Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #2

[Jennifer17]

Actually, amongst the discussion about things that might be signs of suicidal thoughts, I recall someone injecting the idea that HS might not have been the victim in this.

Although not the stereotypical murder-suicide, it's an interesting angle to ponder.

Did LE say that she died in another location? Or was that 'sources'? It is so difficult to work out what LE has said against what sources say that they have said.

 

[matou]

Toronto Mayor John Tory has acted as a conduit for the family of Barry and Honey Sherman, telling police that relatives are upset with how the service has communicated information about the billionaire couple's deaths.


A spokesman for the mayor confirmed that Mr. Tory has spoken several times to the Shermans' relatives, both by phone and at last week's memorial service, where the mayor delivered remarks. Don Peat said in an e-mail that it was normal for Mr. Tory to reach out to the families of people who suffer violence in the city.


What is different here is the scale of public interest in the deaths of the Shermans, who were found in their North York home earlier this month. That interest has prompted a flurry of media coverage, some of it fed by inside information, which has raised ire among the Shermans' four adult children and extended family.

I'm not so sure the mayor has reached out to police on behalf of all homicide victims in Toronto. hmmmmm.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...out-handling-of-sherman-case/article37439873/

 

[Snoop Sister]

Canadian pharmaceuticals billionaireBarry Sherman*failed to implement a succession plan at his Apotex business before his death last week, two business associates told Reuters, potentially leaving it vulnerable to takeover approaches.

As reported in Haaretz.com (link below)
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.haaretz.com/amp/jewish/news/1.831024

So extremely intelligent businessman had no succession plan? Making the business vulnerable?

Yet it was stated by Apotex in another article that when he retired, five years ago as CEO, a succession plan went in to place. I will try to find the link.

Here is the link
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/apotex-barry-sherman-succession-1.4462150

 

[DarkSkink]

Yet it was stated in another article that when he retired as CEO, I five year succession plan was put into place. I will try to find the link.

I remember reading that as well. Lo and behold 5 years later and...

 

[Inthedetails]

Yet it was stated in another article that when he retired as CEO, I five year succession plan was put into place. I will try to find the link.

I recall that too.

 

[dotr]

Which one is correct?
December 22 2017
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/1...-plan-in-place-5-years-ago-apotex_a_23315518/

"Barry had developed a robust succession plan which he began implementing five years ago when he stepped down as CEO. From that point on until his tragic death, Dr. Sherman was no longer involved in day-to-day operations at Apotex rather, focused on some specific aspects of the business," Apotex spokesman Jordan Berman said in an email Friday.

https://ca.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idCAKBN1EF2YF-OCABS?utm_source=34553&utm_medium=partner

TORONTO (Reuters) - Canadian pharmaceuticals billionaire Barry Sherman failed to implement a succession plan at his Apotex business before his death last week, two business associates told Reuters, potentially leaving it vulnerable to takeover approaches.

Sherman’s son Jonathon, who has a degree in industrial engineering from Columbia University, took at job at the firm after graduating but quit after less than a year.

 

[jillycat]

BBM

That was my remark. If it is what is disturbing you to this extent then I am sorry for making it. I do realize it is coming close to victim bashing and apologize to anyone it has offended.


I will say this. Like some others on here, I think if the Shermans had been some poor couple in the, let's say lower income part of town, and their kids had insisted that LE got it wrong and demanded that they investigate the crime as a double murder, they would have been ushered out of the police station in a hurry.

We got an old saying around here: Money talks and bull s....t walks.

And a wise old man once told me :talk is cheap, but it takes money to buy whiskey.

Sorry if this offends anyone else but I think LE saw enough in their first look to conclude it was a murder suicide. And there are some people in the world that needs to re examine their perception that just because someone is extremely wealthy they don't kill their spouses.

JMO

I can't imagine that anyone believes that having money is a vaccine against potential for murder. I've seen some discussion that argues that Barry wouldn't give up a life of his making and choosing for an exit such as this. That may or may not be accurate. We really don't know how Honey died, or when or why, if the claim that she was killed in another location is true, whether or not that means she was killed only feet or a distance away, or how she ended up hanged in a second location.

It's true that LE is often not willing to listen to any suggestion that they got something wrong, but I still contend that if these police are climbing around on roofs and digging around in sewers to appease the rich, LE owns that decision. They and all police also own any decision to dismiss concerns and red flags perceived by any family, rich or poor. Considering that information is not the same thing as letting family lead police behavior. Family often has information and perspective that can be part of making complete sense of things, or even provide insight or facts that defy other presumed conclusions. At this point, I'm not willing to dump on the family for their statement, which was reasonable to me, simply because they're rich or because families are viewed as being irrational. Or something like that.

Again, it's one thing to see what you see and note an impression when walking into a death investigation. It's another to refuse to see any other explanation that may emerge because you already decided. For now, we don't know what they found and we don't know how hard they looked before the family spoke out.

 

[Tighthead]

Are you asking me if I think blabbering to the press about an impression, which is different than a completed investigative ruling, is justified as long as it's the lead investigator doing the blabbering?

My point has been that if the investigation just started, no one knows what the factual conclusions will be, so why discuss what things 'look' like? All this has done is cause more family stress and reaction, and now we have the police cast as victims because it's perceived that the family is pressuring them and making them search sewers and impound a car. ?

Wouldn't it be more objectively reasonable to go about one's police business, not fire up the press with first impression speculation, and let the sum total of evidence, including coroner ruling on manner, lead where it leads?

<modsnip>

Give me a specific quote where police are cast as &#8220;victims&#8221; - that&#8217;s another charged word. Who is casting them as &#8220;victims&#8221; and what impact does it have on anything? With specificity, how is it relevant to the objective facts?

Please provide a source that this was in fact a &#8220;first impression&#8221;. That is a very strong assertion. <modsnip>

 

[DarkSkink]

I can't imagine that anyone believes that having money is a vaccine against potential for murder. I've seen some discussion that argues that Barry wouldn't give up a life of his making and choosing for an exit such as this. That may or may not be accurate. We really don't know how Honey died, or when or why, if the claim that she was killed in another location is true, whether or not that means she was killed only feet or a distance away, or how she ended up hanged in a second location.

It's true that LE is often not willing to listen to any suggestion that they got something wrong, but I still contend that if these police are climbing around on roofs and digging around in sewers to appease the rich, LE owns that decision. They and all police also own any decision to dismiss concerns and red flags perceived by any family, rich or poor. Considering that information is not the same thing as letting family lead police behavior. Family often has information and perspective that can be part of making complete sense of things, or even provide insight or facts that defy other presumed conclusions. At this point, I'm not willing to dump on the family for their statement, which was reasonable to me, simply because they're rich or because families are viewed as being irrational. Or something like that.

Again, it's one thing to see what you see and note an impression when walking into a death investigation. It's another to refuse to see any other explanation that may emerge because you already decided. For now, we don't know what they found and we don't know how hard they looked before the family spoke out.

I wonder if there would be any difference in life insurance payments should it be ruled a murder suicide rather than a double homicide?

I wonder if they even had any life insurance, since apparently they didn't live large and were frugal.

 

[dotr]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...out-handling-of-sherman-case/article37439873/

What is different here is the scale of public interest in the deaths of the Shermans, who were found in their North York home earlier this month. That interest has prompted a flurry of media coverage, some of it fed by inside information, which has raised ire among the Shermans' four adult children and extended family.



"Most of the mayor's conversation with the Sherman family involved him expressing condolences. The family did raise a concern that they were seeing information in the media before it was communicated to them by police," Mr. Peat said in an e-mail.

A police car is still stationed outside the Shermans' house on Old Colony Road, a cul de sac in north Toronto. Yellow police tape continues to block the unshovelled driveway and is draped across a For Sale sign on the home, which the couple recently listed for $6.9-million.

Neighbours on the street said that police had come by to ask if they had seen anything suspicious, and if they had front-facing security cameras that would have footage of the street

In the nearly two weeks since the bodies of Ms. Sherman, 70, and Mr. Sherman, 75, were discovered, Toronto officers have combed the inside of the 12,000-square-foot home and been seen checking the roof, garage and nearby sewers.

 

[LadyL]

and common for older folks

It's my understanding that she picked out his clothes and food....because he wasn't interested in those tasks and for that reason only.

He didn't care what he looked like and probably didn't spend any amount of time thinking about meals or what to eat - so she took on those tasks for him. It sounds like a division of labor and partnership that they worked out within their marriage.

Nothing I've read indicates Honey was controlling. She seems outgoing, vivacious, and well loved.

jmo

 

[Jennifer17]

and common for older folks

I once had a couple visiting me (not old) and I asked the husband how he took his coffee and he had to ask his wife!

 

[Snoop Sister]

Which one is correct?
December 22 2017
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/1...2YF-OCABS?utm_source=34553&utm_medium=partner

The link I posted was a direct quote from Apotex.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/apotex-barry-sherman-succession-1.4462150

 

[zencompass]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/apotex-barry-sherman-succession-1.4462150

The (above) article mentions that Barry Sherman initiated a "succession plan" five years ago.

From the article:

"Barry had developed a robust succession plan which he began implementing five years ago when he stepped down as CEO," Apotex spokesman Jordan Berman said in an email Friday. "

"From that point on until his tragic death, Dr. Sherman was no longer involved in day-to-day operations at Apotex rather, focused on some specific aspects of the business."

The above article was what I found regarding Barry Sherman's succession plan.

 

[pamelado2]

Ok, I'm going to finally weigh in here. These derogatory stereotypes/getting inside the minds of families whose loved ones die by suicide, or where there is a suicide ruling, are getting old. I can tell you exactly why the Sherman family came out with the statement about the initial leap to a murder-suicide conclusion.

I lost my son in January 2016 and it was ruled a suicide, which it may have been. But the police were lazy and decided it was a suicide before a single detective or CSI was on scene, or a single witness was questioned. This was all ultimately based on a narrative by the 911 caller who was the most likely person to be complicit and had begun hand feeding police a big bowl of word salad that they eagerly swallowed. Dispatch, of all sources, declared "suicide" to a family member out of state after she had been called by the panicked salad tosser who was about to load her pants that my son was dead and police were showing up.

What I can tell you about death 'investigations', at least in my city, where there is any suspicion of suicide and where 'homicide' doesn't jump out and hit the police in the head, the inquiry is shrugged off as a perfunctory walking around the scene, and leaning on the autopsy for opinion on what happened. In my son's case, there was a 'Ya, it's suicide' conclusion at the scene, followed by a working backwards to make select pieces, primarily promoted by the (lying) third party, align with the rushed theory.

Thankfully, families often conduct their own investigations and I did mine all on my own. I started with the convoluted police and autopsy reports which defied what the third party told police. There is, for example, a 54 minute gap in the timeline which means that for the tale and time frame told to police to be true, my son would have to have shot himself, waited 54 minutes, then shot himself again with the same bullet. According to CSI who wandered belatedly to the scene after yammering with the third party, the gun was here, then it was there, and my son's hands weren't bagged or swabbed, nor were the hands of two people central to that morning's events even checked. The gun was not my son's every day carry. The second person was not even interviewed by police. The ruling came within 6 hours of my son's body being found. The detective had multiple implausible timelines, despite supposedly having a read a phone log that was central to the timeline. She did not look at my son's phone, and she only glanced at the 'recents' on the other party's phone then handed the phone back to her.

When I asked where everyone was and who had control of what phone and when, I was screamed at and told "NOTHING is going to change the outcome of this investigation!"

So, I went on a journey. Into 5 years of my son's electronic footprint, that included all his communications until the last 4 hours and 4 minutes of his precious life. What was said to have happened did not happen. Was it suicide? Maybe. Was it murder? Maybe. And there is a lot of in between that is just plain sinister and an ambush style luring. I would call what I discovered bone-chilling and so mind-bending, I will never recover.

This business of families allegedly being too stoopid, too in denial, too distraught, or even mentally ill themselves, and lacking basic sense - while perfect strangers who free these cases from the facts (by never looking for them in the first place) are viewed as speakers of gospel, is, for me, over. As for costs, our citizens here can be confident that no nickel that might have led to the truth was even spent.

I don't know the Sherman family. I don't know the private dynamics of the marriage of Barry and Honey Sherman. I don't know what happened because I don't have the complete set of facts and evidence from the scene or elsewhere. But I can tell you that the only road to a sober and reasonable conclusion to a "suspicious" death investigation is to actually have a complete investigation that truly eliminates all other possibilities.

This family was absolutely right to say, WHOA, Nellie, we are not there yet."

In memory of Zachary and on behalf of any family member who is lacking due diligence.

So sorry to hear your story jillycat, it's heartbreaking.

Something similar happened in our family in the 80's. My cousin's death was ruled a suicide even though she was found with her hands tied behind her back. We think her husband convinced the investigators of this. At the time she was living 1000 miles away from any family. Her parents eventually gave up the fight. I was only about 11 or 12 when it happened so I wasn't really in any of the conversations but i remember it was so hard on everyone.

I sure hope the Sherman's get justice.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[Snoop Sister]

The above article was what I found regarding Barry Sherman's succession plan.

I already posted this link about 5 times so far

 

[zencompass]

Dear Jillycat,

Thank you for your insightful and deeply compassionate posts.

I agree with you that even mention of "murder-suicide" from a "police source"
made no sense to me.

After all, the post mortem exams had not yet even taken place.

In my opinion, the bodies offer clues during post mortem examinations.

 

[Sherlockhemlock]

Yes they did this with the Rebecca Zahau case in San Diego. Her hands and feet tied and she was hung and they called it suicide. I have seen other cases like this also. It makes me think it's the lazy way out for the police.

Sadly far too many cold cases end up being the result of lazy police work.

 

[zencompass]

I already posted this link about 5 times so far

Good. Far better to post information more often than people having to go back hundreds of posts to find quotes.

That seems to be a problem lately for folks looking for quotes because of so many posts.

So, good job. No worries.

 

[pamelado2]

Did LE say that she died in another location? Or was that 'sources'? It is so difficult to work out what LE has said against what sources say that they have said.

It was 'sources'.

LE's only statement so far has been that the deaths are suspicious and they are investigating every angle.

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