Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #3

[otto]

Anyone know how long it would take to build the new home in Forest hill? I am guessing at least a year. Had they even broken ground? We are in a deep freeze in Toronto with extremely cold weather. I am also guessing this would delay construction in the winter months.

I dont understand with all their wealth why they would have listed the Colony Rd home so early in the process.

Their last home was built from 1985 - 1991, cost $2.3 million, and they got out of paying $2 million through lawsuits.

I agree that listing their current home today when they have no home to move into in Toronto is a good question. Did Barry decide to list the home so they could move into the Forest Hills home and then he learned that the house had been demolished?

There's a story in the new house that the family isn't sharing with the public, and I suspect it is at the core of this murder suicide.

 

[otto]

Unless the extortion was information or something else non monetary.

The wife was killed first. What's the leverage in the alleged extortion? I'll kill your wife but look she's already dead?

 

[otto]

Just rewatched most of the memorial service, can anyone tell me which sister was which.
One on very left, off to the side, not in view most of the time when Jonathon was speaking, didn’t see her speak, then one wearing sunglasses to the left, who recited the words to “you are my sunshine” and then one on right who sang?

Do you have a link to the memorial service?
Thanks

 

[Tortoise]

Their last home was built from 1985 - 1991, cost $2.3 million, and they got out of paying $2 million through lawsuits.

I agree that listing their current home today when they have no home to move into in Toronto is a good question. Did Barry decide to list the home so they could move into the Forest Hills home and then he learned that the house had been demolished?

There's a story in the new house that the family isn't sharing with the public, and I suspect it is at the core of this murder suicide.

Do you reckon he went to see an architect without knowing they were planning to build anything?

Murder suicide is not a fact.

 

[Tortoise]

The wife was killed first. What's the leverage in the alleged extortion? I'll kill your wife but look she's already dead?

Not a fact.

 

[human]

I doubt if Barry cared much about the house. If the reports are true, he was rarely home. The house had been in the works for awhile.

Where were they going to live if the oresent house got sold?

 

[enelram]

I'm still unsure of a lot of things here.
My thoughts and opinions thus far:

Despite friends' comments, no outsider really knows or understands the personal dynamics between BS and HS.
He does not seem like a 'loveable' husband to me. She tolerated him due to his income producing lifestyle.
I've witnessed numerous, affluent couples this age, who lived under the same roof but really lived separate lives.
Except for public appearances they did nothing together. Separate bedrooms, separate lives. I'd also like to hear more about the personal trainer coming to the house. Was he a romantic interest? Was BS jealous of him? Was HS
making plans for a new, more separate life?

I have a personal theory about money and business, learned from years in business- The more money you make, the more people are chasing you. More potential disagreements, more legal battles, just more people chasing you for $$$.

So, IMO, there are dozens of people who would like to have offed BS. He had crossed over into huge money deals
and huge potential outcomes. He said it himself, that he was surprised no one had snuffed out his lights. He knew
it was a potential result of his business practices. If true that he was ruthless in business, my guess is he was also
ruthless in his personal dealings with people. You don't normally switch that off and on.

 

[pamelado2]

I'm still unsure of a lot of things here.
My thoughts and opinions thus far:

Despite friends' comments, no outsider really knows or understands the personal dynamics between BS and HS.
He does not seem like a 'loveable' husband to me. She tolerated him due to his income producing lifestyle.
I've witnessed numerous, affluent couples this age, who lived under the same roof but really lived separate lives.
Except for public appearances they did nothing together. Separate bedrooms, separate lives. I'd also like to hear more about the personal trainer coming to the house. Was he a romantic interest? Was BS jealous of him? Was HS
making plans for a new, more separate life?

I have a personal theory about money and business, learned from years in business- The more money you make, the more people are chasing you. More potential disagreements, more legal battles, just more people chasing you for $$$.

So, IMO, there are dozens of people who would like to have offed BS. He had crossed over into huge money deals
and huge potential outcomes. He said it himself, that he was surprised no one had snuffed out his lights. He knew
it was a potential result of his business practices. If true that he was ruthless in business, my guess is he was also
ruthless in his personal dealings with people. You don't normally switch that off and on.

Separate bedrooms? Where did that come from?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[pamelado2]

You have to assume that something tragic and horrific happened to the parents in order to put desperation for criminal act above the obvious answer of marital conflict that resulted in murder suicide.

Police were thorough and the family is acting like a bunch or of spoiled brats because they don't like the police conclusion. Family have made such a big show of posturing, complaining to the mayor and hiring a questionable lawyer and his retiree since they were delivered the bad news. One is left sitting on the edge of the seat waiting for any scrap of information that supports double murder ... but alas, it's not to be had. I hope the family doesn't spend too much money encouraging their "investigative" team to concoct conspiracy theories.

The police were thorough? Hardly. The "source" said they believed it was a murder-suicide, what?a day or 2 after the deaths? We have no idea why that was said or who said it! Only that it was NOT an official statement. It could have been said simply because they didn't see evidence of forced entry.

Of course, there is absolutely nothing that says suicide OR murder at this point unless a person is speculating over some tidbit from the media. However, looking at it logically I definitely lean towards murder:

The age/health of the victims (moving the body to the pool area, faking the hanging)
The placement of bodies (the bodies themselves and location)
The method of death (hanging instead of shooting, pills?)
The timing.
The eulogy - the son didn't HAVE to say all that he said, neither did Honey's sister. Their insight into the dynamic of that marriage was key, as far as I'm concerned.





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[Researchnut]

IMO The home/property was not gifted to Honey. It was transferred for 0 dollars to avoid excessive land transfer taxes, and for privacy.
https://www.ratehub.ca/land-transfer-tax

Barrys' money was not tied into Apotex, but rather into his own separate company.You have to be terrible at business in Canada not to separate your business interest/assests from your personal ones. That is one reason the property was transfred into Honeys name.

Rate of interest on 4 billion in Canada. The cost of the home is nothing to people who's personal wealth is over 3 billion dollars https://www.bankofcanada.ca/rates/related/investment-calculator/

Tax write offs in Canada http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/chrts-gvng/dnrs/svngs/clmng1b2-eng.html

Many of the costs of building a home can be written off against income in Canada.The next 2 links are not great,but you can look into this a little more.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/taxes/home-office-tax-writeoffs-can-generate-big-savings-1.1173308

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-ag...income/current-expenses-capital-expenses.html

The home they tore down was already a mansion by Canadian standards.https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.6995...UTScDc6w!2e0!5s20140401T000000!7i13312!8i6656

I'd personally love to see the tax records. They tell a great deal about an individual. Building a new home for wealthy people is stressful,but not finacially. IMO

 

[Tighthead]

IMO The home/property was not gifted to Honey. It was transferred for 0 dollars to avoid excessive land transfer taxes, and for privacy.
https://www.ratehub.ca/land-transfer-tax

Barrys' money was not tied into Apotex, but rather into his own separate company.You have to be terrible at business in Canada not to separate your business interest/assests from your personal ones. That is one reason the property was transfred into Honeys name.

Rate of interest on 4 billion in Canada. The cost of the home is nothing to people who's personal wealth is over 3 billion dollars https://www.bankofcanada.ca/rates/related/investment-calculator/

Tax write offs in Canada http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/chrts-gvng/dnrs/svngs/clmng1b2-eng.html

Many of the costs of building a home can be written off against income in Canada.The next 2 links are not great,but you can look into this a little more.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/taxes/home-office-tax-writeoffs-can-generate-big-savings-1.1173308

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-ag...income/current-expenses-capital-expenses.html

The home they tore down was already a mansion by Canadian standards.https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.6995...UTScDc6w!2e0!5s20140401T000000!7i13312!8i6656

I'd personally love to see the tax records. They tell a great deal about an individual. Building a new home for wealthy people is stressful,but not finacially. IMO

The zero transfer was for privacy. It’s not that simple or legal to evade taxes.

The write off you state for home office is for operation not construction. Regardless, it’s unappealing for wealthy people as you lose the capital gains exemption.

You say Barry’s wealth wasn’t tied to Apotex? How much of the company do you think was beneficially owned by Barry and his family - so direct holdings, holdcos and trusts?

 

[TTF14]

BBM, his reputation as a murderer?

If he did murder her, he probably assumed/hoped it would look like a suicide, therefore preserving his reputation as a murderer. I don't think anyone would stage a murder to look like a suicide and still assume it would be known that i twas a murder.

 

[enelram]

Separate bedrooms? Where did that come from?

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I was using examples of couples I have known. When they reached an age and financial bracket that it was extremely
complex and counter-productive to divorce, they just continued staying married, but lived separate lives. One couple
I've known actually built two mansions in the same neighborhood, still married, but not together personally.

 

[Tortoise]

If he did murder her, he probably assumed/hoped it would look like a suicide, therefore preserving his reputation as a murderer. I don't think anyone would stage a murder to look like a suicide and still assume it would be known that i twas a murder.

He was highly intelligent. If police could tell more or less immediately that she was moved to the noose after death or injury, he would have to be stupid not to realise they would, IMO.

 

[TTF14]

He was highly intelligent. If police could tell more or less immediately that she was moved to the noose after death or injury, he would have to be stupid not to realise they would, IMO.

Nobody ever said intelligence always means common sense!

 

[Starkville]

Something that sticks out to me is Israel

JMO but as a New Yorker with a social circle that’s about 50% Jewish, the Shermans seemed EXTRA connected to Israel. Not that I’m an expert of Jewish identity or culture, but I don’t know any Jews who attract protestors or have an Israeli flag at their funeral. I feel there’s a lot being unsaid regarding this angle.

The TEVA Pharmaceuticals tussle seems significant. Mossad is no stranger to Canadian business interests. If I were investigating, that’s where I’d be focused. I don’t see murder/suicide. I see a professional hit.

JMO

 

[Tortoise]

Something that sticks out to me is Israel

JMO but as a New Yorker with a social circle that’s about 50% Jewish, the Shermans seemed EXTRA connected to Israel. Not that I’m an expert of Jewish identity or culture, but I don’t know any Jews who attract protestors or have an Israeli flag at their funeral. I feel there’s a lot being unsaid regarding this angle.

The TEVA Pharmaceuticals tussle seems significant. Mossad is no stranger to Canadian business interests. If I were investigating, that’s where I’d be focused. I don’t see murder/suicide. I see a professional hit.

JMO

Yes, I've even wondered if the newcomer was planted. What better way to deflect double-agency than to accuse the company of spying on Teva. I could be totally off-base.

 

[conledavis]

Is there any evidence they met with an architect? Has he/she been heard from at all?

 

[Researchnut]

The zero transfer was for privacy. It’s not that simple or legal to evade taxes.

The write off you state for home office is for operation not construction. Regardless, it’s unappealing for wealthy people as you lose the capital gains exemption.

You say Barry’s wealth wasn’t tied to Apotex? How much of the company do you think was beneficially owned by Barry and his family - so direct holdings, holdcos and trusts?

IMO I think it was transfered for 0 dollars not only for privacy reasons. The Shermans would have had fantastic accountants.

Honey ran a not for profit too. In Canada that means zero taxes .

I'm really not sure which rebates they qualified for. I am personally terrible at doing my own taxes,and I do them myself as a business owner.Thought the links might provide information for someone looking into this.

My focus is still on the physical forensics and probability factors.

Did Honey have skin under her nails, additional injuries, drugs in her system etc. ?
Did Barry have wounds from Honey fighting him off?
If any of that evidence is present, I'll believe mudrer /suicide.
Double suicide by hanging of a rich couple has NEVER happened before.If so can someone please post this link. Cannot find one.
Reposting this link because it's packed full of statistics and worth the read . Has great links on the bottom of the paper.
http://eknygos.lsmuni.lt/springer/605/73-87.pdf

The stress of building a home is hard,but a reason to murder your spouse? I find that hard to fathom.JMO

 

[JDG]

Are you asking whether the seven million house they died in should be torn down? That would be as stupid as tearing down the house that the Sherman's destroyed in Forest Hills.

No, the several million dollar home with two swimming pools and nine bathrooms should not be torn down, eh.

Most murder scene homes are demolished, cost notwithstanding. A double/murder or suicide DOES affect the 'karma' and price of the house for the rest of its existence. In Ontario, those sorts of events must be divulged before a sale along with faults in the home.

The land value is mostly in the land in the TO area. It will just be a costly demolition due to being concrete and steel construction.