but are not leading it.
There is no concern for public safety, Hopkinson said but he urged anyone with further information to call investigators
.
rbbm.
 
  • #1,060
BBM


  • he historical cases show is that in murder-suicides, first, the killer is, as said, likely to be a man: where familial, a son, brother or father rather than daughter, sister or mother. Second, isolation is frequently a factor, if not the deciding factor: geographical isolation, psychological or psychiatric isolation, perceived isolation within the family – bullying, deprivation, marginalisation, or isolated status, disgrace.






It has been said that HS picked what he was to eat. Maybe she told him he couldn't have a donut one too many times.
She supposedly dressed him as well... Maybe she wanted them to wear matching outfits and he lost it.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
103
Guests online
2,808
Total visitors
2,911

Forum statistics

Threads
632,261
Messages
18,623,981
Members
243,067
Latest member
paint_flowers
Back
Top