Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #2

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  • #1,101
I wonder about the parking in the driveway. Maybe this does not happen in Toronto. In MN, overnight your car can get ice on all of the windows and the way to get rid of it is to scrape or throw antifreeze on it. Honey may know she was not going out until later, so if there was ice on the car windows, it might melt during the day.

I still wonder where the staff thought they were. Did they often leave with no indication of where they were or when they may return?
 
  • #1,102
There would be some sort of tell tale signs of her being dragged...

Time will tell.

Not if she was rolled up in a rug. You do not bruise after death.
 
  • #1,103
Snow on the ground so if there was someone else at the house the previous night or the day the bodies were found they likely left footprints in the snow. If they had a car parked nearby then tire prints and footprints leading to and away from the home?


Unless the staff snow-blowed the driveway and they came in that way.

The snow is an interesting angle.

I wonder if LE took notice.

I wonder if this is going to turn into a JonBenet-like type of scenario.
 
  • #1,104
Not if she was rolled up in a rug. You do not bruise after death.

Maybe things being disturbed from dragging, but staff noticed nothing apparently
 
  • #1,105
no. nothing of the sort has been said. The only statement was the COD. JMO

So...where did the boots claim come from...I've seen it a few times. Not challenging you...just asking if you know?
 
  • #1,106
Canadian pharmaceuticals billionaireBarry Sherman*failed to implement a succession plan at his Apotex business before his death last week, two business associates told Reuters, potentially leaving it vulnerable to takeover approaches.

As reported in Haaretz.com (link below)
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.haaretz.com/amp/jewish/news/1.831024

So extremely intelligent businessman had no succession plan? Making the business vulnerable?
 
  • #1,107
So...where did the boots claim come from...I've seen it a few times. Not challenging you...just asking if you know?

It has been posted a few times a few posts back. The source
 
  • #1,108
So...where did the boots claim come from...I've seen it a few times. Not challenging you...just asking if you know?

I believe it was in Frank Magazine, a satirical rag that takes on the wealthy and politicos.

Someone posted a link just upthread a bit. IMO ..... Keep forgetting to post this most important three letters.
 
  • #1,109
Not if she was rolled up in a rug. You do not bruise after death.

I didn't necessarily mean marks on her body....what about signs in the house, on the floors, carpets, staircase, pool deck etc....
 
  • #1,110
  • #1,111
I'm sorry you've been through this. And I realize that loved ones are often shocked or in disbelief. My point is that when law enforcement calls the manner of death (and to the media!) before they complete (or even start) an investigation, and when the manner can only be ruled on by the ME, they are already off course. You cannot objectively go on a fact finding mission if you've already decided the facts.

In my own case, I was right as rain about the tale being utterly fantastical and implausible. I had to spend exhaustive amounts of time parsing BS from facts, and the impossible from the plausible. So instead of being a mother and entering the deep grieving that is part of this, I had to be a detective and a logician and chase information from multiple and my own cross-referenced sources, because police and the coroner's office couldn't tell the same story twice - and all because they were lazy, judgmental, and eating out of the hand of a person who has since been discovered to be lying to everyone.

Three people know what happened the morning of my son's death. One is dead, one is lying and one was never even interviewed.

The family has enough to manage without unnecessary questions. It's one thing to receive sober and evidenced-backed answers and not believe them. It's another to have to insist that a full investigation should be the source of the answers, and to seek evidence and findings on your own when confidence is lost because authorities were prematurely lippy, or just plain sloppy.

Maybe the Sherman family will not accept anything but a double murder ruling. But that isn't the issue. The police have a job no matter what the family is likely to believe.

BBM

When my great nephew disappeared right before the hurricane hit, my niece notified LE right away. As soon as his wife called and said he didn't come home from the store. She was told that he probably holed up somewhere because of the torrential rains (they live northeast of Houston TX near the coast). We prayed constantly that was the case, he was just unable to get home through the flooding. All through the days after the hurricane we hoped and prayed he was somewhere safe and just couldn't get home because the water was too high. None of her family was able to be with her ( I live in another state so was unable to be there) because no one was allowed in or out of her area. I can tell you right now it was a living Hell for us all. It was three long weeks before they located his car down by Alvin TX. It was in a creek and was finally spotted when the water went down by a guy who lived there. We have no idea how it got that far down, unless flood waters carried it that far. All that time LE was so busy with the flooding from the hurricane and displaced residents they had no time to look for him.

LE did not even investigate after they found him. The moment they heard PTSD that was it for them. The coroner came and took one look at the gunshot wound in his head and ruled it suicide. Was there in doubt it was suicide? I don't think so.

Would it have saved him if they had looked for him and found him that night? Maybe. But even if they saved him that night, would it have made a difference or would he have just tried it another day? I don't know. Was I angry at LE? Yes I was, but I understood why they couldn't look. Have I accepted that anger. Yes. Has my niece? I don't know but I do know we are here for her.
 
  • #1,112
Canadian pharmaceuticals billionaireBarry Sherman*failed to implement a succession plan at his Apotex business before his death last week, two business associates told Reuters, potentially leaving it vulnerable to takeover approaches.

As reported in Haaretz.com (link below)
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.haaretz.com/amp/jewish/news/1.831024

So extremely intelligent businessman had no succession plan? Making the business vulnerable?

Yet, they claim there was a plan.

It will depend on how much ownership he had, and who he left it to. The children may not want to run the company, but may want to retain ownership.

One more avenue to look at in terms of motive. If it was a double homicide, the list of potential suspects must be a long one.
 
  • #1,113
  • #1,114
Retired Toronto homicide detective probing Shermans’ deaths
45 mins ago

Snipped...
...Greenspan said Wednesday that the experts hired will provide support to the family as well as offer a “second lens” into the couple’s deaths. He noted that Toronto police still have control of the scene at the Sherman’s home, but that the private experts will conduct a second investigation of the home when the police are finished.

Klatt did not respond to a request for comment Wednesday but Greenspan, who asked that all media inquiries go through him, called the retired detective “one of the most distinguished homicide investigators that Toronto Police Service had.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...micide-detective-probing-shermans-deaths.html
 
  • #1,115
Canadian pharmaceuticals billionaireBarry Sherman*failed to implement a succession plan at his Apotex business before his death last week, two business associates told Reuters, potentially leaving it vulnerable to takeover approaches.

As reported in Haaretz.com (link below)
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.haaretz.com/amp/jewish/news/1.831024

So extremely intelligent businessman had no succession plan? Making the business vulnerable?

I didn't think it was a publicly listed company. Can there be a takeover of a private company?
 
  • #1,116
BBM

When my great nephew disappeared right before the hurricane hit, my niece notified LE right away. As soon as his wife called and said he didn't come home from the store. She was told that he probably holed up somewhere because of the torrential rains (they live northeast of Houston TX near the coast). We prayed constantly that was the case, he was just unable to get home through the flooding. All through the days after the hurricane we hoped and prayed he was somewhere safe and just couldn't get home because the water was too high. None of her family was able to be with her ( I live in another state so was unable to be there) because no one was allowed in or out of her area. I can tell you right now it was a living Hell for us all. It was three long weeks before they located his car down by Alvin TX. It was in a creek and was finally spotted when the water went down by a guy who lived there. We have no idea how it got that far down, unless flood waters carried it that far. All that time LE was so busy with the flooding from the hurricane and displaced residents they had no time to look for him.

LE did not even investigate after they found him. The moment they heard PTSD that was it for them. The coroner came and took one look at the gunshot wound in his head and ruled it suicide. Was there in doubt it was suicide? I don't think so.

Would it have saved him if they had looked for him and found him that night? Maybe. But even if they saved him that night, would it have made a difference or would he have just tried it another day? I don't know. Was I angry at LE? Yes I was, but I understood why they couldn't look. Have I accepted that anger. Yes. Has my niece? I don't know but I do know we are here for her.

I think each case has its own facts and each police department owns what it does or doesn't do. Some police departments handle all death investigations with excellent professional care and solid inquiry. And some don't. As I've told family and the police, who've said nothing will bring my son back, I've never associated the truth with bringing my son back to life. Rather, the truth matters, and it takes effort to learn it, no matter what things appear to be or how distracting someone's word salad might be.

In the Sherman case, we have no idea what the police did before the homicide detective came on board, or why homicide became involved. Personally, I don't think there is a 'suicide' type, where Barry can be assessed from the armchair to be the type, and Honey is known to not have been because she was vivacious.

No idea what happened to this couple. I just hope they and the family received due diligence. It makes all the difference when living in the hell the family can now call home.
 
  • #1,117
In the Sherman case, we have no idea what the police did before the homicide detective came on board, or why homicide became involved. Personally, I don't think there is a 'suicide' type, where Barry can be assessed from the armchair to be the type, and Honey is known to not have been because she was vivacious.

Snipped and bolded by me.

As far as we know at this point, Honey did not commit suicide.

It's unknown at this point if Barry did or not.

Just trying to keep the few pieces of information we have clear.

Of course, with more info, everything we think happened might change. jmo
 
  • #1,118
Snipped and bolded by me.

As far as we know at this point, Honey did not commit suicide.

It's unknown at this point if Barry did or not.

Just trying to keep the few pieces of information we have clear.

Of course, with more info, everything we think happened might change. jmo

I was referring to previous remarks about Barry being a candidate for suicide while Honey wasn't. I just don't think we know that, no matter what happened that particular night or morning.

I have no idea what happened and don't know enough to really guess with any sense of certainty.
 
  • #1,119
I was referring to previous remarks about Barry being a candidate for suicide while Honey wasn't. I just don't think we know that, no matter what happened that particular night or morning.

I have no idea what happened and don't know enough to really guess with any sense of certainty.

Actually, amongst the discussion about things that might be signs of suicidal thoughts, I recall someone injecting the idea that HS might not have been the victim in this.

Although not the stereotypical murder-suicide, it's an interesting angle to ponder.
 
  • #1,120
I was referring to previous remarks about Barry being a candidate for suicide while Honey wasn't. I just don't think we know that, no matter what happened that particular night or morning.

I have no idea what happened and don't know enough to really guess with any sense of certainty.

I think the post you are referring to was mine....and I was talking about whether or not Honey was controlling, not whether or not she was suicidal. I used the word "vivacious" to describe her as that is what I've read about her. I do not get the impression she was controlling.

Perhaps someone else talked about Honey being suicidal - but, again, from what we know now, she didn't die from suicide so it's sort of pointless to wonder if she was suicidal.

We have such little information that I'm just trying to keep it straight.

jmo
 
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