Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #3

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

SO if the bodies were found in a slightly sitting - or straightlegged position- how did they die from ligature neck compression from hanging?

Have you noticed they don't say it's from hanging - they say ligature neck compression. Which could mean strangulation with something else.

You don't have to be feet-off-the-ground hanging to hang yourself. All you need to do is lean. Apparently, you black out very quickly, then gravity keeps you in place.

Robin Williams is an example.

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[Tortoise]

SO if the bodies were found in a slightly sitting - or straightlegged position- how did they die from ligature neck compression from hanging?

Have you noticed they don't say it's from hanging - they say ligature neck compression. Which could mean strangulation with something else.

I've also been wondering about their positions and I have a different query.

Honey's torso length seems to be quite a bit shorter than Barry's. If the belts were Barry's, there would be a certain amount of leeway with waist adjustment holes for one belt to be tied longer than the other, but if say Honey was too short to lean onto the belt, maybe having her bottom raised off the ground, that is maybe another factor in them deciding that she didn't do it herself, with her arms restrained.

 

[Tortoise]

You don't have to be feet-off-the-ground hanging to hang yourself. All you need to do is lean. Apparently, you black out very quickly, then gravity keeps you in place.

Robin Williams is an example.

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About 10 seconds is what I've read. Quite long really if you count it out.

 

[andreww]

SO if the bodies were found in a slightly sitting - or straightlegged position- how did they die from ligature neck compression from hanging?

Have you noticed they don't say it's from hanging - they say ligature neck compression. Which could mean strangulation with something else.

Makes total sense. The railing looked to be about four feet off the ground. So in a kneeling position he fastened then belt around his neck, the rolled the jacket behind his arms. The jacket is crucial because the natural reaction would be to grab the railing and pull yourself up. Once all was set, he kicked his feet forward to a sitting position, and so long as his butt didn't contact the ground, the weight of his body would constrict him.

 

[matou]

No matter where the hangings took place in the home, people would still think it was a hit or a double murder that was staged. Some pretty far out thinking on here.

 

[andreww]

No matter where the hangings took place in the home, people would still think it was a hit or a double murder that was staged. Some pretty far out thinking on here.

Not sure that Barry's intent was to suggest a double murder. In fact, I'd guess the opposite, that he wanted a murder/suicide to appear to be a double suicide.

 

[Inthedetails]

Not sure that Barry's intent was to suggest a double murder. In fact, I'd guess the opposite, that he wanted a murder/suicide to appear to be a double suicide.

That's my working theory.

jmo

 

[andreww]

Someone asked me if Honey was in good health when she died. I don’t think Honey was ever in what could be called good health from the time I met her. And yet, between multiple back, hip, and shoulder surgeries for her crippling arthritis, to recently surviving throat cancer, Honey was the most fun-loving, energetic, and uncomplaining person I ever met.

I do wonder if Barry may have discovered Honey dead, committing suicide on her own, perhaps in a bedroom closet? Maybe Barry simply moves her to the pool area and mimics what she had already done?

 

[andreww]

That's my working theory.

jmo

My only problem with that is that if it were an act of rage it would be unlikely that he would use a belt. He would have used his hands and that would leave marks. Check my post above for an alternate scenario.

 

[Inthedetails]

I do wonder if Barry may have discovered Honey dead, committing suicide on her own, perhaps in a bedroom closet? Maybe Barry simply moves her to the pool area and mimics what she had already done?

Possibly, but from my impression of BS, I don't think he'd end his life so suddenly just because HS did. I do, however, think he might have ended his life so suddenly because he ended hers.

One theory among a few.

jmo

 

[Jasper52]

No matter where the hangings took place in the home, people would still think it was a hit or a double murder that was staged. Some pretty far out thinking on here.

We don't have enough facts to support any theory atm. jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

We don't have enough facts to support any theory atm. jmo

True. But we can form theories and then adjust as we learn more.

jmo

 

[Jealoushe]

Makes total sense. The railing looked to be about four feet off the ground. So in a kneeling position he fastened then belt around his neck, the rolled the jacket behind his arms. The jacket is crucial because the natural reaction would be to grab the railing and pull yourself up. Once all was set, he kicked his feet forward to a sitting position, and so long as his butt didn't contact the ground, the weight of his body would constrict him.

So how would his feet be straight out then? It's hard to picture that he wouldn't be sitting on the concrete, the railing isn't high and he is tall.

No matter where the hangings took place in the home, people would still think it was a hit or a double murder that was staged. Some pretty far out thinking on here.

and thank god for that, or else some things in the world would never be discovered The media has been lying to the public for decades, and people who can see beyond lies are what is going to save this place.

 

[Twinkle]

Any hints at alcohol abuse or seasonal affective disorder in Barry or Honey? I haven't read anything, has anyone else?


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[pamelado2]

So how would his feet be straight out then? It's hard to picture that he wouldn't be sitting on the concrete, the railing isn't high and he is tall.



and thank god for that, or else some things in the world would never be discovered The media has been lying to the public for decades, and people who can see beyond lies are what is going to save this place.

I disagree, the railing is tall - if a person were seated, even a tall person, their head wouldn't reach the railing.

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[tarabull]

I disagree, the railing is tall - if a person were seated, even a tall person, their head wouldn't reach the railing.

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Ed Zachery....so wouldn't that make it the ideal for hanging???? it's the same as your feet not touching, at least in my mind....i think lol

:moo: :cow:

 

[Jasper52]

True. But we can form theories and then adjust as we learn more.

jmo

I most certainly agree. You've taken my post out of context as I was replying to a post that stated "No matter where the hangings took place in the home, people would still think it was a hit or a double murder that was staged. Some pretty far out thinking on here."

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I've also been wondering about their positions and I have a different query.

Honey's torso length seems to be quite a bit shorter than Barry's. If the belts were Barry's, there would be a certain amount of leeway with waist adjustment holes for one belt to be tied longer than the other, but if say Honey was too short to lean onto the belt, maybe having her bottom raised off the ground, that is maybe another factor in them deciding that she didn't do it herself, with her arms restrained.

BBM

Good point. I also thought of 2 belts buckled together to make a longer loop so that when they leaned forward they were further downward which would have pulled their bottoms off the floor slightly. In other words leaning forward in that manner it would be harder to sit back up and take the pressure off in case he changed his mind or panic set in.

After all the guy was a billionaire, he had to own more than two belts, indeed he probably owned hundreds.

 

[Errrr]

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/chr...-screwed-up-investigation-into-sherman-deaths

Christie Blatchford’s latest.

She often writes on crime and justice matters. I assume she is well connected.

Readong between the lines, I would infer that her sources are saying murder suicide remains the likely conclusion of the investigation.

Must be really well connected if she can afford to call TPS a leaky ship!

 

[JDG]

If one buys the double suicide or murder/suicide scenario, they could have hung the belts/ropes from the railings, secured their arms with the jackets and then simply laid facedown placing heads into belt. the belts would obviously have been set to constrict their throats but gravity might do that....... It would explain the straight legged posture. I believe thats how L'Wren did it, from a doorknob.